For those with block heaters

[ultrarunner]

From what I recall over the years the easiest way to have a block heater fail quickly is to start and run the engine with them still plugged in.

Interesting because always plugged in and run regularly and when power goes out.

The freeze plug heaters lasted a few years but the in line radiator hose heaters about 7-10.

I can hear the heater cycling on and off so being plugged in sides not mean on all the time.

 

[grsthegreat]

I live in north idaho. I use a device called Yolink sold thru amazon. My tractor shed is 300 feet from the house, and the hub is in my house. Works flawlessly. I can either set it on manually, or on a timer, or on a set schedule. This way i dont need to turn it on for days i dont plan on using it. I only need 2-3 hours of preheat on the coldest days. If i inow ill be moving snow on tuesday at 9am, ill preset the schedule to tuesday 6am. Its all warm when i go out there.

I also placed an outlet in my carriage barn which is 400 feet from hub. But signal goes thru other devices, so also works flawlessly. This one if for f350 block heater.

They have both outdoor and indoor outlets. I use the outdoor outlet for tractor lean to, and indoor outlet for the carriage barn as it can be placed indoors. The outdoor unit has 2 zones, so i use this for my step snow melt mats also. One zone for steps and one for landing pad which takes longer to melt snow.

You only need 1 hub, but you can use more for longer coverage.

Also use their leak detectors, refer and freezer temp alarms.

Amazon.com

 

[CalG]

Whenever I need to get the tractors out to move snow etc. in cold weather, the walk to the barn to plug in the heater is well worth the "evaluation" time.

I run open station, so I need to dress right anyway. If my fingers get so cold just plugging in the heater and battery charger in the morning, I KNOW it's going to need to get sunny and warm by mid day when I'm ready to go move snow!
;-)

 

[John_Mc]

Thanks for the link. Like the fact that it has 2 plugs. Can it be set to on go on at certain temps like Topzide can do?

If you can't find that functionality in a unit or app, You can always get a WiFi outlet, the plug one of the thermostat outlets that farm stores and some hardware stores sell to control livestock water heaters. Plug the WiFi controlled outlet into the wall outlet (so it always has power), then plug the thermostat outlet in to that.

I use one of these to power the heated water bowl for our barn cats (and our chickens, when we had them):
HEATIT Thermostatically controlled outlet

There are fancier ones available, including ones that are programmable for on and off temperatures. But that one does what I needed, and only costs about $15.

 

[Egon]

On a cold start the oil pressure may be good but that does not mean the oil is circulating properly.

There must be a reason industrial equipment is usually set up with a prelube interval in the start procedure.

 

[John_Mc]

The majority of wear in an internal combustion engine occurs in the first few moments after starting, until the oil warms up and flows normally to all the nooks and crannies in the engine. While modern multi-viscosity oils help reduce this period, they do not eliminate it. An indication of pressure on the oil pressure gauge is NOT a good indicator that the engine engine is getting properly lubed. All it means is that there is pressure at the sensor, which is not the same thing as oil flowing properly to all areas of the engine. The fact that your engine starts (or even starts easily) is also no indication that these lubrication issues are not happening.

The wear on first start happens at any temperature, but is worse are colder temps for two reasons: the oil may not be flowing properly until it warms up a bit, and the internal clearances are tighter in cold temperatures due to contraction of the metals. (That latter effect is magnified when dissimilar metals are used, since they expand and contract at different rates.)

 

[CalG]

The majority of wear in an internal combustion engine occurs in the first few moments after starting, until the oil warms up and flows normally to all the nooks and crannies in the engine. While modern multi-viscosity oils help reduce this period, they do not eliminate it. An indication of pressure on the oil pressure gauge is NOT a good indicator that the engine engine is getting properly lubed. All it means is that there is pressure at the sensor, which is not the same thing as oil flowing properly to all areas of the engine. The fact that your engine starts (or even starts easily) is also no indication that these lubrication issues are not happening.

The wear on first start happens at any temperature, but is worse are colder temps for two reasons: the oil may not be flowing properly until it warms up a bit, and the internal clearances are tighter in cold temperatures due to contraction of the metals. (That latter effect is magnified when dissimilar metals are used, since they expand and contract at different rates.)

