Do I need a tractor?

[Gary Fowler]

I really doubt any of us tractor owners could really justify the cost of the tractor and equipment versus hiring any job done, but to me it is worth the cost to be able to go out, get on the tractor and get the job done rather than calling around for someone who may or may not show up and then half-axe the job. I have over $65K invested in tractors and equipment and don't regret buying any of them at the time of purchase. I could now divest my larger one if I wanted to as it doesn't do much but when I needed it a few weeks ago to finish putting a large oak on the ground that has split in half when it was blown over in a storm, the big LS 70 HP pulled it around and laid it on the ground without endangering me or someone who would have had to come cut it (it was too big for any of my saws to reach thru) I would have had to hire a dozer to come in and do that for me as substantial cost if I didn't have the tractor.
Like others have said, there is a certain satisfaction in doing things yourself and in a timely manner.
A small B26XX or B29XX series with FEL would do anything you needed around your place for around $16K or add in a quick attach back hoe with sub frame and be ready to dig whatever you need.
I just ran out this afternoon and fixed some areas that I found when mowing my 5 acre yard with my ZTR mower this morning. I saw several spots that had some embedded rocks that were just about up enough to hit the mower so I dug them up. I also had some landscaped rocks that I has gotten too close to with the mower and moved them about 10" before I could stop on the steep grade. They were too large to move by hand but by using the backhoe bucket with the thumb, I was able to pick them up and set them back in place without a back strain. Then I had a root coming off an Elm tree that was too high to mow over so I used the back hoe to break it and remove the above ground portion. Less than an hour later the tractor was back in the shed. I will get my Kubota RTV 900 with the hydraulic dump bed out tomorrow and load up the roots and rock for disposal.
Not something I would have hired someone to do and would have taken a lot of pickaxe work and chopping to get up the rocks and roots so likely I would have ended up not doing it and then ruined a spindle on my mower eventually.

Have I got my money back on my backhoe? Well, I have put about 150 hours on it doing backhoe or combination BH /FEL work that I couldn't do with my larger tractor, so if I had had to hire that done I would have paid a lot more because many of the hours were put on in increments of less than an hour. Most contractors have 4 hour minimum @$65 per hour. Some things you just don't want to let pile up and then try to do all at once. I put in over 200 feet of extra sprinkler system with it also, ran additional water faucets to outland locations, dug out a dry creek bed so it would hold some pools of water during drought, dug up trees, stumps, moved brush, dug holes for planting trees and shrubs for the wife (previously shovel work or if lots would borrow my B-I-L's post hole digger but the BH is so much more fun and practical. Folks that don't have a backhoe really don't realize the uses you have for one till you get it. They aren't that hard to take off either, at least not on my Kubota B26, maybe 5 minutes and then another 10 to install all the 3 PH arms and stabilizers.

 

[Blackjackfarm]

A few thoughts Doc:

1) Many years ago I was complaining to a dear Aunt about how busy I was and she said to me "You can hire someone to do some of that" - the light bulb went on for me, I haven't changed the oil in any of my vehicles since. Keep your lawn service. Same with the snow removal, let someone else do it, save your time for what you like to do, plus you're not out in the heat in the summertime or freezing weather in the winter.
2) If you buy something at the right price, you can always sell it later without losing much money. Buy a small tractor, in five years, if you don't use it much, sell it.
3) I wouldn't have a tractor without a front-end loader, there are so many things that you can lift, carry, pull, you'll find uses for it.
4) Another option for you would be a 4 wheeler, with a blade you can do snow removal, with a small trailer you can haul stuff, the kid can drive it, or get a side by side, you can tool around all over your acreage.

Good luck!!

 

[OldMcDonald]

cardiologist, Another thought - How important is it that you must not have damaged hands or fingers? Having known a few surgeons whose livelihood depended upon being able to continue to perform operations I could understand them not participating in the sort of activity where their work ability might be compromised. If you start messing about with tractors and equipment you will be like the rest of us and have the occasional damaged finger.

 

[hdmyers]

I need your help. I am not sure if I need a tractor, but would like one. Here is my situation...

