Buying American

[mjncad]

That IS where the problem lies, fair trade not free trade.

Exactly! Trade should be a win-win for both parties in a perfect world.

 

[Ken45101]

Exactly! Trade should be a win-win for both parties in a perfect world.

Not necessarily always a win-win. I can see instances where trade barriers are important. For example, back in the '80s, Brazil had extremely high import taxes to encourage the growth of their own industries instead of having zero industrial capability of their own.

Ken

 

[sal64]

From The Desk Of Donald Trump: China Is Laughing... - YouTube

 

[Ken]

I realize many Americans may not like to hear this but if you don't want imports from other countries , does that include Canadian oil? electricity ? Wood?
Where does it stop , because as soon as you start becoming protectionist against Canadian products (or other country products) you would need to be prepared when those countries add a tax on oil or other items you need thus raising your costs to get reliable products. Or worse other countries will start to become protectionist also and soon you are only selling your products in the 50 states.
It is a fine line to walk, and I recognize the passion of trying to save USA jobs, but as much as all of Canada and USA hate seeing the import of substandard products and substandard working and environmental standards, from China and Indonesia etc....we need to make sure we don't effect the countries closer to you that do apply very similar standards to yours and deserve a more level "free trade approach". So those protectionist measures should be very focussed on just those countries that abuse the patent laws and enviro and work standards.

Sincerely
From a Canadian who drives an American Dodge truck and USA made Kubota and a Lincoln Welder , (but prefers his Canadian beer !)[/QUOTE

Jake I work with dairyman friend who travels from Arkansas to and we will be in Lansing, Mich. next week to purchase a load of pedagreed Canadian Holstein cows. sometime Bulls.It is easier to get the cattle brought in by Canadians than go into canada and load.

I have found traveling into Canada for our vacations are great.getting back in the States sometimes customs is hard nosed.
Used to use American money with out problems by last trip try to give a $100.00 bill for fuel and they handed it back with comment have a crecit card. same in stores again just credit cards.
ken

 

[mojoinco]

Ok, had to comment on a couple of things:

Vehicles are required to post where major items are made ("content"). Final assembly point doesn't tell you much about where most of the money went to make something, nor where the companies that made the components are. And all of this misses another point: where are the various companies headquartered -- which is where the profits ultimately get moved to. Yes, a lot of it stays in country for going back into the local division of the company, or flows to the place where it costs the least to move to (less taxes or best exchange rate bet) be used for company costs in that country.

For example, the Japanese auto companies typically have very long term relationships with their suppliers and bring them with them to a new country, setting up plants in support of the final assembly plants. They have also gotten wise to labor cost (only Honda & Subaru/Izusu set up independent plants in the North; Mitsubishi, Toyota, Mazda took some/full ownership of existing plants with domestic auto companies), as just about all new plants are in low union Southern states. And they learned to use our political districting laws to their advantage (rarely is more than one plant in a Congressional district -- even in the same state so that they get to add 2 Senators per plant; adds vested political interests with little lobbying money). This promotes something they need: political stability breeds sales. Also, they throw some of there money to US companies. They are not ignorant. Similar things are done in Europe (remember the Sterling car? Honda threw a bone to British Leyland and built them a car).

Boeing has learned to do the same thing in there commercial planes that has been ongoing in selling war products. Almost all of the military products sales have a 'technology transfer' agreement. Typically it is staged so that the first products are US made, then an increasing transition to domestic manufacturing, though occasionally it may be supporting education or a different industry (depends on the relative level of that countries technology). Boeing learned that if it subed out work to other countries that the (often) government owned/subsidized airline would be able to make it an easier purchase (buy domestic). This has worked for Airbus in Europe, and was attempted in the last effort to lease tankers to the US Air Force. I believe Northrup was to be the 'integrator' in Alabama. That just meant that the plane was built in Europe, then most of the specialized equipment installed here. Like pickups made overseas used to come over (Toyota's did), no beds, then installed once in country to lower the import tariffs.

But this has limitations. And China is the one exceeding these limitations. The high speed rail companies that are/have built systems in China are now seeing big competition from the Chinese. See, the Chinese watched how they built the trains (required ownership of the companies by Chinese, as well as employee theft), then built them for competition overseas. All because of the Yuan cash flow (greed). The same thing is happening now as companies run to China for the airliner being developed in China. GE, etc are tripping over themselves to build in China. Oh, sorry, give there technologies and processes to them. So that in no more than 10 years they will be competing against them. The State speaks, as it is estimated that close to 1/2 the Chinese economy is controlled by the PLA (Army) through part ownership in most large and many small companies.

That is where the real issues lay: Organized capitolism on a level that we just can't understand. And off topic, we will all face diplomatically/militarily in the next decade.


