Grapple --- 1 Lid or 2

[IslandTractor]

I woke up this morning, all excited to start building the grapple and then I looked outside. It snowed again.....arrrrrrggggg!! I just spent 4 hrs plowing and moving snow and came on for lunch. I should go and do a little more plowing but I'm not going to.

So read the new replies and note the comments about the lid being too wide and maybe getting torqued. Isn't that the exact reason for 2 lids being better than one wide one. I also like the comment about visibility. Excellent point and I will take that into account when I get back to the grapple. Now I might reconsider dual lids. I received information about the WR Long OBG-2 grapple and found out the bottom tines are only 27" long. I've mocked mine at 32" but think a shorter one would be stronger and I will revisit that..

I would suggest that two lids are not really better than one on a 48" grapple with regard to preventing twisting of the grapple/FEL by a long load like a tree. Imagine a 24-26ft tree in the grapple. With a single 24" lid there would be roughly 12 feet sticking out either side. With two 18" lids, there would still be about 11 feet or so sticking out each end. 11ft is still a pretty long lever arm. And, whatever the twist you put on that load (typically accidentally snagging the tree on another as you drive or even just hitting a pothole), the whole twisting force is going to be transmitted to both grapple and FEL arms. Going slow is more important than how many lids.

 

[txdon]

And txdon, I'm not cutting down yours. It's really a nice grapple! And I guess the teeth on the upper you push with May not be part of the cylinder assembly. I can't tell.

We were posting at the same time the pic right before yours my explain it better.

 

[Hilbilly]

TxDon, those pics are great and thanks. I doubt I will ever try that with the soil conditions we have here.

I was in the shop and decided I will stick with the 50" width, so I started cutting material and grinding to get ready for welding. I think I will go with one 24" lid, but I can decide that later. I just want to get started so I figure I'll work on the back frame for now and then figure out the rest later.

 

[txdon]

Sounds like a good plan.

 

[TomSeller]

I would not consider carrying a 26' tree in a grapple at 90 degrees to the direction of a travel unless I was in an open flat area whether I had one lid or two. I would cut the tree at least in two so I could fit between trees, gates etc. If you are headed to a burn pile, it is better for burning to have shorter lengths anyway. If it is firewood, you are going to cut it eventually. As IT mentions, the tree would have so much leverage upon hitting something, it would twist the load out of either a typical one or two lid grapple.

 

[IslandTractor]

I would not consider carrying a 26' tree in a grapple at 90 degrees to the direction of a tractor unless I was in an open flat area whether I had one lid or two. I would cut the tree at least in two so I could fit between trees, gates etc. If you are headed to a burn pile, it is better for burning to have shorter lengths anyway. If it is firewood, you are going to cut it eventually. As IT mentions, the tree would have so much leverage upon hitting something, it would twist the load out of either a typical one or two lid grapple.

Agree. I made up the example just to point out the massive lever effect such a grappled object would have on both grapple and FEL. Even just driving in an open field would be dangerous due to the possibility of hitting a rock or pothole that would suddenly jolt the load. No problem lifting and moving such an object for a short distance but travel at any sort of speed beyond slow walk would be inadvisable IMO.

 

[Hilbilly]

Progress has been slow. First because of the snow and now because I keep running out of welding supplies. Yesterday I got the rear frame together (except for the QA plates) and I didn't like the penetration of my welds. So today I went into the city to get bigger wire and liner for my wire feed. There's 3/4 of day shot and they didn't have what I wanted. Now I have to wait a week or more for that. I guess I'll have to try using the stick welder again and I suck at that. Today I cut the plates for the QA attachment bracket and discover that I'm almost out of oxy and acetylene plus my tanks have expired. So now I have to go back into the city and get the tanks tested and filled. I'm told the testing will take the better part of a week. Anyways here are some pics of progress so far. The back frame is welded, the QA plates are just sitting on the frame to check for fit and the wooden thing leaning against the frame is my template for the lid. I also took a pic of my mobile welding table. It doubles as a quad trailer.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Looking like a good start. A grapple a perfect place to work on your stick welding skills. Don't forget to keep everything well jigged while welding so it stays straight.

I built a brush bucket at Christmas time out of round tubing tines with angle iron frame. I'd checked every which way I thought of prior to welding and it still came out with an awful twist. Managed to flame shrink some of it out but it still looks like crap

 

[Hilbilly]

I laid the parts out and double checked before starting to weld, to make sure it was square and not twisted. After tacking it all together I found it was twisted so I knocked it apart and started over. Got it the second time. But for the next time I screw up, how do you flame shrink to move it after it's welded?