And all this is no reason for any concerns! Yes, today's lubricants and engine materials are that GOOD!

I've got a 2007 four cylinder turbocharged automobile sitting in the drive with 1 quarter of a million miles on it. The engine is the best part!

 

[grsthegreat]

I just sold my 1994 dodge cummins for $6000, and it had over 370,000 miles on it. Engine purrs right along. The transmission was the only weak link. Was on a block heater during winter its entire life. That heater was on a wall timer. 2 hours before use it was powered on.

 

[John_Mc]

And all this is no reason for any concerns! Yes, today's lubricants and engine materials are that GOOD!

Which still does not change the fact that the majority of wear in internal combustion engines happens in the first few moments after start. Warming the block reduces that wear.

 

[CalG]

Which still does not change the fact that the majority of wear in internal combustion engines happens in the first few moments after start. Warming the block reduces that wear.

All I'm saying is that that wear associated with cold start ups will NOT have any measurable effect on YOUR enjoyment of the tractor.

You will be dead before the engine wear becomes "a thing". Barring other factors of course.

I own equipment to USE it. Not to see who's grand children can put it out as a yard ornament.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Well when I use a block heater it's because I'm more concerned about getting the engine started than I am about engine wear. There's a lot less money involved in plugging in a block heater vs buying new battery's because they aren't testing in the top percentiles.

 

[ultrarunner]

A friend started her car and it rattled for a few moments...

I asked her if it always did that and she said no.

Checked the oil and down a full quart...

Odd because no oils light or low pressure and after a few moments sounded fine...

Added the quart and no more noise.

I would think as long as there is enough oil to flow it should rattle?

 

[CalG]

Well when I use a block heater it's because I'm more concerned about getting the engine started than I am about engine wear. There's a lot less money involved in plugging in a block heater vs buying new battery's because they aren't testing in the top percentiles.

Yup! I've got both the heater and the battery charger on the same stretch. Both go on when it's warm up time.

A warm battery just spins he engine up sooo much better.

 

[Sportsman762]

So my question is for those of you with block heaters and in the colder climates, how long do you leave the heater plugged in before you start it? I live a 2 to 3 hours south of the Canada border and it can get pretty cold at times.

Having a location in your profile would help as 2 hours south of Canada is a whole lot different if we are talking Washington, vs Montana as Cold means something different. When I lived in the Twin Cities in Minnesota there were several factors. Some equipment starts easier in the cold than others. The Ford 555 backhoe was much easier starting than the Allis 7030. With that being said for the Allis we would plug it in if it was 15-35 deg for 1 hour, if it was 0-15 deg then 2 hours. Never used it colder than that. The Ford 555 backhoe we would plug in 0-20 deg for 30 minutes, -10-0 for 1 hour and less than -10 then 3 hours and heat the batter with the charger. The skidsteer with a kubota diesel we would plug in 0-20 deg for 30 minutes, -10-0 for 1 hour and less than -10 then 2 hours.

On a humorus note when I was in Arkansas they would plug equipment in if it was less than 40 degrees. Most of the time it was because their batteries were low cranking amps and old. Also they would cringe when i would let the engine turn over a few times before it would start. More than three turns and they would get jittery.

A few other tricks I learned living in the north. Make sure you have a good battery. One trick we would do on really cold days is to put a battery charger on it with fast charge (do not use a smart charger) then put it on the 200 amp assist when trying to start. It will help warm the battery making starting much easier. Remember cold batteries have severely reduced starting capabilities. You can also heat the intake manifold with a propane torch. I have started equipment that was sitting outside in -30 degree air temp days (windchill was -60's). Patience and use of lots of tricks is what it takes. One -20 deg day we had to start a 80hp diesel for an emergency job. A tarp over the unit with a large propane torch and the block heater going had it going in under an hour.

How well do the digital or mechanical timers work when they get really cold?

What I am trying to convey is that the heating time is temperature and machine dependent. We can all say what we do but it will require experimentation on your part to determine what works. I have no advice on timers. We just would plug equipment in and let it sit or let it heat over night. The block heaters have thermostats to prevent damage.

I didn't think about the holiday type light timers.

