Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[IslandTractor]

Island Tractor, If the fluid in a hydraulic close loop is prevented to circulate, the fluid will overheat. Take the case of my flail mower extender cylinder connected to the auxiliary control valve (a close loop system). Assuming I move the selector to B (see picture) and the cylinder extends to full travel, at this point it becomes a dead end for the oil (no return path to the sump). Pump pressure will build up in Port B as long as the selector is left in position B. To prevent an excessive pressure buildup the main relief valve will open, and bleed some oil back to the sump. However since the relief valve is a flow restrictor the oil will quickly overheat. With my Kioti 30 HST hydraulic system I will need to return the selector to N (Neutral) as soon as the cylinder has reached full extension or retraction. I had a firsthand bad experience with this phenomenon just after buying my tractor from an estate sale. No one was able to explain to me the peculiarity of the tractor and the closest dealer was more than 2 hours away from my location. I decided to remove the backhoe to service the tractor. I used the book that came with the backhoe to find the procedure, and followed the instructions to the letter. Upon removing the backhoe, I shut the tractor off and bled the pressure from the hydraulic lines by exercising each backhoe control lever. Then I disconnected the quick disconnects from Ports A and B at the back of the tractor (nowhere in the book did it mention to set the hydraulic selector to neutral). I restarted the tractor and pulled away, and drove it for almost 15 minutes until I saw smoke coming out of the Power Steering Unit (I had previously removed the instrument panel cover). I touched the steering unit and burnt my fingers. After talking with the dealer I understood the problem. By disconnecting Ports A and B without setting the auxiliary control lever to Neutral, I had interrupted the closed loop circuit and hence caused the relief valve to open and the oil to overheat. I immediately replaced the HST fluid and filters. So far the tractor has not displayed any permanent damage to the hydraulic system. I hope some (hydraulic) newbie will learn from of my mistake. Andre <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=457682"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=457683"/>

You are describing "deadheading" a hydraulic pump. I was using the term closed loop to describe a typical hydraulic circuit.

 

[Cataclysm]

Just scored an 8' flail off CL for $250 cash. From this thread it looks like an Alamo.

The good: All the bearings turn freely with no slack. 'Y' knives look great. All the seals look good with no leaks. Gear box seems tight.

The bad. Needs a drive shaft and needs the metal sides that hold the back roller reworked. And from reading on here a fresh belt.

Current plan is to rework it enough to make sure it a good unit then a functional rebuild and paint to match my up coming LS 4155HC.

Any guesses if the 55hp LS will run it?

In my area no one hardly even knows what a flail mower is. This is the first one Ive ever seen in person

Oh and thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I learned a lot and it has inspired me to give this flail a try.

 

[Alien]

In my area no one hardly even knows what a flail mower is. This is the first one Ive ever seen in person

Same here. But after lots of research I decided it was the only way to go. Have fun.

 

[sodamo]

Sounds like a good deal. If I ever saw one for that price here on CL it would likely be ready for the scrap yard. Took me less than 2 hrs to sell my Value Leader on CL and when the guy picked it up and paid me he remarked what a great deal it was. He has been rehabbing and selling tractors/implements over 20 years here.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[leonz]

Just scored an 8' flail off CL for $250 cash. From this thread it looks like an Alamo.

The good: All the bearings turn freely with no slack. 'Y' knives look great. All the seals look good with no leaks. Gear box seems tight.

The bad. Needs a drive shaft and needs the metal sides that hold the back roller reworked. And from reading on here a fresh belt.

Current plan is to rework it enough to make sure it a good unit then a functional rebuild and paint to match my up coming LS 4155HC.

Any guesses if the 55hp LS will run it?

In my area no one hardly even knows what a flail mower is. This is the first one Ive ever seen in person

I will post pics when I figure out how.

Oh and thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I learned a lot and it has inspired me to give this flail a try.

======================================================================


I want to welcome you as the newest member of the flail mower nations; no passport is required to enter or leave the beer garden at the border crossing nor are there any member address rosters kept or nor taxes collected-HATE BLACK HELICOPTERS.

You are among friends so ask any questions about flail mowers that you think you need to ask. NO you do not need the PTO Shafts with the slip clutches for this flail mower.


