FELLING TREE
- Thread starter flINTLOCK
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Go to www.arboristsite.com and read about it and be very careful. An 18" maple can do some serious harm to men and machine as well! Why don't you just take the trail around the tree?
Defective
Platinum Member
Yup...I'm about to come across as a serious *******. So be it.
flINTLOCK,
Based on the questions you've asked, you have absolutely no experience felling trees. The tree in question is heavy enough to pretty much mash you flat when it lands on you.
You need to learn a lot before you can fell it yourself and it's not a skillset you can learn by reading. It has to be hands-on teaching from an experienced teacher. Sorry.
Your two best options in order of preference are to either follow easygos idea of going around the tree or hire someone to cut it for you.
flINTLOCK,
Based on the questions you've asked, you have absolutely no experience felling trees. The tree in question is heavy enough to pretty much mash you flat when it lands on you.
You need to learn a lot before you can fell it yourself and it's not a skillset you can learn by reading. It has to be hands-on teaching from an experienced teacher. Sorry.
Your two best options in order of preference are to either follow easygos idea of going around the tree or hire someone to cut it for you.
Shmudda
Gold Member
That 18" diameter tree is average around the woods of Pennsylvania. While it can be dangerous to cut, with the proper precautions it can be safely done in no time.
First thing is to NOT put any man, machine or equipment within the radius of the trees estimated height as if something does go awire, nothing will be squashed!
What I would do is cut all the branches you can reach up the trunk, even with a small step ladder if possible. If this tree is going to potentially fall into other trees then it gets a tad more tricky, but a tree of this size gravity will really be on your side.
If you want to remove the stump be sure you let at least 4-5 feet of it sticking out to give you some leverage to push, pull or grab onto it.
You have to take a good look at the tree and size it up for which way its leaning. These trees grow pretty straight, so this should not be much of an issue. If it is leaning you don't have many options as to where it will fall unless you attach ropes, cables, and tuggers to get it falling against the leaning direction.
While you can start by cutting a "V" notch in the trunk, taking the notch about 1/2 way into the tree. The notch mouth is pointed in the direction of where you want it to fall. Once this notch is set the direction of the fall is set. Once the notch is cut, go to the back side of the notch, about 3-4" above where the apex of the notch is and begin cutting the tree, be sure to cut it square with the notch. You never want to cut the backcut into the notch on one end, and still have meat on the other side, cut the backcut even and square.
Now, here's will some will differ with me, I typically continue to cut until I see the tree starting to fall, while others will take the backcut so deep and then drive felling wedges into the backcut to actually force the tree over to fall. The felling wedges are safer because you can move all items away from the area prior to forcing the tree over, and you actually have control of the fall rate until gravity takes over.
I personally have been cutting trees for 35+ years and learned from my grandfather what and what not to do. Have I been in some sticky "situations", yep I have, thats where you learn what NOT to do!!! Needless to say the Keister has been puckered a few times.......
Its not hard, just plain old common sense MUST prevail.......
Good luck.....
Craig
First thing is to NOT put any man, machine or equipment within the radius of the trees estimated height as if something does go awire, nothing will be squashed!
What I would do is cut all the branches you can reach up the trunk, even with a small step ladder if possible. If this tree is going to potentially fall into other trees then it gets a tad more tricky, but a tree of this size gravity will really be on your side.
If you want to remove the stump be sure you let at least 4-5 feet of it sticking out to give you some leverage to push, pull or grab onto it.
You have to take a good look at the tree and size it up for which way its leaning. These trees grow pretty straight, so this should not be much of an issue. If it is leaning you don't have many options as to where it will fall unless you attach ropes, cables, and tuggers to get it falling against the leaning direction.
While you can start by cutting a "V" notch in the trunk, taking the notch about 1/2 way into the tree. The notch mouth is pointed in the direction of where you want it to fall. Once this notch is set the direction of the fall is set. Once the notch is cut, go to the back side of the notch, about 3-4" above where the apex of the notch is and begin cutting the tree, be sure to cut it square with the notch. You never want to cut the backcut into the notch on one end, and still have meat on the other side, cut the backcut even and square.