Look at the amp rating. They will most likely not be rated high enough and could lead to a potential fire issue. Ex: 1500 watt block heater at 120v is 12.5 amps. Also use a good heavy extension cord. I prefer 12 gauge. The SJTW (cheap cords) thermoplastic insulation will crack and the insulation just flake off in cold weather, I have destroyed many moving them when it was cold. Use a good cord like a SOOW or SJOOW that can handle the cold. They cost more but are worth it especially after getting shocked from a SJTW that failed while it was plugged in.

 

[pmsmechanic]

For me how long I have the block heater plugged in depends.... on how cold it is, how windy it is. When it's convenient for me to go out and plug it in.

I don't get really fussy about it. I'm usually awake around 5 or 6 so if I'm planning on using the tractor or car I'll go and plug them in. By 8 or 9 they are warm enough and ready to go.

I'm not one for letting engines sit and idle to warm them up. I'd far rather just work them lighter for about 10 - 15 minutes. They warm up a lot faster and you don't end up with a lot of unburnt diesel in the oil.

If it's really cold I'll slip the transmission of the tractor into neutral and run the hydrostatic for a minute or so to warm up the oil. The cars both get moved into a heated shop if it's good and cold and we want to go somewhere in the morning. It just takes way less time for everything to warm up.

Another tip is that I take a garbage bag and put it on the grill of the car in cold weather. I'll do the same to the tractor and cover the whole screen. While that helps to warm them up you do need to pay attention to the heat gauge.

 

[Williy]

I just cleaned up my battery cables and coated them so I
should be good for the life of the battery. Our car I idle
approx 2000 ft to warm up then its 3 miles to the hyway
The small 4 cyclender cars heat up pretty fast even in cold
weather

willy

 

[bdhsfz6]

I'm considering a block heater for my new diesel generator but I question the economics. The OEM block heater would draw 500 watts continuously, and based on current electric rates, will cost almost $500 per year to operate. The manual says if operated correctly and warmed up before use, the life expectancy of the diesel is 6000 hours. On average, I use a generator less than 100 hours per year, so in theory it should last 60 years. Over that time, the block heater will use $30,000 worth of electricity. The generator cost $10K and could be replaced several times, instead of paying that much in electric bills.

I realize these numbers are not absolute and can be affected by many things. Electric rates, inflation, machinery costs, using a heater timer or thermostat, etc. will all change the economics. Even if operating the diesel without fully warming shortens it life by half, it will still be more economical to replace the generator than pay for the electricity to keep it warm.

I always warm up my tractors before use, the economics for such an expensive machine are quite different. The auto start transfer switch for the generator only allows a 5 minute warmup before applying load. The manual says it should be 30 minutes when the temp is below 32F.

It doesn't get much below 0 F here anymore and the generator is in an unheated building, which buffers the outside temp somewhat. My diesel tractors all start on the coldest mornings without the aid of a block heater and if the generator does as well, I see no practical need for a block heater.

 

[Oaktree]

I'm considering a block heater for my new diesel generator but I question the economics. The OEM block heater would draw 500 watts continuously, and based on current electric rates, will cost almost $500 per year to operate. The manual says if operated correctly and warmed up before use, the life expectancy of the diesel is 6000 hours. On average, I use a generator less than 100 hours per year, so in theory it should last 60 years. Over that time, the block heater will use $30,000 worth of electricity. The generator cost $10K and could be replaced several times, instead of paying that much in electric bills.

Is this an emergency generator that needs to start in event of a power failure? I guess you have to weigh the cost of running the heater vs the consequences if it doesn't start.
Maybe compromise and run the heater only in winter months?

 

[bdhsfz6]

Is this an emergency generator that needs to start in event of a power failure? I guess you have to weigh the cost of running the heater vs the consequences if it doesn't start.
Maybe compromise and run the heater only in winter months?

Yes, it's a house backup generator.

If I have trouble starting it in cold weather, I may do as you suggest.

 

[RjCorazza]

I am a fan of block heaters, but I would certainly not run a heater 24/7 (even just in the winter) on a standby generator with an automatic transfer switch. That $30,000 number is an eye opener!

I will pre heat my tractor for 3 hours if there is snow in the forecast that I think I'll need to plow. For power outages, by the time my tractor is hooked up to the pto generator it's warmed up enough to transfer power.