Your LS should have no problems powering the flail mower you have as long as you spend the time needed reading how you should operate your tractor at much lower speeds when mowing in high grass/brush. I will be back later.....




Please order a catalog from flail master as you will be able to obtain most rear roller parts for most models from them rather than having them fabricated locally.


Be sure to buy the kevlar replacement belts for it. they are more shock resistant than the black V belts

 

[Kiotidriver]

You are describing "deadheading" a hydraulic pump. I was using the term closed loop to describe a typical hydraulic circuit.

Island Tractor
泥ead-heading the system occurs when the fluid in a system is prevented from flowing and the pressure in the system reaches a maximum value.
Therefore I dead-headed my hydraulic pump when I disconnected the lines from my backhoe without setting the Auxiliary Control Valve to Neutral, and the same would happens if I was to actuate a cylinder using the ACV rear ports and keeping the pressure on the cylinder piston. The point I知 trying to make is if you stop the flow of oil in a closed loop, you will be dead-heading the pump. I don稚 think we are disagreeing on this point? Are we?

PS: I didn't really dead-head the pump because the relief valve opened.

 

[IslandTractor]

Island Tractor
“Dead-heading” the system occurs when the fluid in a system is prevented from flowing and the pressure in the system reaches a maximum value.
Therefore I dead-headed my hydraulic pump when I disconnected the lines from my backhoe without setting the Auxiliary Control Valve to Neutral, and the same would happens if I was to actuate a cylinder using the ACV rear ports and keeping the pressure on the cylinder piston. The point I’m trying to make is if you stop the flow of oil in a closed loop, you will be dead-heading the pump. I don’t think we are disagreeing on this point? Are we?

Agree. But the only way to stop the flow is to "deadhead". If I attach a simple loop from one port to the other that doesn't deadhead. Indeed, to prevent what you did, the simplest solution is to have a short piece of hose with appropriate male QCs on each side and simply plug those into the ports that the BH uses. Then it doesn't matter if you forget to change the position of the remote control lever.

 

[Kiotidriver]

Agree. But the only way to stop the flow is to "deadhead". If I attach a simple loop from one port to the other that doesn't deadhead. Indeed, to prevent what you did, the simplest solution is to have a short piece of hose with appropriate male QCs on each side and simply plug those into the ports that the BH uses. Then it doesn't matter if you forget to change the position of the remote control lever.

Great suggestion! I will just do that. Thank you very much

 

[Cataclysm]

======================================================================


I want to welcome you as the newest member of the flail mower nations; no passport is required to enter or leave the beer garden at the border crossing nor are there any member address rosters kept or nor taxes collected-HATE BLACK HELICOPTERS.

You are among friends so ask any questions about flail mowers that you think you need to ask. NO you do not need the PTO Shafts with the slip clutches for this flail mower.


Your LS should have no problems powering the flail mower you have as long as you spend the time needed reading how you should operate your tractor at much lower speeds when mowing in high grass/brush. I will be back later.....




Please order a catalog from flail master as you will be able to obtain most rear roller parts for most models from them rather than having them fabricated locally.


Be sure to buy the kevlar replacement belts for it. they are more shock resistant than the black V belts

Thanks for the info! I can't wait to get the belt cover off and see if there is a data plate! I think the mower would work now with a DS but the passenger side roller bearing looks to be in a bind and I don't want to kill it.

 

[IslandTractor]

Great suggestion! I will just do that. Thank you very much

FYI, I made mine with about 12 inches of 1/4" hose, 90 degree angle and necessary 1/4 to 3/8 adapters to 1/2 Pioneer QC male fittings. That gives you a flexible small length of hose that lays flat against the back of the tractor rather than sticking out where it could snag. I'll try to find a photo.

 

[Hoochy]

Cataclysm that is one heck of a deal on your flail mower:thumbsup: I spoke with Alamo recently and downloaded a free parts catalog from their website. They do not sell parts retail, you will have to go thru a dealer and you can find the nearest to you on the website as well.

