Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[JimCan]

Cessnadriver... My 40hp J-D runs my Caroni mower pretty well. Before this tractor, I had a Ferguson 40, and I am pretty confident the J-D has more muscle. Both had H/L trans. I usually run the Caroni in 2L. If the weeds are waist high, 1L.

I did something stoopid from the beginning; I thought the Caroni was set at a fixed level and I ran it for almost two seasons waaay too low, for my needs. I jacked up the skids and tilted it back to attempt to raise it. I finally found 蛯*y looking underneath it was adjustable! I also got new belts. I'll plan on keeping a better eye on them. I still love this mower. That J-D mower CAD has sure looks nice, but too large for me.

Jim

 

[jthibodeau89]

After seeing the talk about these flail mowers, I've been thinking about one. I always thought these things cost $10 grand and up. I could do with one for a lot less than that if they work. Currently I'm using a JD2020, 54 pto HP, with a 7' NH 451 sickle bar. I don't have a rake or baler. Which means that to cut the fields 3 times a year, I have to wait for mostly very dry conditions, there's always a lot of chaff in the fields. I currently cut about 20 acres on not very flat ground (foothills of the Blue Ridge) and a fair amount of trees, outcrop rocks, etc. which takes me about 4-5 hours per 10 acre field on 2 sides of a stream. There are no level spots, everything is on the side of a hill from the stream up. I was wondering if I should pick up a 68' or so and see how it works. $2000 is not that much and if it needs a few mods, I can deal with that, I can't deal with $10K.

This year is especially horrendous with all the rain we've had, it's hard to mow between storms and the grass is tall and the weeds have come up under the grass. But I've got the mower moving through the stuff even if it's wet. Only thing is once in a while it bogs down in the cutters and I have to back up to clear it.

I'd still use the NH to get on the banks and under the tree lines. Are these things really worth the money? I've read that back roller is too small, but the soil here is generally pretty hard unless I get in a swampy/spring area which is impossible to get into this year anyhow.

With 54 pto HP a JD390 will work fine. It isnt a light weight at 1300lbs, but mine cuts great behind my AA5670 4wd 70hp tractor. My cutting needs are almost the same as yours as we are at the base of a plateau with 200' of elevation rise on 48ac. If the weight isn't an issue i would recommend the 390 over the 25A. I have both. I paid $700 for the 25A with it needing a set of blades and $3500 for the 390 with 10hrs and still glossy paint. The 390 had features on the ends of the rotor to prevent grass wrap. After the blade replacement, and now bearing repair due to grass wrap, I will have about $1000 invested in the 25A.

 

[def38]

I did the same, after reading on here about the complaints. Its not a big deal, just makes you wonder why they didn't do it that way when made. I concur on the damp grass statement as well. Otherwise I find it to cut quite well.

I've got mine pushed back pretty far at the top link so as to keep the rear roller in ground contact and to give me a 3-4 inch cut height. I also have a few rocks and Buick hubcaps that I must avoid. My side skids rarely touch the ground. I changed gearbox oil once and found no smut on the drain plug. I haven't changed shaft oil as yet. I do get some blowout of the GL-5 oil from the shaft oil filler/vent but, not enough to require frequent top up. This winter, I'll remove and sharpen the hammer flails just to have something to do.


So far, I am pleased with this mower and I bought it at its lowest price. I would buy it again however, I see the prices for most all implements from Titan have increased in price recently, likely the result of the tariffs. I also have their landscape rake and drag harrow.

 

[Kscessnadriver]

I've got mine pushed back pretty far at the top link so as to keep the rear roller in ground contact and to give me a 3-4 inch cut height. I also have a few rocks and Buick hubcaps that I must avoid. My side skids rarely touch the ground. I changed gearbox oil once and found no smut on the drain plug. I haven't changed shaft oil as yet. I do get some blowout of the GL-5 oil from the shaft oil filler/vent but, not enough to require frequent top up. This winter, I'll remove and sharpen the hammer flails just to have something to do.


So far, I am pleased with this mower and I bought it at its lowest price. I would buy it again however, I see the prices for most all implements from Titan have increased in price recently, likely the result of the tariffs. I also have their landscape rake and drag harrow.

Likewise, I've rarely end up with the skids on the ground, usually somewhere very uneven ground. I also noticed the prices creeping up, I fortunately picked it up right before they went up. I had been looking at getting a second larger tractor anyway at this point (as I'd like to get into baling hay on my property as well).

 

[AGTtactical]

Its good to know you can keep the skids off the ground. I'm concerned about scalping... I think flail mowers should do a better job than any other type of mower. Finish mowers have a large part of the deck sticking out beyond the wheels, while a flail mower rides closer to the rear tires, and has a roller which runs the length of the housing. Woodmax recommends tilting the front of the mower up 10-15 degrees, and the roller can be lowered in back too.