Now, here's will some will differ with me, I typically continue to cut until I see the tree starting to fall, while others will take the backcut so deep and then drive felling wedges into the backcut to actually force the tree over to fall. The felling wedges are safer because you can move all items away from the area prior to forcing the tree over, and you actually have control of the fall rate until gravity takes over.
I personally have been cutting trees for 35+ years and learned from my grandfather what and what not to do. Have I been in some sticky "situations", yep I have, thats where you learn what NOT to do!!! Needless to say the Keister has been puckered a few times.......
Its not hard, just plain old common sense MUST prevail.......
Good luck.....
Craig
Treemonkey1000
Veteran Member
If the tree is out where it can't do much damage to anything if it falls the wrong way then this might be a learning opportunity. Maples are notorious for having rotted centers. That can change things in a hurry. Just guessing that it isn't all that big at 18" it may have not developed rot in the middle. Next thing to look at is where are the biggest or most branches concentrated? If they are favorable to where you want to fall it all the better.. I would be hesitant about lopping off branches from the ground or ladder as they can swing in and swat you. That alone could ruin your day. Next thing to consider if the tree is leaning? Say you have one or two things not in your favor. You can hedge your bets by getting a rope up half way or so. Take that rope out in the direction you want the tree to go. Don't use any cheap nylon or sisal rope. Run that rope to an anchor point around another tree or through a pulley and then out at 90 degrees from your anchor point. Then put some pull on it with human or a vehicle. Also a big word of caution is to look for dead and hanging branches. Those will kill you or hurt you badly if they fall on you or someone else. Always wear a hard hat and glasses! If you use human power and they pull it if you can see the tree flexing that would be a good sign. Often the tree work that I do I will have one or two guys on the rope pulling inline with the tree. The reason I can do that is I have the rope at 1/2 to 3/4 of the way up the tree and have a lot of leverage.
Next thing is to have plastic felling wedges. That size of tree I would have 2-3 wedges. Make the face cut which is the V shape notch facing the direction you want it to fall.Make sure to have the upward and downward cuts meet squarely. Then next step is to start on the back cut. Start your back cut about 1.5- 2" above the middle of your notch on the face cut. Don't go too fast cutting at this point. Once you have sawed in a couple of inches drive a plastic (NOT METAL) wedge in to the cut. You can use these wedges to help force the tree in the direction of the fall as well. The wedges help to keep the tree from leaning back and pinching your saw. Cut in a bit more and pound in another wedge. Keep watching your tree for falling stuff or it is starting to fall. If you have human helpers pulling on a rope don't let them jerk and tug the rope. Just a straight steady pull. They are also your eyes for falling stuff.
Cut in a bit more keeping the wedges pounded in far enough to not touch the chain but putting pressure on the tree to force it over..
That is a quick synopsis. There is more that I could mention.. Did that help?
Next thing is to have plastic felling wedges. That size of tree I would have 2-3 wedges. Make the face cut which is the V shape notch facing the direction you want it to fall.Make sure to have the upward and downward cuts meet squarely. Then next step is to start on the back cut. Start your back cut about 1.5- 2" above the middle of your notch on the face cut. Don't go too fast cutting at this point. Once you have sawed in a couple of inches drive a plastic (NOT METAL) wedge in to the cut. You can use these wedges to help force the tree in the direction of the fall as well. The wedges help to keep the tree from leaning back and pinching your saw. Cut in a bit more and pound in another wedge. Keep watching your tree for falling stuff or it is starting to fall. If you have human helpers pulling on a rope don't let them jerk and tug the rope. Just a straight steady pull. They are also your eyes for falling stuff.
Cut in a bit more keeping the wedges pounded in far enough to not touch the chain but putting pressure on the tree to force it over..
That is a quick synopsis. There is more that I could mention.. Did that help?
Egon
Epic Contributor
They can also knock you off the ladder. When you are standing on the top of an 8 foot step ladder that can mean a hard landing!!!
If you climb higher in the the tree to cut branches they can also knock the ladder over leaving you up a tree without a ladder!!! Yes, I've been guilty of both. I learn slowly. A Darwin candidate. The others have not mentioned wind. Factor that in when cutting.
