Electrical / romex mess

[grsthegreat]

ive used a non contact tester for 20 years. never failed me yet. mind you i use a Fluke model, not a harbor freight model.

 

[jeffgreef]

Romex is not rated for underground burial. Dangerous. But code does not prohibit romex in conduit, FYI. You haven't spoken about the amperage requirements for the water feature pump. Maybe the existing wire isnt big enough to begin with. Take the time and expense to put in conduit, wire and boxes appropriate to the installation. Dont make a poor installation worse by increasing amperage on wire not rated for the installation to begin with.

 

[mbsimpson99]

Can the second wire be the switch leg? Jon

That’s what I was thinking. If the hot leg was wired to the switch you would only have one cable (“Romex”) run out to the light. If someone was thinking ahead (and not stingy with the wire) it makes sense to run the hot leg all the way to the light and run a separate switch leg. That way you have hot, neutral, and ground at the “circle” and can add a receptacle (or a pump for your water feature). If not, everything in the “circle” will have to be switched and will only work with the light on.
Did you just disconnect one cable at the light or were both of them at the light? If not, could they have been spliced before you dug them up? If you just turned off power using the switch then the hot leg would still be hot from the breaker.
That makes sense with one wire dead and one still hot.
Might take a little wire tracing, but if your wire is ok, you already have power for your pump and a switch leg you can use for a new light if desired.

 

[plowhog]

Might take a little wire tracing, but if your wire is ok, you already have power for your pump and a switch leg you can use for a new light if desired.

Makes sense, thanks! I'd probably put the light(s) on the always hot circuit with a photo eye. Then put the water feature on the switched circuit. I'd want the light always working at night no matter what I do, but only use the water feature on demand.

 

[grsthegreat]

Romex is not rated for underground burial. Dangerous. But code does not prohibit romex in conduit, FYI. You haven't spoken about the amperage requirements for the water feature pump. Maybe the existing wire isnt big enough to begin with. Take the time and expense to put in conduit, wire and boxes appropriate to the installation. Dont make a poor installation worse by increasing amperage on wire not rated for the installation to begin with.

A water feature can run fine on 15 amp circuit. Have hooked many up.

 

[Flad]

Holy cow! Is that mains power? I recently had a new shed connected to single phase 240v at 32 amp the cables were all in orange pvc conduit buried 2ft deep with warning tape laid 6" above that before the trench was filled, also had a separate phone and computer lines in the same trench in 3/4 grey conduit 6" spacing from the mains conduit over 120ft in length and mapped on my property all done to code hear in Australia, We also have a Dial before you dig service even in some cases on private property.
I would be buying a lottery ticket if I were you, just luck you didn't put a pick or shovel through the cable.
Was that cable laid to your code?

 

[newbury]

I think this thread has potential. Not quite "pallets" caliber but definitely "stuck bolt".
Does need more actual pictures.

 

[lennyzx11]

I used the attached to do exactly what the OP wanted to do.

UNDERGROUND WATERTIGHT IN-LINE SPLICE #12 - 350MCM

UNDERGROUND WATERTIGHT IN-LINE SPLICE #12 - 350MCM

www.elecdirect.com

 

[Gord Baker]

Probably best to call your local electrical contractor, that wire does not even look like direct bury Romex

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

I turned power off, removed the light and pole, and found two romex lines. One was still hot (don't ask!) They are about 2 feet below current grade, and about 3 feet below what the new grade will be.

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

I know you are not supposed to put romex in conduit. Nor splice wires and have electric junction boxes underground. But I'm stumped on what else to do?

Any ideas?
View attachment 701068

First, you need to find out where the power is coming from. Are there 2 switches that operate it?

Due to liability issues have this done by a licensed Electrician to Code.

 

[plowhog]

Just tie it together. Wrap a gallon zip lock bag around it. Tie the ends of bag. Insert tip of tube of silicone in one end and pump it full. You can move bag around until wire is centered. Leave it alone to cure out. Youre welcome.

Thank you. Hard to believe it took over 90 posts to get to something simple and obvious.

My electrical contractor used gallon zip lock bags for my main service panel.

Seems to work fine, but it's hard getting the panel door closed pushing against all the bags ....

 

[grsthegreat]

Don’t use chinese ziplock bags. They may report back to China about your code violations thru their implanted chips.... you know, a zip loc bag of chips. You’ve must have heard about this.

 

[ChiefBodie]

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

A 120v circuit within 15 feet of a water feature is a code violation without proper bonding and grounding.

You need a lightning arrestor to get back into compliance.

Lightning arrester - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[grsthegreat]

A 120v circuit within 15 feet of a water feature is a code violation without proper bonding and grounding.

You need a lightning arrestor to get back into compliance.

Lightning arrester - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As long as it’s GFCI protected circuit, this does not apply.

 

[somanytractors]

Maybe bring the wire out of the ground and put it on a pole or something maybe with an outlet, and splice it there to a new piece of wire. Then run the new wire the rest of the way?

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I think this thread has potential. Not quite "pallets" caliber but definitely "stuck bolt".
Does need more actual pictures.

I’m thinking pallets could be used, pretty sure it removed the rounded off bolt, oh wait, I didn’t read to the end before responding, I plead guilty, thread police.

 

[crazyal]

So it sounds like the person who installed it wanted to have an outlet at the light as well as having the light on a switch inside the house. It sounds like the OP has a plan and an electrician. If so Plowhog is all set. I think I read where the breaker is an arc flash breaker, if so I wouldn't remove it to install a GFI breaker. Instead I would add a GFI to the circuit. Both offer protection but for different types of faults.

 

[aczlan]

Maybe bring the wire out of the ground and put it on a pole or something maybe with an outlet, and splice it there to a new piece of wire. Then run the new wire the rest of the way?

The op said that they are planning on putting it in a junction box.

So it sounds like the person who installed it wanted to have an outlet at the light as well as having the light on a switch inside the house. It sounds like the OP has a plan and an electrician. If so Plowhog is all set. I think I read where the breaker is an arc flash breaker, if so I wouldn't remove it to install a GFI breaker. Instead I would add a GFI to the circuit. Both offer protection but for different types of faults.

Or a combination Arc Fault and GFI.

Aaron Z

 

[Unclewillie]

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

I turned power off, removed the light and pole, and found two romex lines. One was still hot (don't ask!) They are about 2 feet below current grade, and about 3 feet below what the new grade will be.

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

I know you are not supposed to put romex in conduit. Nor splice wires and have electric junction boxes underground. But I'm stumped on wh

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

I turned power off, removed the light and pole, and found two romex lines. One was still hot (don't ask!) They are about 2 feet below current grade, and about 3 feet below what the new grade will be.

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

I know you are not supposed to put romex in conduit. Nor splice wires and have electric junction boxes underground. But I'm stumped on what else to do?

Any ideas?
View attachment 701068

That's not good but I've run into about the same issue where I had a cut line , after using wire nuts I used metal roofing tape from a roll and smashed the stuff in and all around the wire nuts and when I was sure of a water right seal I taped it up with electrical tape, but my wire was ground contact. More important if your electrical box is run with a neutral ground ,if it's not neutral grounded I wouldn't change it.

 

[plowhog]

I would not hesitate to put it in conduit.

Totally redo that entire segment with conduit.

swap ark fault breaker for a GFCI breaker

I have seen where someone spliced a cable in the ground and over the years the ground movement separated the cables.

you should abandon it and run new - real UF

uf cable should be direct buried and that putting it in conduit is actually more harmful.

solder some UF feeder cable to the end of the existing cable and run a new line.

My opinion on UF cable is to not direct bury it or any other around here (middle California) because of Gophers.

You should not run UF wire through conduit.

I would rather have direct-bury splices than to have j-boxes sticking up next to where people are driving.

If you're not near the limit on current, I wouldn't fret about putting conduit around it for a short distance & sealing the ends where it goes into the conduit with gobs of silicone.

I’m waiting for something being added that points to a government coverup.

What you CAN'T do is pull NM underground in conduit.

The other wire powers a laser cutter:

Maybe the existing wire isnt big enough to begin with.

You need a lightning arrestor to get back into compliance.

the breaker is an arc flash breaker, if so I wouldn't remove it to install a GFI breaker.

after using wire nuts I used metal roofing tape from a roll and smashed the stuff in and all around the wire nuts and when I was sure of a water right seal I taped it up with electrical tape,

A wide range of knowledge and responses .... Thank you all for contributing!!

 

[MossRoad]

Clear as mud.