Gas for chainsaw...

[5030]

It depends. Where I live, the answer is no, premium has no more ethanol than regular and actually may have less ethanol in it. The state mandates 10% ethanol in all gas under 91 octane and anything 91+ octane can have anywhere between no ethanol and 10% ethanol. In practice premium here is either 10% ethanol, or no ethanol and sold at a big premium.




Ethanol has a very high octane rating. Adding it at low concentrations is like mixing in 115 octane fuel, adding 10% to regular gas increases the octane by 2.5 points. Adding it in higher concentrations depends on the engine it's run in. E85 is roughly 105 octane in a naturally aspirated engine, about 115 octane in a forced aspiration and aftercooled engine, and 130+ octane in a forced-aspiration non-aftercooled engine. Ethanol takes a bunch of heat to vaporize which significantly lowers charge air temps, which is a big component of power production in forced-aspiration setups.

Ethanol was initially introduced to reduce MTBE as an oxygenate to reduce emissions due to the previously-mentioned groundwater contamination with MTBE. The discussion regarding corn subsidies came a bit after that. The fact that it raised octane levels did not appear to be a factor initially as the initial ethanol blend here was 89 octane mid-grade and that was it. This was regular 87 octane with a little under 10% ethanol added. If it was about raising octane they would have added ethanol to all grades right off the bat and you would have seen them add ethanol to 92-93 octane premium to make 94-95 octane super-premium. E85's very high octane rating would have also been widely publicized, instead I have seen an octane rating on exactly one E85 pump ever. Now that we very well know ethanol raises octane, it still isn't a factor. It seems any time there is discussion outside of the racing community (where it has some big fans) about actually using ethanol to boost octane and moving beyond the 1970s post-leaded-gas malaise-era 87 octane standard, you get all of the "it screwed up my chainsaw I hadn't used for four years" or "you are just making evil Monsanto rich", "you are starving kids in Zimbabwe," and the other usual responses. And now we are stuck with DI setups and their significant drawbacks in gasoline engines in order to try to work around running a heavily-turbocharged engine with double-digit compression ratios on the same swill that barely ran engines with maybe an 8:1 compression ratio in the '70s.

Here we go again. Not that I really care. Just read my comment in post 44. It explains simply why corn alcohol is in pump gas. You need a tinfoil hat.

 

[arto98607]

Only ever seen one and it was a Chinese saw.

Here is another one and it would solve all those gasoline problems

 

[bdhsfz6]

I had nothing but trouble with ethanol fuel in my old Craftsman, Stihl and JD saws. It improved some when I learned the trick of pumping the first 5 gallons or so of high test into the truck before filling the fuel cans. Still had issues with varnish buildup though from residual fuel in the carbs.

I found Husqvarna will double the warranty on my new Rancher 460 if I use their pre mixed fuel. Unopened, they claim a 10 year shelf life. Yeah, it's 4 times more expensive than pump gas but I bought a couple of electric saws so I don't use much anymore. To me anyway, the extra cost is worth it for the convenience of not having to drain & clean the saw thoroughly after every use. I just run her dry and put her back on the shelf.

I only break out the husky a few times a year now and let the electric saws do most of the light duty cutting.

 

[mo1]

Which has NOTHING to do with a chainsaw...

The topic of ethanol in gasoline nearly always comes up whenever anybody discusses gasoline-powered small engines, particularly small single-cylinder carbureted ones such as chainsaws. The politics and technical implications of ethanol then follows. I see no reason why the technical implications can't be discussed as a major reason of this website is to have technical discussions. I also don't see how that discussion would be off-topic in a catch-all kind of subforum such as this one.

Regarding "tinfoil hats," I was actually making fun of the tinfoil hat arguments that people on various sides of the spectrum make about putting ethanol in gasoline. Certainly whenever there is a federal mandate for anything, there will be lobbying, usually both for and against whatever is being mandated. But, the historical record is clear that the initial reason for the introduction of ethanol was to replace MTBE as an oxygenate in gasoline.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Actually, the REAL reason for corn alcohol in gasoline is to support the corn lobby and not much else and it's a proven fact, many times over that it takes more energy to distill a gallon of corn alcohol than the gallon produces in energy.

Without government subsidities no corn alcohol distillers would stay in business.