 

[HCJtractor]

Looking good! Interesting project!

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

One thing you should consider doing is welding some heavy duty expanded metal across the back plate of the grapple to keep brush out of your tractor's grill.

 

[Hilbilly]

One thing you should consider doing is welding some heavy duty expanded metal across the back plate of the grapple to keep brush out of your tractor's grill.

Great point. Someone else suggested the same thing earlier and I should have responded then.

I will either put some expanded metal across the back of the grapple or on the push bar that is mounted to the front of the tractor. The push bar is probably a better location, since that would protect the rad at all times, not just when I'm using the grapple.

 

[txdon]

Great point. Someone else suggested the same thing earlier and I should have responded then.

I will either put some expanded metal across the back of the grapple or on the push bar that is mounted to the front of the tractor. The push bar is probably a better location, since that would protect the rad at all times, not just when I'm using the grapple.

That is what I have on my front grill guard and you do need it on the tractor because the grapple is going up and down and the pokey sticks are not.

 

[Hilbilly]

I noticed that on an earlier pic of yours and that is where I got the idea. Heck maybe it's better to have it on both the grapple and the tractor. I guess time will tell.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I laid the parts out and double checked before starting to weld, to make sure it was square and not twisted. After tacking it all together I found it was twisted so I knocked it apart and started over. Got it the second time. But for the next time I screw up, how do you flame shrink to move it after it's welded?

It's a big ol bloody pain in the arse but with persistence it can be done. Mostly when it's twisted from the heat of welding rather than welded out of square. I'm by no means an expert. I only learned of it last year with my welding table build needing to flatten the 1/2" plate I had for the top and then tried it a few weeks ago when my bucket didn't turn out the way I wanted.

Check out the first few pages and then the last few for the heat/flame shrinking. Feel free to check out the whole build while you are there
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/302426-welding-table-build.html

 

[TomSeller]

What you could do, is weld on 4 hinge positions with equal distance between each adjacent hinge point. Then a cylinder mount in the middle. Then you would be able to mount one lid on the center two hinge points and see how it works. If you then thought you needed two lids, you could fab up another lid and weld on two more cylinder mounts, mounting the lid on the outside hinge points. I am surprised grapple companies don't do this in the first place. "Would you like one lid or two with your grapple today?"

 

[IslandTractor]

What you could do, is weld on 4 hinge positions with equal distance between each adjacent hinge point. Then a cylinder mount in the middle. Then you would be able to mount one lid on the center two hinge points and see how it works. If you then thought you needed two lids, you could fab up another lid and weld on two more cylinder mounts, mounting the lid on the outside hinge points. I am surprised grapple companies don't do this in the first place. "Would you like one lid or two with your grapple today?"

If they used four mount positions, they could offer a grapple with either one or two small upper jaws or one large upper jaw. Maybe even sell the large upper jaw as an optional extra.

 

[TomSeller]

If they used four mount positions, they could offer a grapple with either one or two small upper jaws or one large upper jaw. Maybe even sell the large upper jaw as an optional extra.

Yes! Then the question would be "Would you like one lid, two lids or super size lid with your grapple today?"

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes! Then the question would be "Would you like one lid, two lids or super size lid with your grapple today?"

And, "do you want fries with that?"

 

[Hilbilly]

It's a big ol bloody pain in the arse but with persistence it can be done. Mostly when it's twisted from the heat of welding rather than welded out of square. I'm by no means an expert. I only learned of it last year with my welding table build needing to flatten the 1/2" plate I had for the top and then tried it a few weeks ago when my bucket didn't turn out the way I wanted.

Check out the first few pages and then the last few for the heat/flame shrinking. Feel free to check out the whole build while you are there
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/302426-welding-table-build.html

Thanks for that link. There is a lot of valuable info there. I really like your table, especially with all the features you designed in to it. Very well thought out.

My progress has been slow and now my shoulder tendonitis is flaring up (even the cortizone shot isn't helping) which pretty much put me out of action for the rest of today and maybe tomorrow. I did get to try some AC stick welding and after the first few attempts it went better than I expected. The first part of the weld sucked and had to be redone but after that I started to figure out what I was doing wrong. I think the biggest problem I had in the past when trying to strike an arc was due to me using an old welders helmet that didn't have an auto darkening lens. Much easier to strike an arc when you can see where the end of the rod is.:laughing: