Dealing with Low City Water Volume

[ustmd]

So Mom (going to be 84) has just moved to Brookfield, MO to live across the street from my bachelor brother. We bought her a 90 year old house at a very good price, knowing the place needed work. (I and another son are in Texas, the rest are spread out across the country).

I was just up there for 3 days helping her get settled and do some work on the place. My brother has found a very reliable handy man who is doing much of the work at a good price.

One of the surprise issues we have had with the house is the water pressure/supply volume from the city water. We just replaced all of the plumbing (mix of galvanized and copper) with PEX (3/4" & 1/2") and installed a pressure boost pump (a common installation in that area). The supply line from the city is 1/2" copper (at least that is what is coming through the wall of the basement to the meter). If we run one of the faucets with a flow restrictor (e.g. the sink or shower), you get a decent flow rate/pressure, but you open two at the same time, it drops off dramatically. Try to fill the new washer, you get good pressure/flow initially, but then it drops to an anemic flow. I timed the fill rate on the washer and at 8 minutes, we were only 1/3 full on the washer.

I do not have the pressure reading from the city, but I am speculating that the house has a low supply from the city. The boost pump can charge the lines and keep up an okay pressure at low flows, but at higher flows there is an insufficient volume of water coming in.

In a perfect world, this is a city issue and they should resolve it (everything on our side of the meter is good), but it is a small town and my brother tells me the city manager is reluctant to resolve issues that this if he doesn't have to. My bother, however, is talking to the city to see what they can/will do.

Assuming however that the city stonewalls, what other solutions can we look at? I was wondering about a reservoir with a float switch to hold water to meet high demands (Mom's occasional shower and her 3-4 loads of laundry per week) or would a well pressure tank help?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[SandburRanch]

Does your brother's house have a similar flow problem?

 

[BethelHntr]

You might end up installing a water storage tank if the city refuses to help, Here's a source for storage tanks.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=VA4xoNQ2WQVNS4543hBk7A&bvm=bv.99804247,d.cGU

 

[ustmd]

Does your brother's house have a similar flow problem?

No, but my brother's house looks like it was built after my mother's, by a different builder. My mother's house is 1 of three built at the same time (looking at the design, front doors, etc). I am wondering if it was one house with some acreage that was sub-divided into 3 places and the main was never upgraded.

 

[kenmac]

Does your brother's house have a similar flow problem?

I would have that same question.. He doesn't mention his brother having any water pressure issues, and he is across the street from his 84 yr old mom..If the city is having water pressures, it should also affect his brother

 

[boggen]

run a tee right after water meter, then a pressure gauge, then place a valve, and then a garden hose connection. run garden hose outside to a cheap kiddies pool. and see what happens. if you have issue at this point. it will be on the city / water department problem.

it could very well be that the hose running from the main water outside, to the house simply has a "kink" in it. was not buried deep enough and some bozo ran over area of pipe with a heavy truck / load, old clogged up due to heavy minerals in water (hard water), who knows what.

=============
you can get well tanks / well pressure tanks that can help. and might be suggested for a booster pump. so pump is not constantly kicking on/off when ever someone turns on a faucet.

 

[Egon]

Try and get a plan of the water lines in the area. Might give you an idea of what is happening. You can then make a desision on how to proceed.

 

[jcbGM]

Is all of the service from the meter to the house copper? I've seen older services that were galvanized (or portions near the meter galvanized) and those sections were about 90% plugged with scale. Only pinholes through the scale for flow.

 

[Deere Dude]

Is the main valve with the meter by the street or in a basement of some sort?
I would check the pressure and flow right inside the house. It might be the valve is not opening all the way. If that has slow flow, then I would dig downstream by the meter and put a tee in like boggen mentioned. It must have been alright at some point but only a 1/2" copper line seems pretty small.

 

[MossRoad]

It's probably nothing to do with pressure at all, more likely a flow restriction somewhere. If you put a pressure gauge in the house just inside the meter you'll probably see good pressure. However, as soon as you open a faucet or turn on the washer to fill, you'll see the pressure drop.

First order of business is as someone mentioned, put a TEE directly after the meter. Put a hose bib on that TEE and time how many seconds it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket from that hose bib to find your gallons pre minute. Also, put a pressure gauge on that hose bib to get a reading when all the faucets are shut off. Then open a faucet and see what the pressure drops to.

