Electric brake testing on old trailer

[sailorman]

Reg, I know the drums are 10 ", plate is 4 bolt, haven 't measure spacing or hole diameter. Haven 't measure drum depth to match shoe width. I 'm planning on Dexter self adjusting 10" x 2 - 1/4" backerplates. By " measure within 1/8 in. ", do you mean drum depth should be 2 - 3/8 " ? Would a deeper drum matter ? Would like to use original drums not to be on the cheap, but to not spend money where it isn 't needed.

Thanks for the heads up on plate bolts. I got a lot of time ( retired ) and bought some soaker stuff today. I plan on breaking nuts before I jack trailer so I don 't have to spend too much danger time under while jacked .

 

[sailorman]

These are all reasons I only run Disc Brakes on my trailer now. I till have drums on my 18' car hauler but the Disc are so much more effective and easy to work on just like with a car.

Chris

What would it take to go disc brakes ?

 

[sailorman]

Just want to thank everyone for offering me great info. !!! It is priceless and I do appreciate any and all feed back. TBN knowledge is more valuable and vast than all the encyclopedias in the world. Because of the friendly help I am a smarter man than yesterday !!

 

[Reg]

What would it take to go disc brakes ?

FIRST thing it takes is KNOWLEDGE that your axles won't put you over 102" (-:
Unfortunately that is the case with one of my trailers, else it would have disks on it NOW !
I have been into it fairly deeply, it would be MAJOR reconstruction surgery to hack the axles down, refit the air ride suspension "stuff" AND be sure that nothing would foul the wheel wells.
Yeah, I would like to, but...
(-:
I ain't going to get measured for wheels that would VERY OBVIOUSLY poke out another couple of inches on BOTH sides.
Getting towed/removed from a weigh station for that would require all sorts of overwidth permits - then the co$ts of slimming it down again.
It is the overall axle lengths that would violate, not the tires and rims or I would try to get reverse dished rims on there.

 

[sailorman]

I know ya 'll like pix so here 's the camper in question in case it helps with the brake questions. Body measures 6' 8" wide, 11' long, 6 ' high. Add 3 ' for tongue. And as soon as I get passed the brake project I 'll start a new thread under project forum :thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

What would it take to go disc brakes ?

I can get a whole kit for about $350 but you would need new wheels because I am sure they do not make them with the lug pattern you have now.

Cost would be prohibitive.


Chris

 

[sailorman]

No, he wants you to measure the width of the shoes to the nearest eighth of an inch. The standard widths come in 1/8" and 1/4" increments, 1 7/8", 2", 2 1/4", 2 1/2" etc.

Thanks for the rely .

yes I understand what you are saying, but it doesn 't matter to me if new brake system matches old if that 's what you 're getting at unless, of course, it does matter for reasons I don 't understand. I 'm just trying to figure out is if my old 10 " drums with whatever their depth is will work with a brand new backing plate with shoes that are 2 - 1/4 ' .

I know I 'm having trouble being clear due to my lack of area knowledge :confused2:, apologies.

 

[Reg]

Thanks for the rely .

yes I understand what you are saying, but it doesn 't matter to me if new brake system matches old if that 's what you 're getting at unless, of course, it does matter for reasons I don 't understand. I 'm just trying to figure out is if my old 10 " drums with whatever their depth is will work with a brand new backing plate with shoes that are 2 - 1/4 ' .

I know I 'm having trouble being clear due to my lack of area knowledge :confused2:, apologies.

No need for ANY apologies, we're all here to help each other - you can pass along other knowledge, pay it forward or somesuch (-:

At least ONE reason that you probably want to stay with the original shoe width and drum depth;
Spindle length, i.e. the space you have available from the shoulder for the inner bearing to the threaded portion where the castle nut fits on.