Do you guys think flails reduce scalping better than other mowers?

 

[AGTtactical]

I've got mine pushed back pretty far at the top link so as to keep the rear roller in ground contact and to give me a 3-4 inch cut height. I also have a few rocks and Buick hubcaps that I must avoid. My side skids rarely touch the ground.

Good to hear about the no scalping thing!!

 

[def38]

Its good to know you can keep the skids off the ground. I'm concerned about scalping... I think flail mowers should do a better job than any other type of mower. Finish mowers have a large part of the deck sticking out beyond the wheels, while a flail mower rides closer to the rear tires, and has a roller which runs the length of the housing. Woodmax recommends tilting the front of the mower up 10-15 degrees, and the roller can be lowered in back too.

Do you guys think flails reduce scalping better than other mowers?

Regarding scalping? In a word, yes. I believe that tilting the mower as Woodmax (and others) recommend has major benefit and helps all but eliminate scalping. It easily controls the cut height as well.

 

[leonz]

Good morning AGTactical,

A flail mower does reduce scalping due to the full width rear roller.

It is supported and strengthened by two pieces of square tube stock welded to the flail mower shroud in the front and the rear of the flail mower above the rear roller.

This strengthens the mower as the side weldments also have full welds connecting the flail mower shroud to eliminate flexing and wracking which belly mowers are prone to do even with heavy welded mowers.

The gauge wheels are also used as anti scalp wheels by some manufacturers.

These wheel sets and the weldment's in the front and rear of the belly mowers on some manufacterers lawn mowers are the weak link and are not attached well with strong pivot weldments like the ones used on rotary cutters and wing mowers and are more prone to being stressed by the ground contours that are being mowed.

Mowing along and on a small slope with a 15 degree ascent angle also lets the mowers landing gear become bound up over time due to excess wear based on my experience with wheel horse lawn tractors.

You have to understand that by raising the flail mower using the top link does 2 things:

1. it raises the center line of the flail mower rotor higher above the ground

2. the act of raising the flail mower above "level" being Zero Degrees" or the X axis reduces the ability of the flail
mower to create a pressure gradient being a vacuum condition to allow the flail mower knives to cut and lift the
clippings up and over the flail mower rotor and back to the ground.

When this is done the flail mower will not mow as effectively and cleanly and provide the user with a better finish but the clippings will be shorter in length.


Please, please, please ask more questions.

I would like you to read the flail mower thread before you make a purchase as your money may not be well spent if you do not do your homework about flail mowers.

I want you to understand that a flail mower will outlast your current mule and it can be mounted on a new mule when or if you decide to increase the frame size and horse power.

 

[bkrgi]

Everyone likes Pics and Video SO ....here some results of the Woodmaxx FM62H powered by a Kubota B26TLB......

Before...
DSC01082 by richardktm300, on Flickr

DSC01085 by richardktm300, on Flickr

After

DSC01094 by richardktm300, on Flickr

DSC01095 by richardktm300, on Flickr

DSC01096 by richardktm300, on Flickr

 

[bkrgi]

Second Vid as can only do one per reply

 

[bruceha2000]

@bkrgi 2 questions if you please:

• What cutters are you using
• Do you sideshift while mowing or do you stop, shift, go forward, stop shift continue on?

Thanks

 

[AGTtactical]

Good morning AGTactical,

You have to understand that by raising the flail mower using the top link does 2 things:

1. it raises the center line of the flail mower rotor higher above the ground

2. the act of raising the flail mower above "level" being Zero Degrees" or the X axis reduces the ability of the flail
mower to create a pressure gradient being a vacuum condition to allow the flail mower knives to cut and lift the
clippings up and over the flail mower rotor and back to the ground.
When this is done the flail mower will not mow as effectively and cleanly and provide the user with a better finish but the clippings will be shorter in length.

Thanks! Woodmax actually recommends that the front of the mower be tilted up 10-15 degrees. Its designed that way. I'll see if I can find where I read that.

 

[AGTtactical]

Second Vid as can only do one per reply

Man, I just LOVE how these flails mulch!

 

[leonz]

Flail mowers are not designed to be operated that way. They have to be level to enable them to create the suction needed to lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor.

The scoop knives and hammer knives do not have the aerodynamic design to lift and recut clippings and brush.

Raising the front of the flail mower reduces the ability of the flail mower to work more effectively as the flail mower shroud and flail knives work together.

The flail mower shroud acts as an air duct with a limited number of cubic feet within the shroud to let the knives move the air entering the shroud from the front of the mower and also when making second passes to recut the brush and good grass clippings.

The Mathews Company Lawn Genie flail mowers used air paddles to aid in lifting the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor more efficiently and the air paddles also aided in blowing the clippings into the collection baskets of all three models of lawn genies. Sadly these flail mowers are no longer made but after 30 years parts are replacement parts are still available.