Here is the link

Alamo Industrial: Products - Flail Mowers > Super Heavy Duty Flail

 

[Jack Yuan]

Aloha Andre

Have to pretty much agree with the previous posters. I found the hydraulic toplink most useful early on when mowing areas that likely had never been mowed before. With my new flail I don't anticipate needing as much unless I start mowing virgin areas again. I did get a couple hours in today and the fixed link in the slot did well. I did note that the new mower hangs differently on my tractor and noticed the balance was different on the slopes. Probably good in that I will pay attention, adjust my operation rather than be complacent. Given my terrain, I'm feeling that the 78inch is likely the max I can use, still possible one skid or the other might be a bit lower and make a cut if I'm not careful. I could avoid some of that with the hydraulic toplink, easy to adjust in those certain spots rather than lifting with the 3point. I did find the hydraulic offset interesting to use. Quite helpful in some area, like getting closer under tree branches, but a bit challenging at full offset along my fence line due to the variations in the fence and the various plantings. I have a few areas where the thought of a tilt cylinder are enticing, but not enough to overcome my budget. I am looking at the possibility of a 2nd function diverter. I have the double remotes on my CK30 but not my DX35. I don't envision mounting this flail on the Kioti, but keep it on the DX.

View attachment 457630View attachment 457631

Hi David,

I m glad that your are choosing a Chinese flail mower, I m proud for this since I m from China.
Here is my suggestion, the EFGC and EFGCH, these two flail mower, they are using same rotor shaft, it use Chinese seamless steel tube, model Q235A, its outer diamater is 108mm and thickness is 8mm. According to our experience over years, we recommend 1750mm at most which mean EFGC175 and EFGCH175, the longer the mower is, the higher potential risk will be that rotor shaft will meet problem after years. So if your flail mower need to replace new rotor shaft some years later, you can call my friend in California for help.

By the way, could you take some photos about the hammer on your EFGCH mower? Because we all used casting hammer in the past, now the trend here is using forging hammer, so I would like to see what hammer this factory is using now. Thank you in advance.

 

[Cataclysm]

Cataclysm that is one heck of a deal on your flail mower:thumbsup: I spoke with Alamo recently and downloaded a free parts catalog from their website. They do not sell parts retail, you will have to go thru a dealer and you can find the nearest to you on the website as well.

Here is the link

Alamo Industrial: Products - Flail Mowers > Super Heavy Duty Flail

Thanks!! You guys are awesome!!

I got a chance to start on the Alamower. Ya, we gave it a name. So far so good. Everything on the drive side looked great. Only a slight amount of play in the idler bearing. The belt actually looks pretty good but I am going to get a new Kevlar belt as suggested.

I am almost done welding up the fatigued side plate. From what I can tell the non drive side took a good hit on the corner. That slightly bent the lower part inward bowing the side plate. That let the machine vibration start working the plate around the rear roller bearing retainer. Its got a fair amount cracks running around the side plate. Here's a shot of the cracks.



And the weld up.



And an added stiffener.



Tomorrow I'll weld up the inside of the cracks and see if any of the local farm supply company's have a drive shaft. Looks like it needs to be about 42" long.

 

[Fallon]

Just scored an 8' flail off CL for $250 cash. From this thread it looks like an Alamo.

The good: All the bearings turn freely with no slack. 'Y' knives look great. All the seals look good with no leaks. Gear box seems tight.

The bad. Needs a drive shaft and needs the metal sides that hold the back roller reworked. And from reading on here a fresh belt.

Current plan is to rework it enough to make sure it a good unit then a functional rebuild and paint to match my up coming LS 4155HC.

Any guesses if the 55hp LS will run it?

In my area no one hardly even knows what a flail mower is. This is the first one Ive ever seen in person

Oh and thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I learned a lot and it has inspired me to give this flail a try.

My 32hp (25? PTO) runs my 7' fine on Colorado pasture. You should be fine.

My 917 has the pivots at the bottom lift links rather than the top. But it does have the facilities for articulation there. I still like leaving my toplink in float as it gives me a lot more articulation that does get used a bit.

I keep seeing others talk about adjustable roller or skid height. The brackets for the roller on my 917 are 1 solid cast piece & non adjustable. Easy enough to set the height with the 3pt though. You'd have to get the toplink length dialed in pretty good to get proper articulation with a standard toplink. I love the lazy factor on my TnT setup.

