Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[IslandTractor]

HI Guys,
Thanks for your input. So I am concluding from what has been said is that the fine vs the rough has as much to do with the spacing of the blades as it does the style of the blades, is that correct?
I attached a picture of some blades which I though were Y style, but now I am not sure. Can you identify the style from this photo?
View attachment 236803]

I'd call those cup style myself. You cannot see the front of the blade but I presume they are one piece rather than two blades per hanger. Those are mostly used for grass cutting but I would think that light brushhogging would be fine and certainly pasture mowing would be fine so long as the pasture was mowed at least once a year or so.

 

[dieselscout80]

Ok, thanks,
Do they cut ok in higher grass?
nck

I think they do, but my 917 is the only falil mower I've ever used.

I can tell when they are dull. I use a 4.5" grinder to sharpen them.

 

[nckennedy]

Oh Ok.
So the thin front end of the cup hits the grass first and then forces the grass to split into pieces when it hits the tails of the cup I guess. Seems like if would really do a job on grass. Can you sharen cups?
A JD dealer is asking about $2000 for the 8 ft. wide unit made by Bush Hog. It would go nicely behind my JD with 7.5 rear wheel spread. What do you think of the price?
Suggestions?
NCK

 

[leonz]

The cup knives you have have a thin cutting
edge on them.

The grass slicer/knives you have were stamped and
holes punched in one pass and then formed/bent to
create the loop to hang it on the ring hanger for
the flail mower.

You can sharpen the edge of the knive with a
file, hand grinder or wet stone grinder depending
on the quality of the edge you want to see.


You might want to check with Agri Supply - Farm Supplies, Tools, Lawn Mower Blades, Cast Iron Cookware as they have a hydraulic side shift for thier Caroni flailmowers that will extend and retract thier reach while mowing. Several of the memebrs have the side shift option and are very happy with it.

Please check with Island Tractor about his Caroni flail mower as well.

 

[SuperCobra]

Well, I joined the flail mower nation today - picked up what I believe is a Mott 72 for $300. It well used. It will need new roller bearings, knives, and a belt guard at a minimum. It looks like it is also missing (I think) a belt tensioner pully but I didn't experience any slippage in the hour I was using it today so maybe it isn't needed. When I got it home I moved some knives around to balance areas that were missing knives and despite them being extremely worn, it actually did a decent job cutting grass.

However, I was dissappointed that it wouldn't pick-up oak leaves off the ground and shred them. I was hoping it would as that is part of the reason I got it. I had asked previously in this thread if flail mowers would do this and got a few positive responses. Granted I asked specifically about the ASC Caroni model but I ran across this used Mott for what I think is a great price. Maybe it depends upon the knives? My Mott fine cut (with well used grass blades) basically just rolled right over them and left them intact.

So here is my question, as you can see from the pictures, it has some rusted through sheet metal and is missing the rubber rear flap. Would this make a difference in the airflow? Would patching up the holes and adding a flap increase the suction for lifting leaves? Also, does the style of blade matter? I'm not looking for heavy brush cutting, justgrass, weeds, and (hopefully) billions of leaves.

So far I have only found two types of blades for these Motts: the long (~5") Y blades and shorter Y blades that hang from clips and D rings. It looks like the shape of the cutting knives are basically the same with the only differences in the two styles being an extra pivot point on the latter style. What is the benefit having more "danglies" with the latter style? Are they worth the extra parts and cost? It looks like both styles are for fine cut grass. What does the extra pivot point give me? More lift/suction? Both styles can be seen here (102086 for the original long knives and a combo of 101993, the ring 101991, and the clips - not sure which one - for the other style):

MONTAGE ENTERPRISES - MOTT FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES, ALAMO FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES

Thanks in advance,
Randy

 

[IslandTractor]

Maybe there is a Mott owner who can answer your question about leaf mulching directly. I can only say that as you need to create a local vacuum to pick leaves up that the missing rear flap could well have a negative effect on mulching. You want to keep things spinning under the mower not leaking out the back immediately.

Regarding the knives with an extra shackle, tht is a common set up for "heavy duty" or brush cutting rather than finish mowing. The extra pivot point gives the blade extra freedom to pivot when it hits an uncuttable obstruction.

 

[beppington]

However, I was dissappointed that it wouldn't pick-up oak leaves off the ground and shred them. I was hoping it would as that is part of the reason I got it. I had asked previously in this thread if flail mowers would do this and got a few positive responses. Granted I asked specifically about the ASC Caroni model but I ran across this used Mott for what I think is a great price. Maybe it depends upon the knives? My Mott fine cut (with well used grass blades) basically just rolled right over them and left them intact.

My dad has the Caroni, but I don't remember it seeming to have much of a vacuum or lifting effect to lift leaves. It seems to only cut things that are already up high enough to be hit by the blades.

Unlike a mower blade, these "Y" shaped flail knives don't have any tilted flat surface(s) to act like a fan blade to provide the vacuum/ lifting action.