With that information in hand, then call the water department and ask them to check the shutoff valve in the street/treelawn/yard, etc.... to see if its open all the way. Then ask them to check the meter for flow. As others have mentioned, there can also be buildup inside the pipe on either side of the meter that can prevent flow, but allow good pressure when the water is off.

 

[MossRoad]

Duplicate

 

[kenmac]

1/2'' Copper is only 3/8'' id..
You aren't going to get much flow / volume supplying a home through a 3/8'' od line

 

[4570Man]

I think the problem is the 1/2 supply line. I would rerun it with at least 3/4 ideally 1". I would be surprised if that doesn't fix the problem.

 

[MossRoad]

1/2'' Copper is only 3/8'' id..
You aren't going to get much flow / volume supplying a home through a 3/8'' od line

I think the problem is the 1/2 supply line. I would rerun it with at least 3/4 ideally 1". I would be surprised if that doesn't fix the problem.

The OP states its 1/2" from the city before the meter. Most places you can't change that without the city's approval.

 

[kenmac]

The OP states its 1/2" from the city before the meter. Most places you can't change that without the city's approval.

That is usually correct.. And, I was assuming 1/2 copper tubing.. it could be hard copper... 3/8 copper tubing or 1/2 hard copper.....it's still to small to supply most homes..
I don't install anything smaller than 7/8 copper tubing, which is 3/4 id..

Either the city doesn't have enough water to supply the homes, or they don't know what the're doing..

 

[MossRoad]

...

Either the city doesn't have enough water to supply the homes, or they don't know what the're doing..

Say it ain't so! :laughing:

At our first house we had low flow. There was 3/4' coming in from the street to our meter in our basement. Use more than one thing, or try to run a sprinkler and do the laundry and neither was going to happen fast. We finally broke down and called the city. Pleasantly, they came out and changed the meter. They said the old meters had restrictions. New meter was all it took. No charge. :thumbsup:

 

[dadster4]

The city is required to provide a minimum gpm flow at a minimum pressure to the meter in your home. Notify them of your situation and they should send someone out to check on your problem. It could be as extreme as excavating your supply line to see if it is damaged, leaking, or undersized for current requirements. Then again it could be as simple as the service valve not being fully opened, they often shut off this valve while homes are vacant between sales. You pay taxes for them to provide this service.

 

[arpt209]

I had the same problem years ago. I was told by the city that everything from the City main to the house was mine. I had a 365' run of 3/4" copper. Problem was it "T"'d off to the neighbor. He flushed his toilet I couldn't get a drink until his tank filled. I bit the bullet & ran a new copper line. I wanted to use 4" but would have to pay a commercial rate for water. Too expensive. I ended up running 2&1/2". Biggest I could legally use for residential rate. When the City Inspector came out for final inspection before trench was backfilled he tried to tell me the line was too big. I showed him my permit, receipt for permit & a copy of the City Code showing I could use 2&1/2 inch. He went away saying he was going to look into it. Bottom line "GET IT IN WRITING'. It did fix the water pressure/volume problem. With a regular hose nozzle I stripped the old paint off the garage to repaint it. When you washed the car you had to be careful not to blow things off it that weren't supposed to come off. I had a couple of faucets blow off but just had to turn the knob off so water quit spraying on the ceiling. Bigger supply line should solve the problem in my experience.

 

[dadster4]

I had the same problem years ago. I was told by the city that everything from the City main to the house was mine. I had a 365' run of 3/4" copper. Problem was it "T"'d off to the neighbor. He flushed his toilet I couldn't get a drink until his tank filled. I bit the bullet & ran a new copper line. I wanted to use 4" but would have to pay a commercial rate for water. Too expensive. I ended up running 2&1/2". Biggest I could legally use for residential rate. When the City Inspector came out for final inspection before trench was backfilled he tried to tell me the line was too big. I showed him my permit, receipt for permit & a copy of the City Code showing I could use 2&1/2 inch. He went away saying he was going to look into it. Bottom line "GET IT IN WRITING'. It did fix the water pressure/volume problem. With a regular hose nozzle I stripped the old paint off the garage to repaint it. When you washed the car you had to be careful not to blow things off it that weren't supposed to come off. I had a couple of faucets blow off but just had to turn the knob off so water quit spraying on the ceiling. Bigger supply line should solve the problem in my experience.

Wow! Sounds like an episode of "Tim the tool man Taylor" turbocharging his plumbing system!
I think a 1" supply line handles a 4 bath home just fine

 

[bigtiller]

365' is a long ways to go for a 3/4" line, especially when it is servicing 2 households.