Get your facts straight...

Do keep in mind I am a farmer but I don't grow e-corn and never will.

So what was the reason for MTBE in gasoline? Oxygenated fuel is mandated by reality. The fact that they chose ethanol was a combination of factors. The farm lobby certainly contributed, as did the legislators and press from corn producing states. Balance of payments had a lot to do with it too. At least we could produce the ethanol domestically, as opposed to the other possible fuel amendments. Sometimes you just hold your nose and make the best choice.

I was thrilled a while back when Oregon-Washington Mobil stations were pumping E0 from their 87 pumps at regular prices. The boost in mileage was about another 50 miles per tank. I pay a big price so city folks don't choke on their own fumes.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

You might want to look into the Optilube XPD and Summer+ products. They appear to have exceptional lubricity. E.g.

Opti-Lube XPD Fuel Additive Review and Comparison / Speed House Blog | Free Shipping | Best Price | Speed House

Performance Parts, Suspension, and Gear for Diesel and Gas Trucks, SUV's, Cars, RV's, and Motorcycles. Specializing in performance, reliability, and fuel economy (increased MPG). Cold Air intake kits, Performance Chips, Tuners, Programmers, Performance Exhaust Kits, and Solid Axle Swap Kits...

shopspeedhouse.com

I don't use the XPD version because of the cost; I use the summer+ version at a slightly higher addition rate, and use SeaFoam to pick up the detergent aspects of XPD. Reading the Optilube Summer+ MSDS label, it would seem to have a significant biodiesel component (known for good lubricity).YMMV.

All the best,

Peter

I think I'll stick with the 100:1 2-cycle oil mix, since I have a couple gallons still unopened. It's higher carbon than diesel, so even improves engine power a little. It will take a while to go through 200 gallons of fuel with my little L3130. That's about 200 hours at full throttle.

I don't add a cetane improver in the summer, though higher cetane does help with winter starts.

 

[5030]

My only comment is, I'm sure glad I don't live in Oregon or any area populated with left leaning liberals and I'll stick with non gasoline chainsaw and weed whacker fuel as well.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

My only comment is, I'm sure glad I don't live in Oregon or any area populated with left leaning liberals and I'll stick with non gasoline chainsaw and weed whacker fuel as well.

I hear you can use your tap water for weed whacker fuel.

 

[marhar]

Curious as to others thoughts.

I've got a Stihl 044. Probably 20 years old. Still runs strong. Though I do not admit nor deny being of OCD tendencies..... I ONLY buy premium/high octane for it. higher the better. Before 9-11 happened (World Trade Centers), I'd go to a local small airport and buy their Avgas. I've not tried since then as I'm presuming that won't be allowed.

So.... next choice for the last umptten years is go to to gas station.....BUT, I will NOT get gas from a pump with a single hose and allows you to choose higher octane. I figure by the time my 2 1/2 gallon can is full, I've emptied all the REGULAR octane between the pump & handle but, paid a premium for it. Now, the next person who fills their tank will get "my" higher octane mixed in with their regular.

So, I only go to stations that have dedicated hoses for each grade of fuel. I don't go every week.... over the last two times I've gone (i have to drive about 10 miles to get to the only station I'm aware of near me that has the dedicated hose for high octane)

Anyway, they have a bag over the handle. They are either out of higher octane or maybe an issue with their pump, tank, paying the bills....something.

So this has me wondering about the merits of maybe buying the gallon premix at the box store (I'm guessing for like $25 verses $12 at the pump). I understand this is already premixed at 50:1 so it should be open & pour.

What I'm wondering is, has/does anyone do that and is it worth the premium? I've premixed gas for my saws or dirtbikes for the last 46 years so mixing a batch is not an issue. Because it's so easy to do, it makes my skin crawl to pay the premium BUT, if the fuel is actually of this higher octane, it's much easier to grab a can verses the production I have to go through to drive to the next town over. (I live in the middle of nothing)

Buy "real gas" with no ethanol. Then use a synthetic pre-measured mix. The 2-cycle oil is more important than the gas. I use Stihl synthetic and I have had great results.

 

[5030]

I stick with either Tru-Fuel or Echo Red Armor. Don't use that much anyway, maybe a couple gallons a year. Why take the chance.