 

[KennyV]

I have a mott... when set up correct, It will eat up leaves and anything else on the grass.
You will need to use the rear roller And the top link to set the cutting height. There will be a balance between getting the mower at the right angle, using the top link and adjusting the roller to get the cut height right...
Once you have the settings correct for your tractor you will love the mott finish grooming blades you have on it.... KennyV

 

[leonz]

Well, I joined the flail mower nation today - picked up what I believe is a Mott 72 for $300. It well used. It will need new roller bearings, knives, and a belt guard at a minimum. It looks like it is also missing (I think) a belt tensioner pully but I didn't experience any slippage in the hour I was using it today so maybe it isn't needed. When I got it home I moved some knives around to balance areas that were missing knives and despite them being extremely worn, it actually did a decent job cutting grass.

However, I was dissappointed that it wouldn't pick-up oak leaves off the ground and shred them. I was hoping it would as that is part of the reason I got it. I had asked previously in this thread if flail mowers would do this and got a few positive responses. Granted I asked specifically about the ASC Caroni model but I ran across this used Mott for what I think is a great price. Maybe it depends upon the knives? My Mott fine cut (with well used grass blades) basically just rolled right over them and left them intact.

So here is my question, as you can see from the pictures, it has some rusted through sheet metal and is missing the rubber rear flap. Would this make a difference in the airflow? Would patching up the holes and adding a flap increase the suction for lifting leaves? Also, does the style of blade matter? I'm not looking for heavy brush cutting, justgrass, weeds, and (hopefully) billions of leaves.

So far I have only found two types of blades for these Motts: the long (~5") Y blades and shorter Y blades that hang from clips and D rings. It looks like the shape of the cutting knives are basically the same with the only differences in the two styles being an extra pivot point on the latter style. What is the benefit having more "danglies" with the latter style? Are they worth the extra parts and cost? It looks like both styles are for fine cut grass. What does the extra pivot point give me? More lift/suction? Both styles can be seen here (102086 for the original long knives and a combo of 101993, the ring 101991, and the clips - not sure which one - for the other style):

MONTAGE ENTERPRISES - MOTT FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES, ALAMO FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES

Thanks in advance,
Randy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I wish to welcome our newest member Randy to the Flail Mower Nation.


Flailmowers like rotary mowers-UGH!! have difficulty with wet packed leaves in very few cases.


If you reduce you speed you will be able to shred leaves. Be sure the rear roller is set to maintain about an inch of clearance AT THE KNIVE TIP to the sod for leaf shredding until you have the repairs done


It appears that the conventional V belt was replaced with a COG belt as there is no tensioner pulleyand the ension spring is missing-UGH!!!


With the rubber flap gone it reduces the rotor and knives ability to create a pressure gradient/suction to pull the leaves up with the verticut created by the grass slicers.


The pressure gradient is created when the grass slicers are at thier closest point to the ground creating the lift needed to pull the leaves and grass up with the rubber flap creating the dam for the maintenance of a pressure gradient.


The longer grass slicers are a plus or minus issue for flail mowers as it permits the manufacturer to use smaller diameter rotor/balanced weldment/thinner grass slicer knives, rather than a larger diameter drum with knive station weldments attached and then the drum is balanced with welded on balance weights like an engine crankshaft.

It is also better to allow the top link to float a bit to allw the mower to follow the ground contour more effectively as mentioned previously.



The last issue is rotor speed as the flailmower will run best at the engine speed required for the 540 R.P.M., Rear Power Take Off Speed for the mounted implement without lugging the engine.



Welcome to the Flail Mower Nation. Only 17,993 mowers to go.


_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[KennyV]

I'm going to assume that the pictures you posted are your knives... You have No verticut blades in your set... you are running the standard Mott fine cut finish blades.

Set these blades at the level you want to cut the grass, Not above the grass..... the longer grass and everything On the grass will be chopped up and pulverized..
I have ran Mott flails with and Without rear flaps... the flap has nothing to do with the cut... it is there to keep large pieces from being shot out the rear, and injuring something...
You can shred leaves with or without it. Since I used mine only as a finish mower, Not a rough cut mower, I have no need for the rubber rear flap... It will work perfectly without it...
If you are mowing a relatively level area... do not run with the top link loose, it is an important part of setting the angle of the mower as the whole thing pivots from the rear roller... You have a lot of time to experiment with the placement of the roller And the top link to establish cut height And over all cut quality... you will find what works with your set up...

Unlike rear mount rotary finish mowers, that only need to be set up once, then will mow about the same regardless of what you are towing and spinning them with.. a flail uses the top link to perfectly adjust the mower... and will over time iron out any area less than completely level, ...

If your belt set up is not slipping, it will work fine... your running a 'finish mower' set...
Happy mowing, get a new set of knives, pins and keys... reverse the knives every other year and you will be thrilled with that Mott... KennyV

 

[SuperCobra]

Thanks for all of the replies. I was hoping to be able to pick up and shred the leaves from bare ground but that may not be possible unless I adjust the blades all of the way down to dirt level. I'll experiment once I get it all back together.