Me, I'd try my darnedest to plan a way around the tree with the path. Coming from the Prairies it's almost a cardinal sin to cut maple.
Treemonkey1000
Veteran Member
Egon said:They can also knock you off the ladder. When you are standing on the top of an 8 foot step ladder that can mean a hard landing!!!
The others have not mentioned wind. Factor that in when cutting.
Me, I'd try my darnedest to plan a way around the tree with the path. Coming from the Prairies it's almost a cardinal sin to cut maple.
Ergon have you been watching me as I have been working?
Sort of like basic parenting 101. "Do as I say!, not as I do" And I did forget to mention wind. There are so many things that can affect what happens. The tree spinning on the stump is another. And I forgot to mention don't cut all of the way through the "hinge" wood when making a back cut.. Been there.
Egon
Epic Contributor
I have a few trees that are windblown and hung up and a few others that are about two foot diameter standing that I would like to cut but have not yet muster up enough courage. Basically I know very little about felling and do not want to end my learning curve too early.
But I do have two nice Husky saws, a 365 and a 55 with several bars for each so I can always take of the power head and start again if I pinch a bar.
I do have a neighbour whom I intend to get for advice. He can stand well back and have a good laugh! A few years ago I cut a small pine that hung up in an oak. The situation was such that I could cut the oak. It naturally had help from the pine and also hung up upon which there were some obscene utterances in a rather loud voice. 10 minutes later I looked around and saw the neighbour. He'd hear the trees falling and then some shouting and came over to see if I was Okay. Uh I'm know as the "Crazy old man on the hill" in the local area!
I'm not trying to steal the thread but some of my misadventures may be of use to others.
But I do have two nice Husky saws, a 365 and a 55 with several bars for each so I can always take of the power head and start again if I pinch a bar.
I do have a neighbour whom I intend to get for advice. He can stand well back and have a good laugh!
A few years ago I cut a small pine that hung up in an oak. The situation was such that I could cut the oak. It naturally had help from the pine and also hung up upon which there were some obscene utterances in a rather loud voice. 10 minutes later I looked around and saw the neighbour. He'd hear the trees falling and then some shouting and came over to see if I was Okay. Uh I'm know as the "Crazy old man on the hill" in the local area! I'm not trying to steal the thread but some of my misadventures may be of use to others.
Actually I have cut more than 50 similar sized trees with no incidents or even close calls, knock on wood. I was just curious to compare my technique with others here with perhaps more experience. Thanks to all who provided helpful suggestions. Please excuse me for giving you all the impression that I had no clue about the process.
Treemonkey1000
Veteran Member
Hey I am still learning after 20 years of tree work and 40 years of cutting firewood. Knock on wood I have all my fingers and toes and very few scars.
All that was said was just rhetoric more than likely.
All that was said was just rhetoric more than likely.
TheIglu
Bronze Member
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Excuse my ignorance, but why do we start the backcut above the hingepoint? (as in, where the two cuts meet)
I just started felling trees in my yard and would take the backcut on the same plane as the hingepoint. If I was doing something wrong, I'd like to know why before I started on the big boys next week.
I just started felling trees in my yard and would take the backcut on the same plane as the hingepoint. If I was doing something wrong, I'd like to know why before I started on the big boys next week.
Treemonkey1000
Veteran Member
The tree should start leaning forward towards your face cut notch if you do it right. If you cut below the level of the notch the chances are very good the tree will lean backwards and pinch your saw..
vic4news
Gold Member
TheIglu said:
The hinge needs to be about an inch thick on large trees. If you start the backcut even with the hingepoint there isn't enough wood to actually make a hinge.
Vic
DCJL
Silver Member
The front cut should not be an equal "V", but a flat horizontal cut on the bottom with the top cut coming down to meet the bottom cut about 2/3 of the way through the tree. The felling (back) cut then goes horizontal an inch or so above the apex of the front cut. All of this creates a major force (hinge) in the tree to fall in the desired direction. The further you cut the front cut into the tree the more force you put on the tree to fall in the desired direction. Just be sure that the front cut is not so deep that it starts the tree falling before even doing the back cut. The felling cut HAS to be above the apex of the front cut to get the laws of physics and gravity working for you.