I had to get a new PTO shaft for my $100 find as well. Figured out what class of shaft I needed & ordered it off Amazon as the local TSC didn't have what I needed. It has a sheer bolt which is useless (belts do the same function). Best $500 (or so, about $400 in PTO shaft, knives, belts etc) I've spent since the Tractor & TnT. The old beatup patched up ugly flail is better than my well functioning rotary cutter I got brand new. Not knocking my LandPride rotary, just love my flails functionality a lot more.

 

[xtn]

I'm surprised your mower doesn't have a slot. Ideally the topping lift should be to a slot. That allows the mower to adjust automatically to slight variations in terrain and keeps the rear roller on the ground where it should be. The topping lift is mostly irrelevant for flail mowing as you'd use the 3PT arms to lift over an obstruction or for travel. Chain would work but you'd need to get the length right so you could lift for transport and to clear obstructions.

I have found my preference pulling my Caroni to have the top link fixed without using the slot...adjusted just far enough back to lift the front of the mower's side skids about an inch off the ground as measured during setup on a flat, level driveway...keeping the weight mostly on the rear roller. I find that this reduces the rutting caused by the side skids, and more importantly the side drag on my 3-point arms when turning. I still lift the mower for very sharp turns, but this way I don't have to lift it just for larger arcs.

Although this configuration doesn't allow the mower to "rock" back and forth at all, it still rides up and down over terrain just fine, owing to the fact that my 3-point arms are free to go up and down even though their geometry with the mower is fixed. Okay, sure, it isn't going to track to a 1/4" accuracy over small undulations, but it's dang close enough that I can't tell any practical difference in the result.

And sure, if I actually catch it on something a lot closer to vertical, like a tree stump or something, it's going to be a problem. But I doubt that a couple inches of slack in the top link connection is going to help with that scenario.

Just my opinion, formed after trying out a few different setup configurations.

 

[Cataclysm]

I made it out to the shop early today and got the inner welding finished and the flail put back together. I loaded up the MF tractor/flail and headed to TSC where I got the new drive shaft.

Just as we were headed back I got a call that my new LS XR4155HC was ready for pickup! So we dropped off the MF and flail and went and picked up the LS. We got the LS home and quickly switched the flail over and fitted the drive shaft. Here's a couple of action shots with the new LS and somewhat rebuilt Alamo flail.





The 4155 easily handles the 1000 plus pound flail on the back lift. I cut some rough pasture with small brush as well and the LS had plenty of power to keep the big Alamo spinning fast. Of note is the fact that the blades look pretty good but the hole where the clevis goes is worn/elongated to the point the knives are slightly hitting the deck. I was really hoping the flail would do a better cut on the small 1" brush. Right now it leaves tire killing stakes just like a rotary cutter.

I think that a new set of heavy hammers along with a new Kevlar belt is in order. I would like this to be a heavy grass/weeds/1" brush mulching pasture reclaiming monster.

Overall though the flail is a keeper. That 7'5" cut really shines!

 

[Cataclysm]

New set of heavy forged blades and belt on the way from flailmaster.com!

 

[leonz]

New set of heavy forged blades and belt on the way from flailmaster.com!

Hello Cataclysm,

I am glad to see your new to you flail mower is in good hands.

Did You order knife hangers to have spares?? I hope...

About your problematic brush monsters in your pasture;
you can back over the clumps while mowing and drive forward
and make quick work of that brush clump monster. Island tractor
has some very nice before and after pictures when dealing with
brush monster clumps.

 

[Cataclysm]

Ha ha! Thanks! No, I didnt think to get some hangers. Ill get some headed this way.

It does help to back over them a couple of times. Im looking forward to trying the heavy blades.

From flail mowing this morning I did discover a fast new way to roll barbed wire!

 

[Hoochy]

Cataclysm, all sounds great. I am in the same situation where nobody around here was that familiar with flail mowers but once they saw mine in action, they were astonished. They really do a great job.

A note on your belt, I am not familiar with the belt that flailmaster sells. That being said, I bought a non OEM belt from fleabay, and although it works, it is a bit shorter than the OEM belt and it makes it impossible to attach the belt guard. I kept that belt for spare/emergency but I also purchased an OEM belt.
I was going to tell you about my experience but I got tied up with life and I hope the one you have ordered works for you. I did write a post on this thread about it a few pages back.
Enjoy your new mower....I am on the lookout for a bigger one 88 or 96. So far, fleabay has a couple but price and shipping puts them out of my budget range.
Hoochy