 

[leonz]

The lowest setting for the rear roller guage
is the maximum amount you can lower the
flailmower and you will have excellent results.

You can also purchase dethatching blades for
your mower as well if you want to dethatch
your lawn.



_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[tpulley]

First let me say wow... I have never, ever, ever followed a thread all the way through with the length this one has. Being ADD I had to space it out over a few days but I did it. I also wanted to add that I enjoyed the little pieces of information tucked here and there.

Makes me want to buy a flail mower... Saw on someones sig, once you go flail you won't go back... Sounds like he has heard a lot of success stories.

After some questions posted to Island guy I think I am going Caroni. No shipping as I live about 25 mins from their Garner NC, Store. Will have to see how it goes. I don't really need it now and I am hoping I could find one on sale somewhere?

 

[leonz]

First let me say wow... I have never, ever, ever followed a thread all the way through with the length this one has. Being ADD I had to space it out over a few days but I did it. I also wanted to add that I enjoyed the little pieces of information tucked here and there.

Makes me want to buy a flail mower... Saw on someones sig, once you go flail you won't go back... Sounds like he has heard a lot of success stories.

After some questions posted to Island guy I think I am going Caroni. No shipping as I live about 25 mins from their Garner NC, Store. Will have to see how it goes. I don't really need it now and I am hoping I could find one on sale somewhere?

There are lot of good used flailmowers for sale on Tractor House, Auction Time, Wengers of Myerstown and many other places but having the warranty is a blessing if there is a problem as you have rights as purchaser of said goods in the state of purchase .


Yes sir, Yup, I love My flailmower even though it is small one.

Make sure you buy the dip stick extension or buy the parts from a hydraulic repair shop or mcmaster to make the extension.

If you have a pair of rear remotes the side shift kit is a blessing to save time.

It is a purchase you will not regret as the turf quality is superb after mowing and ity stripes at no extra charge.

The safety factor is much greater especially with close housing, roadways, and 2 and 4 legged rug rats running around not paying attension.


_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[denmeck]

Considering buying a 59' Ford 861 powermaster. Would need a mower as well. Does anyone know if a TM1900BSC - 75" Caroni Flail Mower would work with this tractor setup? It has live PTO from what I've been told and power steering, but not sure if that PTO would be compatible with this flail mower. Don't know much about tractors. thx...Denmeck

 

[leonz]

I see no reason why it would not be compatable.

My father ran his Ford Jubilee with a 7 foot
John Deere finish flail for years.

_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not ar all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[Solinski]

Another positive report on flail mowers. Today while shopping for a new tractor at Lane Tractor in Los Molinos Ca., another prospective tractor buyer and I were comparing tractor details. The discussion led to mowers. My new tractor buddy said that his best friend cuts grass along roads for local municipalities and private land owners. He said that his friend started his business with rough terrain rotary cutters and gradually moved into flail cutters as an experiment, now he uses only flail mowers for all cutting jobs. I am still in the research phase of rotary vs flail mower, but I am leaning towards a flail mower. I am considering the Braber Equip. "AgriEase 68 inch model BE-EFG175", (hammer cutters). If all works out this will be part of a package deal with the LS G3033 tractor. Anyone have personal experience with or heard :thumbsupositive or :thumbdown:negatives concerning the AgriEase flail mower? I'll list the details of my :cloud9:new tractor package and pricing on the LS tractor discussion.
Solinski

 

[leonz]

Happy New Year,


If the Braber flailmower is a rebranded
Masscio or other Italian manufactured flailmower
I will feel better about your purchase but:


As you are in the Golden State,
I personally would rather see
you purchase a Vrisimo, John Deere
or Caroni flail mower as you can more
easiliy obtain service.

The biggest thing you have remember is this
when looking at any flailmower the amount of steel
in the mower shroud and the welds that are used to
construct the mower are the backbone of a flailmower.


That is why when you see a newer/used John Deere flailmower
at auction they are fought over in biddding and always
go high if not sold before hand.


This is why I would rather see you purchase new a Caroni,
John Deere, or Vrisimo flailmower for the money.

All you need to do is maintain one of these mowers and they
will last longer than your tractor.

If your dealer is evasive about answers, purchase a small Deere or a Vrisimo
grass duty flail mower and you will not lose any money as they will retain thier value and are very well built as well.

The other thing is the Vrisimo folks have reconditioned units for sale if I remember correctly.

 

[Solinski]

Hi Leonz, Thanks for info.! Of the flail mowers you suggested I think the Caroni is the only flail in my price range of under $2,000. I would post photo's of the AgriEase flail but my computer "photo gallery" has mysteriously disappeared. The Caroni seems fairly popular on "Flail Mower Nation".
Solinski

 

[leonz]

If you do not need to mow yet-

Check on tractor house and the other sites often and you will see a VRISIMO or John Deere come up from dispersals and trades in you half of the country.

Happy New Year



_________________________________________________________________

Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:
Pronovost or not at all!!!:thumbsup::licking::drool: