Electrical / romex mess

[plowhog]

We have a light on a pole in our driveway. Its in a center circle bordered by pavers. I want to replace the light with a water feature.

I turned power off, removed the light and pole, and found two romex lines. One was still hot (don't ask!) They are about 2 feet below current grade, and about 3 feet below what the new grade will be.

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

I know you are not supposed to put romex in conduit. Nor splice wires and have electric junction boxes underground. But I'm stumped on what else to do?

Any ideas?

 

[herm0016]

I would not hesitate to put it in conduit. if you use pvc pipe you can put a cleanout in the pipe and use that as your junction box. use some good connecters and splice. gotta do what you gotta do. it may not be code, but it will work great, keep the connection clean and "accessible" if you dig it back up.

 

[docone]

Probably best to call your local electrical contractor, that wire does not even look like direct bury Romex.

 

[RalphVa]

I ran power to the carriage house and put Romex in conduit. Later work by electrician removed it because we needed some other wires in the conduit for return, etc.

 

[plowhog]

call your local electrical contractor, that wire does not even look like direct bury Romex.

I have one if needed. To replace this romex back to its origin, any electrical contractor would need an excavation contractor, digging through $$$ landscape and hardscape.

 

[plowhog]

I ran power to the carriage house and put Romex in conduit.

I think possible heat buildup is why this is not recommended, but I am not sure. Since my distance is well under 10 feet I'm not sure a heat issue is relevant.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Is that Romex (trade name for NM --Non Metallic Sheath Cable)?

or is it UF (Underground Feeder)?

In general -- UF can be direct buried, Romex/NM cannot.

NM / Romex usually has a paper fill, UF is solid plastic fill.

UF can be run without conduit, but the extra protection is always nice.

 

[grsthegreat]

If that is direct bury uf cable, and not romex, you can dig backwards both directions and use accessible junction box . Place 1 j box at both ends. No problem using underground rated weatherproof wirenuts. Totally legal. Now if the wire is plain old house romex...THATS ANOTHER ISSUE.

 

[/pine]

Just get a waterproof splice kit (can be buried) and extend as necessary...

 

[Diggin It]

I need to move these lines as the new water feature would be sitting right on top of them. I wish they were long enough to get to an electrical box on the edge of the circle, but they are not nearly long enough. And I still need power out there for the new pump.

Can you make a quick sketch?

There are safe ways to splice.

 

[Diggin It]

Now if the wire is plain old house romex...THATS ANOTHER ISSUE.

Looks like it to me.

 

[4570Man]

Either pull it up and replace it right or proceed with hacking. What other options are there? The biggest problem I see is that’s not outdoor wire. I wouldn’t hesitate at all to splice it and put it in conduit otherwise.

 

[plowhog]

Both wires feed into the hole from the same direction.

If expose more wire, I will eventually get to the edge of the circle. I could put a concrete electrical box there, and turn the wire upward into it. No splice. Not ideal, but simply using what was original-- and with no splice. Maybe slip a conduit over the part that turns upward before backfill?

One other oddity. Why two wires? Since there was a light out there, I knew of one wire, and it is switched from the house. As far as I know, it is the only remaining wire after I demolished and rewired the entire house two years ago. Why there is a second wire in the hole is a mystery.

I'm going to clean the jacket on the romex and learn what it is.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Both wires feed into the hole from the same direction.

If expose more wire, I will eventually get to the edge of the circle. I could put a concrete electrical box there, and turn the wire upward into it. No splice. Not ideal, but simply using what was original-- and with no splice. Maybe slip a conduit over the part that turns upward before backfill?

One other oddity. Why two wires? Since there was a light out there, I knew of one wire, and it is switched from the house. As far as I know, it is the only remaining wire after I demolished and rewired the entire house two years ago. Why there is a second wire in the hole is a mystery.

I'm going to clean the jacket on the romex and learn what it is.

2nd wire could be just trash...

 

[Diggin It]

Both wires feed into the hole from the same direction.

If expose more wire, I will eventually get to the edge of the circle. I could put a concrete electrical box there, and turn the wire upward into it. No splice. Not ideal, but simply using what was original-- and with no splice. Maybe slip a conduit over the part that turns upward before backfill?

I do that all the time ... with UF. Protects it from critters and string trimmers.

One other oddity. Why two wires? Since there was a light out there, I knew of one wire, and it is switched from the house. As far as I know, it is the only remaining wire after I demolished and rewired the entire house two years ago. Why there is a second wire in the hole is a mystery.

I'm wondering why one is hot after you thought you turned it off.

 

[plowhog]

I checked and there are no markings on the romex. Looks like black #12, white#12, ground in center, no paper. The ground is enveloped in its own plastic sheath just like the other leads are. (I.e. not "loose" in the center.)

 

[grsthegreat]

If the ground is wrapped, it’s probably uf direct burial wire. But who’s to say for sure. Traditionally UF cable has very heavy insulation that’s hard to cut. But I have seen some out there with thinner outside insulation but still listed uf cable.

 

[MossRoad]

Have you found the breakers for both wires?

 

[Diggin It]

UF tends to have the markings embossed into the sheath rather than printed on the surface. Makes it harder to find on older wire.

 

[civilian]

Can the second wire be the switch leg? Jon