The hinge is very important as it controls the desent of the tree. If it is too thin then it is likely to snap. Also it is important to ensure that felling cut is parallel to the 'V'. If it isn't the tree will try to twist in the direction of the thickest part of the hinge.
arrow
Super Member
A poster here advises the V notch to be cut 2/3rd into the tree if I'm reading that correctly. In order to control the rate of fall and to be sure enough wood remains to hold up the tree while making the back cut, I'd advise to make the notch no more then 1/3 thru the tree. This also gives you an opportunity and room to stick in a wedge in back of where the chainsaw is in the tree to ensure the tree doesn't fall opposite your intended fall line. I also notch the tree with the horizontal part at the top rather than the angle at the top. (Make the horizontal then bring the saw up into the horizontal starting the angle cut below the horizontal as opposed to above it) What this does is give you a visual line to start the felling cut above the notch down toward the angle cut of the notch as if you are making a straight diagonal line right thru the tree. Makes for more accuracy for the felling cut to reduce chances of this cut going below the notch which sometimes causes quite the ruckess. Also, some guys like to make the felling cut horizontally and because the notch is angled down, there remains more leeway even if if the felling cut once again goes below the horizontal cut of the notch.
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scuvnut
Silver Member
A few things to emphasize (some posted, maybe one or two not posted)
1. Wear a hardhat
2. Be very careful the tree does not get hung up in another tree - it can be a difficult situation that is not so easily remedied.
3. Take a good look to be sure there is not a significant amount of vines that attach one tree to another. This can create a very dangerous situation as the tree can spin and fall in an unwanted direction.
4. Very important - always map out multiple escape routes and be sure the ground is clear so you don't trip on anything if an emergency situation results.
5. Never cut these down by yourself - accidents happen to even the most experienced tree cutters and someone should be able to assist or call for help if an emergency develops.
Just cut down 4 50+ foot cedars today so all of this was on the tip of my brain!
1. Wear a hardhat
2. Be very careful the tree does not get hung up in another tree - it can be a difficult situation that is not so easily remedied.
3. Take a good look to be sure there is not a significant amount of vines that attach one tree to another. This can create a very dangerous situation as the tree can spin and fall in an unwanted direction.
4. Very important - always map out multiple escape routes and be sure the ground is clear so you don't trip on anything if an emergency situation results.
5. Never cut these down by yourself - accidents happen to even the most experienced tree cutters and someone should be able to assist or call for help if an emergency develops.
Just cut down 4 50+ foot cedars today so all of this was on the tip of my brain!
Treemonkey1000
Veteran Member
Scuvnut and the previous poster had great points. Don't cut 2/3 of the way into the tree. Chances are if it isn't weighted towards the notch it will fall backwards as you have cut away so much of the trunk. This doesn't give you much back cut to work with and steer the tree with the hinge wood. Pounding wedges in is also some good insurance.
So is this tree on the ground yet? I didn't back track through all of the postings to see if it had hit the ground for the original poster.
So is this tree on the ground yet? I didn't back track through all of the postings to see if it had hit the ground for the original poster.
DCJL
Silver Member
My bad, reread the OP and saw it is an 18" tree we're talking about, so....
I agree. if it is large enough to pound in wedges behind the saw then going 1/2 way in and using wedges is the most accurate felling method. But if the tree is not large enough to fit in wedges then going further into it on the front cut give better leverage to the hinge to fall in the desired direction. Also by cutting only 1/2 way in there is more room on the back cut to fit wedges. With an 18" maple there is plenty of room for wedging it.
I agree. if it is large enough to pound in wedges behind the saw then going 1/2 way in and using wedges is the most accurate felling method. But if the tree is not large enough to fit in wedges then going further into it on the front cut give better leverage to the hinge to fall in the desired direction. Also by cutting only 1/2 way in there is more room on the back cut to fit wedges. With an 18" maple there is plenty of room for wedging it.