I have a trailer with 3 3/8 wide shoes, but if I tried to put the corresponding drums from THAT trailer onto the one that has 2 inch wide shoes the outer bearings would be (about) another 1 3/8 out and the chances of getting a spindle nut on - and a cotter pin through the castle nut to hold it ??? ... slim to none (-:

 

[sailorman]

Thanks Reg. Somewhere in my mind I was thinking in that direction about the spindle nut and length stuff. Just couldn 't put into words. That 's why I was concerned with drum depth. Seems clear now that even if I replace everything I better try to do a size match to the original to avoid problems with spindle nut and spindle length. With any luck at all, I may be sleepin' in the camper within say, oh, the next 12 hundreds years :laughing: But what else does a retired guy have to do ? I don 't like fishin'

 

[adjusterr]

Sailorman: Google "Trailer Parts Superstore", they have complete Dexter 10" electric brake assys for $23.00, you cant clean rust off for that price. Good Luck.

 

[sailorman]

adjusterr, that is a good price. The ones I was looking at were self-adjusting and almost twice the price. I really don 't care if they self adjust. Price of drums is a wallet killer for me. Hope I can use my old drums. I did find this Northerntool link to Tie Down brand that sold the whole assembly including drums for $ 219.99 . Tie Down 10in. Electric Drum Brake Kit, Model# 82103 | Drum Brakes | Northern Tool + Equipment That 's $ 20 less than using dexter plates and drums. I ahven 't looked at how each comes out with shipping.

 

[Reg]

Thanks Reg. Somewhere in my mind I was thinking in that direction about the spindle nut and length stuff. Just couldn 't put into words. That 's why I was concerned with drum depth. Seems clear now that even if I replace everything I better try to do a size match to the original to avoid problems with spindle nut and spindle length. With any luck at all, I may be sleepin' in the camper within say, oh, the next 12 hundreds years :laughing: But what else does a retired guy have to do ? I don 't like fishin'

The cross section pictures showing spindle, bearings and drum help.
Also the instructions about adjusting for just a TINY bit of slack, NO pre-load, just barely perceptible looseness - - DO be careful about that.
========================================
Yeah, I never went for fishin' either.
"Retired" ? Dunno what that is, but barefoot waterskiin' beats fishin' - - 'cept fer shoulder dislocations.

 

[sailorman]

Update and newly discovered info - may cause me problems

I found the tag on the axle and it is a Fayette axle with no info on axle load size except for a series of numbers that look more like serial numbers ( company code indicating load ? ). I speculate it would also have Fayette brakes/drums. They don 't look like Dexter but do resemble the few pictures I have found of Fayette brakes/drums. Company no longer exists but may have been bought out by dexter. I have read that Fayette may have used now obsolete bearing sizes.

Now I 'm wondering if Dexter backing plates and drums will even match up bearing size wise for spindle. Guess I 'm gonna have to call Dexter and get voice help. I much prefer that as apposed to stumbling through their web site with my obvious lack of knowledge. Sure hope I don 't have to buy a new axle, backing plates, and drums. Not to mention the trama of removing old and installing new in a safe manner. Dad once told me if I can 't lift it by hand, don 't crawl under it.

btw, is there a way to weigh the rig short of taking it to a scale ?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I know you got a good deal on the trailer but now you can see why I usually tell people to buy new. It usually ends up costing what new does before you know it.

Case in point a guy I do work for who owns a landscaping company. He bought a used 16' tandem axle trailer that needed new fenders, wiring, and wood deck. A coat of paint would not have hurt either. They sell these trailers new for $1400 in my area and he gave $800 for this one. I helped him for free. By the time we were done we put new treated deck on it @ $200. New paint @ $30. New lights @ $40. New brake battery @ $40. New brakes all around @ $150. New fenders at $60. New bearings and seals @ $60. Lots of odds and ends and time. Within a month he had to replace the tires @ $225. You see where he was at when it was all said and done.

Sorry you are having so many issues. Call R&P Carriages if you need more assistance. Paul is a great guy and full of knowledge. I posted the site way back.

As for weighing it the easiest way is to way your truck first then go back with the trailer and do the math. No other real way unless you know someone with portable scales. My local gravel pit does it for free. I just give the guy working the scale a $5 spot every once and a while.

Chris

 

[Reg]

Update and newly discovered info - may cause me problems

I found the tag on the axle and it is a Fayette axle with no info on axle load size except for a series of numbers that look more like serial numbers ( company code indicating load ? ). I speculate it would also have Fayette brakes/drums. They don 't look like Dexter but do resemble the few pictures I have found of Fayette brakes/drums. Company no longer exists but may have been bought out by dexter. I have read that Fayette may have used now obsolete bearing sizes.