I just bought a house on 5.8 acres. About 2.5 acres needs to be mowed, and we have a very cheap lawn service that mows it for about $65 every other week. They also snow plow our long driveway for about $45 each time. It's about 300 feet long. We do not have any farm animals. We have a fruit tree orchard and have about 10 apple trees.

My thoughts are that if we get a sub-compact utility tractor, we'd get the mid mower option, but I'd still rather have the company come do our lawn. They bring about 3 zero-turn mowers and finish in less than an hour. I can't beat that. But the tractor can be used to spray the lawn, spread fertilizer, aerate the lawn, and maybe even do our own snowplowing. The lawn service only cuts, they don't do fertilizers or aeration or crabgrass prevention. No one will care for your lawn better than you will, and I plan on making the lawn look a lot better. They don't care about weeds and crabgrass. I think it'd look a lot better if I did that other stuff.

Can a tractor with just a front loader do a good job at snowplowing? Or would a dedicated blade be necessary? Also, we do have to do some limbing and cutting down of limbs on our forest, could a tractor help in that? I do have a Cushman Haulster that I have been using to haul limbs, fallen branches, and all kinds of other stuff back and forth. Any thoughts on this?

We do have a pine tree forest, and the trees are infected with fungus and will eventually either fall down, or need to be chopped down. There are about 300 of these. I do not need to do this soon, but eventually it needs to happen.

Also, I want to plant more pine trees and other trees to replace the trees that have decayed. Will a front end loader suffice, or is a back hoe necessary? The prices I've seen to add a backhoe seem a bit crazy, should I worry about the backhoe later on? I don't want to rent a mini excavator every time I pick up a tree to plant.

How good are the wood chippers that you can get for SCUTs? I'm thinking John Deere 1 series or Kubota BX series. What size wood will they chip and is it worth even doing that? Or just pile up the wood and rent a serious wood chipper?

Can the front end loader actually dig, grade land, or be used to remove the top 4-6 inches of sod? Do these tractors 17-26 horsepower have enough oomph to dig up dirt and sod and remove it?

What else can tractors do around the property? What all uses have you found for them on non-farm type properties. Just a house, some land, and some woods. I don't want to be one of those guys that buys everything just to have it and let it sit in my garage. But for about $250 a month, I don't see it as a huge expense. I'm just wondering if it will add enough value and earn it's keep.

I'm thinking of a tractor in the range of 12-16k or so. Any thoughts? Do I really "need" one, or is it more of a luxury item that will just sit in my garage and do nothing? I'm sure if I had it, I could find random stuff to do.

You all are more experienced than me, so please chime in and let me know. I am a new homeowner and need some advice.

Leave the trees standing....even dead. they provide a refuge for wildlife...and will eventually contribute to the forest. i used to pull standing dead trees for firewood...now i leave them where they are to feed many creatures.

 

[OldMcDonald]

hdmyers, No disrespect intended, but I have noticed a few people on this forum copy complete very long posts. Why? The more space that a post uses, the longer it is for those of us in the backwoods to see them appear. Please everybody, copy as little as possible to help us poor peasants to keep up to date.

 

[Reddernecked]

I would vote for you to get a tractor, 30 HP 4wd, that is like new less than 500 hours or there about, well taken care of. If you take care of it, and service it when required you will regain quite a bit of your money invested when it is time to sell. The attachments are something you will just want to learn by trial and error, but a blade for snow plowing is something that you can certainly do and feel good about. You will very likely come to trust and enjoy a decent compact tractor as a good "friend" as you use it and learn it. Always operate safely, and you will learn things about operating a tractor that you never imagined possible. I say get the tractor Doc. I also say ask the knowledgeable folks here for questions about anything. Well done, and Good luck! Keep us posted!

 

[flusher]

You sound conflicted. Here's a thought--buy a cheap used tractor (Ford 8N, Farmall A or Super A, Massey Ferguson 35 or 135, there are many, many others you might consider) and a used 5-ft wide brush hog and see how it goes. If you take to the "Green Acres" experience, then maybe get additional implements. If you find that it's not working out, you can sell the stuff on Craigslist or eBay and move on with your life.

Good luck.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Reddernecked, You advocate buying a "nearly new" tractor, so I assume there are a few available. Why?

