Grapple --- 1 Lid or 2

[TomSeller]

Now we're talking. The typical landscape rake tines are too tough to collect debris without tearing up turf however. Maybe if they could be mounted to some sort of softer spring they could work without digging into the ground.

I also run my landscape rake on a 3PT adapter on the FEL. Love it. I use that more than I do the rear mounted 3PT with the rake. It is much easier to do precision work and much easier to maneuver and adjust too. Photos show it mounted in the "push" position but I generally use it in the "pull" orientation. Great for clearing weeds against buildings or fences/walls.

I have never seen this setup. Nice. Do you use the float function on your FEL with the rake? Or guide it up and down?

 

[TomSeller]

I have multiple grapples, but if I only were to have one, it would be a narrow L bottom with a single lid. The lid would open in excess of 40" and the grapple would be reasonably light.

 

[Hilbilly]

I made my decision.............. going with a 50" wide single lid. The lid will be 36" wide and the opening will be 45". Had it mocked up and I think it looks ok. I figure that if I'm not happy with the width I can always add 2 more tines down the road, to make it 66".

Tomorrow I start construction. Being a novice at this, it will likely be a day or 2 before I get enough progress to post any pics but they will come.

 

[TomSeller]

I made my decision.............. going with a 50" wide single lid. The lid will be 36" wide and the opening will be 45". Had it mocked up and I think it looks ok. I figure that if I'm not happy with the width I can always add 2 more tines down the road, to make it 66".

Tomorrow I start construction. Being a novice at this, it will likely be a day or 2 before I get enough progress to post any pics but they will come.

Good decision. You likely will find you can pick up everything you need to at 50". The extra tines just add weight. But you'll be the judge of that. Looking forward to your pictures.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have never seen this setup. Nice. Do you use the float function on your FEL with the rake? Or guide it up and down?

I can pull with it in float mode but if I push in float mode it digs in. I have learned to mostly pull with it and use it both with float when just trying to skim or with down pressure when digging. I also sometimes set it just above the turf and back up to collect debris without risking damage to turf. Even with float mode the weight of the rake is enough to cause it to dig through turf. I use the float mode mostly when leveling dirt. I have also learned that by curling/dumping the rotation of the tines makes a difference but I cannot "curl" enough to get the tines past about vertical before the heel of the FEL attachment plate hits the ground. Instead, I raise the rake and then "dump" the position of the tines so they are just rubbing the ground on the bowed side without the tips even touching turf. That is the gentlest contact I can make and is useful for spreading or smoothing topsoil. With only the bowed part of the rake tines making contact with soil/turf, I can pull or push without damage to turf but float doesn't work too well as the weight of the whole contraption is enough that the rake "trips" over itself. Better to just set the height.

 

[rd_macgregor]

Did you bend the lid, bottom tines or the frame? Now I'm back to thinking 2 clamps would be better.:duh:

The bottom tines (rake) and frame are fine, I torqued the grapple itself a bit. I think I did it carrying a heavy load asymmetrically, but I could have been careless pushing over trees and allowed the grapple to do the pushing (a mistake to avoid). When sitting in the cab, I can see that the top of the grapple isn't quite parallel to the plane of the rake/frame...but it is just aesthetics; everything still works great.

 

[jimmysisson]

Hilbilly, you might be safer with a narrower lid, unless you make it good and stout. I'm thinking about how the lid might get torqued on a rock when one corner grabs first. 50" - 36" is only 7" of open grapple on either side of the lid.
One other aspect of the lid to remember is it blocks your view when it is open. View is at a premium when you're trying to grab an object (boulder, log, etc.)
No matter what, you'll get used to it and enjoy the heck out of it anyway.
Jim

 

[IslandTractor]

Hilbilly, you might be safer with a narrower lid, unless you make it good and stout. I'm thinking about how the lid might get torqued on a rock when one corner grabs first. 50" - 36" is only 7" of open grapple on either side of the lid.
One other aspect of the lid to remember is it blocks your view when it is open. View is at a premium when you're trying to grab an object (boulder, log, etc.)
No matter what, you'll get used to it and enjoy the heck out of it anyway.
Jim

Good point about visibility. That can also be addressed by using something other than a solid protective plate to protect the upper arm cylinder. If you can see through that area it helps alot. Two bars connecting the upper tines with a simple bridge of two or three inch wide piece of angle iron directly in line with the cylinder would protect the cylinder without blocking any more view than the cylinder itself does.

I think my upper jaw is only about 18" wide. If I were to custom build one now, I'd make it wider than that but would probably be happy at about 24". The width of the upper jaw is really not that critical to holding the load. Think of your hand where your thumb is the equivalent of the upper jaw. Your thumb works fine to hold loads in your hand even though it is only a fraction of the width of the whole hand.

 

[txdon]

I made my decision.............. going with a 50" wide single lid. The lid will be 36" wide and the opening will be 45". Had it mocked up and I think it looks ok. I figure that if I'm not happy with the width I can always add 2 more tines down the road, to make it 66".

Tomorrow I start construction. Being a novice at this, it will likely be a day or 2 before I get enough progress to post any pics but they will come.

I think the 50" is perfect. Mine is 54". Single lid is fine. Without the bottom cross bar you can dig deeper but with it you can back drag better and don't go too deep and have a better chance of cutting off instead of sliding through some roots. There is no perfect grapple for everyone just envision what you need to get the jobs done.