 

[AGTtactical]

Flail mowers are not designed to be operated that way. They have to be level to enable them to create the suction needed to lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor.
The scoop knives and hammer knives do not have the aerodynamic design to lift and recut clippings and brush. Raising the front of the flail mower reduces the ability of the flail mower to work more effectively as the flail mower shroud and flail knives work together. The flail mower shroud acts as an air duct with a limited number of cubic feet within the shroud to let the knives move the air entering the shroud from the front of the mower and also when making second passes to recut the brush and good grass clippings.

Not designed to be operated that way? I never argued against any of what you claim. Sure, too much tilt will reduce suction. I said 10-15 degrees....here's what I said as a reminder: "Woodmax actually recommends that the front of the mower be tilted up 10-15 degrees. Its designed that way."

So I looked it up. Page 15 of the Woodmax owner's manual says exactly this: "The mower should be operated with the back of the mower 10-15 degrees lower than the front." Sounds like its clearly designed to be operated that way to me. But what do I know...its only straight from the factory, in writing. I'm sure some other manufactures may be different, but I was talking about Woodmax. In any case, it clearly dispels the idea that all flail mowers should never be tilted. And too little airflow under the deck can reduce the ability of the flail mowers to lift grass too.

 

[bkrgi]

@bkrgi 2 questions if you please:

• What cutters are you using
• Do you sideshift while mowing or do you stop, shift, go forward, stop shift continue on?

Thanks

Using the hammers....knowing I would get into some woody material on jobs as in here
Best to raise the mower and shift then drop and continue on...less strain on things.

 

[bkrgi]

Man, I just LOVE how these flails mulch!

And that's why I got the flail over a rotary...

 

[leonz]

No, I am not arguing with you.

They have not been making flail mowers for very long. They simply entered the flail mower market to increase their market share of the sub compact and compact utility tractor implement market.

Like almost every other manufacturer currently manufacturing flail mowers in Asia, The United States and Europe they are using a small tubular flail mower rotor without adding air paddles to increase the efficiency of the flail mower knives and increase the ability of the flail mower rotor and knives to become more aerodynamic and create more lift with the added mass of the air paddles and the mass of air which has weight and creates a pressure gradient when entering the flail mower shroud.

The Peruzzo pickup mowers have air paddles to aid in picking up grass clippings.
The Wessex paddock cleaners use wide deep brushes to pick up horse manure in paddocks and enclosed horse arenas.


There is a lot of work that goes into designing a flail mower and creating the amount of pressure gradient needed to mow brush and good sod.

A larger diameter flail mower rotor allows a manufacturer to use shorter knife sets and air paddles to mow lawns and also collect the clippings to prevent dead turf from occurring.

My 40 year old flail mower does not require tools to change knife sets and thatching blades and that is a blessing.

I am stating again that the flail mower or any flail mower/orchard and vineyard shredder/crop shredder for that matter needs to be level to create the resistance to needed to create the pressure gradient(suction) to pull the clipped material over the flail mower rotor.

Flail shredders used for crop shredding are always left level whether they are shredding flat land crop residue or ridge tillage crops. Crop shredding is much more difficult to do as it takes more gearbox horsepower and engine horsepower to do.

 

[AGTtactical]

In other words:: "Sorry, but I won't admit I am wrong."

And I guess the designer and manufacturer of this flail mower must not know how to operate their own flails, as they state it should be tilted.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

The scoop knives and hammer knives do not have the aerodynamic design to lift and recut clippings and brush.

I would have to respectfully disagree with this. The scoops (and Ford's airplane wings) have much better design to create a suction to lift. Their design is much like a furnace blower (in reverse actually). The scoops are angled so that when the blade is at bottom dead center there is an angle along the blade facing upwards creating high pressure on the top side and low pressure on the bottom side creating a lift. The side slicers when at bottom dead center are parallel with the ground creating no lift. There is "wind" created by them simple by displacement of air, but no "lift". I noticed that with my Ford 917 that when I switch from airplane wings to side slicers my tire tracks are not being cut as well as before. This would reaffirm the lift the wings and scoops create vs side slicers.

The hammers may or may not have lift depending on their design and the way they spin on the rotor.

Every flail is created differently. To say otherwise is like saying that all tractors are created the same and operate the same regardless of who manufactures it. My Ford 917 is designed to take different knives for different jobs including switching between rough and finish mowing blades. Some mowers you need to change the rotor to do so, and some don't even offer the option to go to finish mowing. Some mowers rotate the same as the tires, some opposite. It's all in how the manufacturer designed it and I would follow what the manufacturer says on how to set it up and use it. They designed it to operate a specific way and to do otherwise is counter productive.