Can I suggest it is because people like cardiologist have bought them, rarely use them because they do not really need them, have little spare time anyway. and then sell them on, losing a lot of money in the process.

Gary Fowler says at the top of this page that very few of us could justify the cost of a tractor and equipment. I could not run my farming business without a tractor and necessary equipment.

You see it all depends on what you are doing and why. "Boys' Toys" is an expression used in some countries for those people who just want to play around with things - and why not? I am sure everybody on here who does not really "need" a tractor is doing a lot more to increase their financial worth than if they spent the same money on a boat and just went wandering about the ocean in their spare time. If you work like crazy for somebody else for 40 to 60 hours a week or more then you deserve to be able to enjoy yourself in the little spare time you have.You want a tractor, so have a tractor. You are a long time dead so enjoy life when you can. But, all this does not mean that it is a good idea for cardiologist to have a tractor too.

 

[Reddernecked]

Old MacDonald,

The good Dr. came here to get advice on buying a tractor, and asking if he needs one. You are implying the Dr. doesn't need one. Am I right on that implication?

I've personally driven many tractors and I certainly have enjoyed the fun and experience that comes from that very thing. You are right, I am absolutely saying there are deals out there, and buying a good used tractor certainly takes the cost of new prices off of the investment, by thousands. The Dr. stated he wanted to spend 12 to 16k, but mostly came here asking if he needed a tractor.

Again, I vote for the Dr. to enjoy buying a nice used, well taken care of compact tractor, and if he doesn't use it later down the road, then its going to be a deal for someone that will, and the Dr. isn't losing a lot of money for his stab at proudly owning a tractor.
I am thinking the Dr. will enjoy owning it, and use it, and experience some pretty fun stuff with it. He also states he has children, and they too can learn to operate a tractor, which all of us tractor operators learned when we were 8 or 9 years old, or there about.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
Can I suggest it is because people like cardiologist have bought them, rarely use them because they do not really need them, have little spare time anyway. and then sell them on, losing a lot of money in the process.

There are also a lot of people moving up in size and selling the small one and people getting just too old to need one.

I daresay most of the people who lose lots of money are easily separated from their money in other ways.

In another thread:

A friend has a 2008 B-7610 with front end loader, 60 inch belly mower, grader box and blade. On Monday he had his dealer service it with 400 hours.
He wants $12,000 for everything. It's a 2 hour ride so I was wondering if it might be worth making the trip to look at it.
Thanks for any opinions !

and I replied:

I paid 11, 500 for my 2007 B7610 (240 hrs and just serviced) w/ FEL, boxblade, chains and 2007 18' trailer back in 2009.
I paid 11.5k for my M4700 (1,400hrs) in Jan 2013.
I'm amazed at prices now.

so:
in 2013 a 2008 B7610, 400 hrs, FEL, BB, MMM, grader box for 12K
versus
in 2009 a 2007 B7610, 240hrs, FEL, BB, 18' Hudson 12K trailer for 11.5K

My point is if you buy used with care you may not lose money. Buying NEW is different, but from reading here most seem to get about 10% to 15% off list. (also I'm pretty sure I could sell my tractor, BB, and trailer for what I paid 4 yrs ago)

Well cared for tractors have not been depreciating greatly. But the bargains are there because some people can't think very far ahead and find they "have to sell it now", and if you are standing there with the cash you can take advantage of the situation.

 

[Larro Darro]

Well cared for tractors have not been depreciating greatly. But the bargains are there because some people can't think very far ahead and find they "have to sell it now", and if you are standing there with the cash you can take advantage of the situation.

This is true. Five or six years ago my boss's father had a heart attack and was told by his doctor not to garden anymore. He sold me the B7500 with 102 hours on it, a 42" Bush Hog, 5' tiller, 5' boxblade, lift-boom, middle buster, cultivator and a duel axle trailer to haul it all on for $7500. I had been looking for over three years for the right deal. When he offered it to me for that price, I almost sprang my wrist getting my checkbook out.

Six months later he bought himself another tractor and he has been gardening ever since. His health has got a lot worse lately. I wonder if he would want to sell his new tractor?