Side digging next to fence line:

 

[foreman Etexas]

I like my single lid but then again I haven't ever used a double. I waited way to long before I purchased mine last year,it's crazy handy. I make quick work cleaning up after the fence line cleaners.

 

[Hilbilly]

I woke up this morning, all excited to start building the grapple and then I looked outside. It snowed again.....arrrrrrggggg!! I just spent 4 hrs plowing and moving snow and came on for lunch. I should go and do a little more plowing but I'm not going to.

So read the new replies and note the comments about the lid being too wide and maybe getting torqued. Isn't that the exact reason for 2 lids being better than one wide one. I also like the comment about visibility. Excellent point and I will take that into account when I get back to the grapple. Now I might reconsider dual lids. I received information about the WR Long OBG-2 grapple and found out the bottom tines are only 27" long. I've mocked mine at 32" but think a shorter one would be stronger and I will revisit that.

I like TXdon's grapple and think it would be great for rooting but I don't have any intentions or doing that with mine. The soil around here is like concrete in the summer and can even be hard to dig with my 16,000lb excavator using the dig bucket with teeth. There are also numerous boulders and stumps everywhere making it it very bad idea to try digging with a grapple. We got so many boulders from our house and shop excavations that I built a rock wall about 6'-7' high and about 80' long with them. I also had to use the excavator to put in fence poles for our veg garden.

I'm heading back out to the shop to revisit my mock up.

 

[txdon]

Isn't that the exact reason for 2 lids being better than one wide one. I also like the comment about visibility. Excellent point and I will take that into account when I get back to the grapple. Now I might reconsider dual lids.

You do need to protect the hydraulic cylinder(s) and the front of your tractor. My two solid lids protect the cylinders. The extra metal on the back side of the grapple protects the front grill of the tractor. I do look in-between the lids. I also use the space in-between the lids to push trees at a higher point without putting pressure on the lids. . . and just for you I will go outside in this 39˚ weather and push a tree. Picture in about an hour.

 

[Xfaxman]

In case you haven't seen it in other grapple forums, here are the dimensions of my two lid Monster Grapple that is made for high capacity machines.

And their smaller Root Grapple.

Loflin Fabrication

The 72" Monster on my V417.

 

[txdon]

Medium size cedar tree removal with grapple:

First I loosen the rootball,
then I push the tree down,
then I pop out the tree,
then take it to the brush pile,
then run the box blade along the trail.

 

[txdon]

One more shows visibility with the lid open.

 

[HCJtractor]

My opinion is xfaxman has perfect dimensions. I like the longer bottom tines vs. txdon's ( no offense) And when pushing a big tree down, I do the same thing but with my bottoms tines and the FEL elevated. Why use the more fragile upper assembly, that's attached to cylinders? The bottom tines are bombproof.
The longer tines give more capacity for brush. And I still believe one upper thumb is plenty, and two just adds weight, complexity, and is un-necessary on a narrower grapple. The human hand has one thumb and it works great. why two ?

 

[txdon]

My opinion is xfaxman has perfect dimensions. I like the longer bottom tines vs. txdon's ( no offense) And when pushing a big tree down, I do the same thing but with my bottoms tines and the FEL elevated. Why use the more fragile upper assembly, that's attached to cylinders? The bottom tines are bombproof.
The longer tines give more capacity for brush. And I still believe one upper thumb is plenty, and two just adds weight, complexity, and is un-necessary on a narrower grapple. The human hand has one thumb and it works great. why two ?

No offense taken at all, each grapple has it's strong points. However just think of the grip with two thumbs and you could you could give a "two thumbs up" with just one hand.:thumbsup:

Oh, I do use the top and bottom of the grapple to push.

 

[HCJtractor]

And txdon, I'm not cutting down yours. It's really a nice grapple! And I guess the teeth on the upper you push with May not be part of the cylinder assembly. I can't tell. My point is most any grapple is awesome to have. And mine will do everything yours did in the pictures. But if I were building one, and cutting all steel with a torch, simpler seems better. I will admit the visibility between the thumbs is better than mine, but frankly, when I'm wading into a pile of brush, I can't really see anything regardless of the thumb. And when traveling, I keep the grapple low and the thumb closed so visibility isn't a problem.

 

[IslandTractor]

My opinion is xfaxman has perfect dimensions. I like the longer bottom tines vs. txdon's ( no offense) And when pushing a big tree down, I do the same thing but with my bottoms tines and the FEL elevated. Why use the more fragile upper assembly, that's attached to cylinders? The bottom tines are bombproof.
The longer tines give more capacity for brush. And I still believe one upper thumb is plenty, and two just adds weight, complexity, and is un-necessary on a narrower grapple. The human hand has one thumb and it works great. why two ?

Remember though xfaxman's grapple is a very heavy grapple meant for a Bobcat. I don't know exactly what it weighs but I'm guessing something between 600-800lbs or more than twice the weight of a light duty 48" grapple. There is a penalty to pay in net lift capacity for having such a heavy duty grapple. Not an issue if your Bobcat loader is rated for 4000lbs or whatever but for a typical CUT that would hurt net lift.

I was a bit surprised to hear that the bottom tines were as short as 24" on some of these grapples as they just "seem" longer than that. Perhaps my mental image of the grapple includes the backing/frame.

 

[HCJtractor]

And txdon, isn't it fun to knock stuff down!! My buddy who uses mine just drives around looking for trees to push down. If he keeps using it, my hunting property is gonna look like a parking lot.
Oh, I like your expanded metal mesh over your grill guard. That's a must have.