Now I 'm wondering if Dexter backing plates and drums will even match up bearing size wise for spindle. Guess I 'm gonna have to call Dexter and get voice help. I much prefer that as apposed to stumbling through their web site with my obvious lack of knowledge. Sure hope I don 't have to buy a new axle, backing plates, and drums. Not to mention the trama of removing old and installing new in a safe manner. Dad once told me if I can 't lift it by hand, don 't crawl under it.

btw, is there a way to weigh the rig short of taking it to a scale ?

Looks like you are well on your way (-:
(to becoming another "History detective")
According to the age there may have been industry standards in place at the time.
I do know that bearing size standards (and numbering/designation system) have have been in place for WELL OVER 50 years.

As far as weighing it without taking it to a scale;
There is (what I regard as) an urban legend that you can "accurately" measure tongue load with a bathroom scale, a short board and a couple of short lengths of black pipe.
Yeah, it looks good on paper, but in reality things on pipes DO roll (hence the term "pipe rollers" for moving heavy machinery).
I don't like the idea of some small number of hundreds of pounds coming at my ankle from a foot or so away, i.e. I probably wouldn't react quickly enough.
So yes, in theory at least you could measure the load on each wheel using a bathroom scale rigged up as one end of a bridge and the wheel somewhere along it.

Probably not worth it, a guess of 85% of the tires' rated max load is probably close enough for everything you are doing (-:

 

[sailorman]

Reg, I sure am learnin ' a lot about a dead company. Still tryin' to pin down the year that Fayette stopped using the weird bearing sizes and exactly what they were. I 'm concerned that the Fayette spindle may not be a match for Dexter stuff.

I have read the tongue weight method. I see no reason why I can 't just put the toungue jacj directly on the scale and get a fair estimate. I hadn 't thought about tryin' to weigh whole trailer by modifying the method.

Not sure if 85 % of tires' rating will work since I 'm changin interior so much. Gutted interior trailer. Using lightest rebuilt materials possible. Not having original heavy stuff like frig., toilet, heater, holding tank or water tank. Kinda Spartan camping rig.

 

[mjw357]

If you are careful and understand what you are doing, you can very accurately determine the tongue weight of the trailer using the bathroom scale/lever method. You cannot accurately determine the total weight of the trailer this way, you can only estimate that the tongue weight is about 10% of the total weight.

Have you looked through local ads for used trailers getting parted out, or maybe called around to local junkyards? Maybe you can find a trailer that got a little busted up that has a modern axle with brakes wheels and everything, that you can just swap out?

 

[sailorman]

You cannot accurately determine the total weight of the trailer this way, you can only estimate that the tongue weight is about 10% of the total weight.

Maybe you can find a trailer that got a little busted up that has a modern axle with brakes wheels and everything, that you can just swap out?

I wasn 't aware of estimating based on 10%. That may well give me a close enough number. I just want to be in the area of my truck 's towing limits.

Not a bad idea on shopping used parts, but I 'd rather buy a new axle with brakes. Its a time/work factor for me. Quicker to drop old and install new rather than drop 2 old and reinstall 1 old . Plus knowing the new is new instead of wondering is replaced old is ok.

 

[Reg]

You're getting there (-:
Don't know what other experience you have had with bearings, but they're pretty much generic.
You can usually drive then in/out with the closest size socket on an extension, if you are CAREFUL to not hit actual bearing surfaces.

Once you get them out and clean them up you should be able to find their numbers, usually etched into the inner or outer bit.
If they have been in grease/oil all this time the etch won't be rusted out.

Lets see,,, somewhen around '66 or '67 I had to write some programs for sorting bearing orders by bearing number and to this day I recognize SOME bearing numbers, so it is a WAY OLD standard numbering/lettering system.

See if this link works for you;
Emerson Bearing - Advanced Search

If not start at actionbearings.com and follow links to taper roller bearings, then to search by inch sizes, etc.

 

[sailorman]

Thanks Reg for the bearing link. It will help my understanding.