 

[k0ua]

This is true. Five or six years ago my boss's father had a heart attack and was told by his doctor not to garden anymore. He sold me the B7500 with 102 hours on it, a 42" Bush Hog, 5' tiller, 5' boxblade, lift-boom, middle buster, cultivator and a duel axle trailer to haul it all on for $7500. I had been looking for over three years for the right deal. When he offered it to me for that price, I almost sprang my wrist getting my checkbook out.

Six months later he bought himself another tractor and he has been gardening ever since. His health has got a lot worse lately. I wonder if he would want to sell his new tractor?

Man that was a deal, I got 8400 out of my 2002 in 2010, I had 100 more hours on mine (DT model) no implements, and dang sure no trailer.

 

[Larro Darro]

Man that was a deal, I got 8400 out of my 2002 in 2010, I had 100 more hours on mine (DT model) no implements, and dang sure no trailer.

I had the 3930, plus a couple of riding mowers, so I could afford to wait. That is the key to good deals. Well, that and a whole lot of luck.

 

[Reddernecked]

Points well made Newbury! I totally agree, good used well cared for tractors are fantastic deals these days. My Dad bought a 24 horse Kubota in 1978, I want to say it was a 24L, but don't quote that model number I am a Ford/New Holland guy and I just don't remember it exactly to give the model number. He also got a very nice tiller attachment, and bushog, and I can't remember what else he got, maybe a finish mower? He paid 7,000.00 and tax. We used that for our entire upbringing and then some and 37 years later, we sold that tractor for 3k. The buyer never blinked. That was May 2013! Point is that was VERY well used and still brought half the money he paid brand new. Dad and I, and another fella all 3 bought a New Holland TC 30 in 2007 all less than 30 hours. We bought 3 by 9 forward gears. The price was 9900.00~ I am pretty confident I could get the money back for my tractor today, as its been very well taken care of, and the new prices on like tractors are not 9900.00! Last I knew they were 12,300.00 or so. And this is the economy sized compact. They only go up, WAY up in price and power as you are well aware. Sounds like you have made some great purchases there! Good for you!

 

[Reddernecked]

Holy moly you did real well too Larro! Good for you!

 

[Larro Darro]

Reddernecked, I'm hoping to buy a 24 year old B1750 with a 48" woods RFM from my work. I used it for over half of those years, so I know it has been well cared for. I think they are going to ask $1.5K. That is what one of the board members told me anyway. It looks kind of rough, but still works great. They bought a new scag, so they can let the 'bota go.

 

[cardiologist]

Thank you all once again. A lot to think about. I agree with buying something used and letting someone else take the initial depreciation hit. I've never been one to be wasteful. I'll get something older with more attachments and implements. You'll get much more for your money.

I agree with the above, a lot of the low hour used tractors are probably someone who wanted to upgrade to a bigger tractor.

 

[drjay9051]

Do you NEED a tractor, most likely no. I'd venture to say unless you or any other forum members are on an active farm producing crops etc you (we) do not need a tractor. In the long run many of us would be ahead of the game financially if we just rented equipment on a daily basis.

Sounds like you want a tractor. in spite of medicare cuts, costs of EMR implementation and other hits to medical practice you likely can afford the lawn service. That is really not the issue.

i disagree with those who suggest you save your soft hands and let others do the work.

There is something therapeutic about cranking up the tractor, cutting some grass, digging some holes etc.

Like yourself several years back i asked myself "do i need a tractor", NO. However I wanted a tractor and am glad I purchased one. Does wonders for my serenity to climb aboard. Cheaper than an analyst and safer than benzodiazapines (think Valium, Xanax etc).

Get the tractor , get a mower , get a box blade and have some fun. I gave up golf for mountain biking and tractor work. Just seems like a better fit in my case. Yes at the end of the day I am sweating, dirty and stink but my inner self is serene, contented and destressed.

Why look back and think "Why didn't I..."

BTW: When you get your tractor look into a flail mower instead of a rotary cut. There is a whole thread on flail mowers in the implement sub forum.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Old MacDonald,

The good Dr. came here to get advice on buying a tractor, and asking if he needs one. You are implying the Dr. doesn't need one. Am I right on that implication?

He also states he has children, and they too can learn to operate a tractor, which all of us tractor operators learned when we were 8 or 9 years old, or there about.

Yes, you are correct that I think he does not need one. I am not quite alone on that. He did say in his opening post that he wants one but wondered if he needs one. Given his high pressure occupation I know he needs some relaxation, and he needs to spend quality time with his family. He cannot have very much spare time - and he told us at #35 the other things he does in addition to his "normal" workload. That post threw it for me, although as can be seen from my earlier posts, I was leaning towards him hiring people to do his grass cutting etc. If he was in a different occupation I would think differently. I bought a 163 acres working farm when I was in a fairly senior public service job, but had no commitments other than the job (which I soon afterwards gave up) and enjoyed nothing better than to unwind doing useful farm work with my little grey Fergie so long as there was daylight. I had been brought up on a smallholding and owned one of my own prior to buying the 163 acres so I was well experienced in agricultural work on a smaller acreage. I bought another two tractors and used all three daily. Cardiologist is in a different position to me. He does have other commitments.

Even Murph at #36 questioned what he wanted to do. Then lilranch2001 at #38 and TripleR at #40 reached the same conclusion as me from his post at #35. dragoneggs at#41 and Blackjackfarm at #62 questioned his need. Since he said in his OP that he wanted one, I reckoned he had already decided to buy something, just unsure what.

In turn, are you advocating that children should begin using tractors at a young age? If so what age, bearing in mind the number of fatalities around the world involving young children and tractors. I have already made the point that some countries have laws prohibiting kids using, and even riding on, tractors until their early teens. It has dramatically reduced the number of accidents involving children, although it still happens. A boy of 10 or thereabouts has been killed in the UK within the last couple of weeks. I do not know the details.

 

[pinetree10]

I own 2.5 acres that is mostly dense 80-foot pine and maple trees and this year I bought a JD 2720 (31 HP) with a FEL and a Wallenstein BX42 chipper. The tractor came to around $20K with the loader, ballast box, and extra front and rear work lights. I didn't want to buy something too small or underpowered and I made the right move. I don't have much grass so I mow it with a push mower. If you don't want to spend hours mowing then forget about the mower and pay the zero turn guys unless you're not happy with the quality of their work. I can't imagine you have much time to mow all that grass every week with your occupation. I use the chipper several times a year to keep the fallen branches in check. There's a constant bed of chips wherever branches fall and I don't have to look at a slowly building pile of branches all year long. I used to rent a large chipper at $250 a pop each year but after several years I realized I could have put that money toward my own chipper and used it whenever I wanted without worrying about getting it returned in time.

Before I bought the tractor I didn't think I would need a loader but I've used it often enough to justify it already. It's great for moving topsoil (moved 46 yards this summer) and cut wood when I have to take care of fallen trees. Beats the slow and tedious wheelbarrow I used to use for these tasks. If you think your trees will produce a constant workload over the years then maybe a grapple would be a practical investment because carrying limbs in the loader is not always easy or practical. I'd love to have a grapple because I think they're cool but my workload doesn't justify it.

As far as the snow goes I have a 100-foot driveway with a huge turnaround area and I clear it with a 32-inch JD 1332 walk-behind snowblower in about 20 minutes on average. I'd rather have the larger blower on the front of my new tractor but the 1332 is only 5 years old and I can't justify replacing it. Blowing snow is fast and doesn't dig up the lawn but if you want a blade that's pretty fast too. I just think blowing it leaves it looking neater and saves the grass. I've tried moving snow with my dad's tractor in the past and the loader takes too long for my taste. I wouldn't bother with the backhoe unless you think you'll use it for other tasks. Like other posters said, you can buy or rent a post hole digger or just use a shovel if the trees are small enough.

I did use my loader to excavate a 12x24 hole for a swimming pool and it worked great because the soil is sandy. I think it pounds on the tractor though and would recommend using the loader to move material rather than for excavation. The loader does work well for grading new topsoil once you get the hang of it. Keep in mind that my tractor is a CUT and not a SCUT so the smaller tractors may behave quite differently because they're lighter depending on what you're doing.

I also use the tractor to pull the wood splitter into and out of the woods. It's been a great investment for me already. I see your point about not buying things and then having them sit around, but when I need my new equipment it's right there and ready to go. If I use it a few times each year it's worth it in my opinion. You came to the right place for advice as you can see already.