Tractor companies play the 'assembled' game by doing final assembly (which can't be very much) in Georgia (and maybe somewhere else, all I have seen that are primarily imported show GA as final assembly point).

 

[sparc]

I took an extra minute or two to look at Christmas cards and found that there are many still made here in the USA, and those were my choice. somehow a Christmas card in a communist country doesn't have the meaning it should.

 

[mjncad]

Not necessarily always a win-win. I can see instances where trade barriers are important. For example, back in the '80s, Brazil had extremely high import taxes to encourage the growth of their own industries instead of having zero industrial capability of their own.

Ken

What you describe is protectionism. When I say win-win, I mean that each party feels good about the deal.

From The Desk Of Donald Trump: China Is Laughing... - YouTube

As I understand it, the most sought after car brand to buy in China is Buick as that was the car brand of the last emperor.

The rapid Chinese industrial phenomenon is due in part to the fact they don't have to reinvent the wheel with industrial standards. All the basics were done in America and Europe. Then we stupidly give them the tooling and expertise. Add into the fact the Chinese are good at stealing and reverse engineering what wasn't given to them adds to the problem. Now factor in the artificially low currency rate, and The Donald is right...they are laughing at us.

The noise you hear coming from Mao's grave is him laughing as his country is beating the western world at our own game with our help.

 

[rd_macgregor]

What you describe is protectionism. When I say win-win, I mean that each party feels good about the deal.

I'll buy in to your definition of win-win, but it still only tells part of the story. Two participants in an international business deal may feel they are benefitting (otherwise they wouldn't do the deal!), but that doesn't mean there aren't losers as a result of the deal. If a North American manufacturer contracts a Chinese or Indonesian company to produce goods that were previously made in NA, then the manufacturer and the foreign company are pleased with the deal. However, the NA work force many not be so happy. In the big picture of things, the deal may have made production, and the world economy closer to optimum (ie more efficient), but that doesn't make the blow any easier to take for the workers who lose their jobs.
BOB

 

[mmurphy]

I was recently looking for a impact wrench. I paid extra money for a Ingersol Rand product cause it was made in USA. There is some impact wrenches out there that had a little more torque and of good quality made in China, but I prefer my good tools saying made in USA.

Sears does still have tools made in USA. I have seen some good quality China made wrenches there, but will not buy them.

We have Menards in our area. They have a lot of Made In The USA sales. I tend to buy things I probably do not need at them sales!!

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Here is a quote from the article:

"Buy American" is a dumb idea. It would not only not create prosperity, it would cost jobs and make us all poorer. On my Fox Business show last week, David R. Henderson, an economist at the Hoover Institution, explained why.
"Almost all economists say it's nonsense," he said. "And the reason is: We should buy things where they're cheapest. That frees up more of our resources to buy other things, and other Americans get jobs producing those things."

​

While I don't think protectionism is the answer, the very potential flaw with the argument put forward in the article above is this - other Americans get jobs producing those things.

What exactly are "those things?"

What skill level and resources are needed to produce "those things?"

If North American labor was not able to compete and produce "things where they are cheapest" what makes the author think they will be able to produce "those things" at the required price point?

Given the diversity of the labor market / education levels / skill levels, it strikes me as highly unlikely (even if we are able to identify "those things" and jobs are created to produce "those things") there will ever be a match between the displaced / unemployed workers and the workforce required for "those things"

Put another way, we in North America have to produce something of value that can be exported, so in the long run we can actually pay for all the goods that are imported.

So what are "those things?"

 

[Obed]

In order for "free trade" to work in America's interests, there must be an even playing field. Our politicians open up trade with China with full understanding that America's workforce cannot compete, largely because of government generated or supported restraints. American businesses must comply with unemployment taxes, medicare/medicaide, family medical leave act, expensive environmental regulations, labor unions, healthcare, and a host of other regulations that companies in 3rd World don't face.

How can an American businesses compete against a such uneven stakes? They can't so companies have sent its labor overseas in areas where the onerous restrictions do not exist.

 

[woodlandfarms]

A docu that is trying to get some traction.

Fools on the Hill Trailer - YouTube

 

[mjncad]

The cesspool of Washington D.C. (District of Criminals) needs to be drained and scoured clean.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[PAGUY]

What about the inequality of wages in America?

Should CEOs make more to run a corporation than the President of the United States makes for running the country?

Should sports players and entertainers make ridiculous salaries for doing something they love doing?

Why are union workers paid wages that are inflated adding to the cost of the product they produce?

How can we justify paying farmers for NOT planting crops when there are poor people having to rely on food banks to feed themselves and their families on the generocity of giving individuals?

 

[5030]

The cesspool of Washington D.C. (District of Criminals) needs to be drained and scoured clean.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Maybe it's time for you to step up to the plate...oh hallowed one.....

Talk is cheap after all.

 

[5030]

Glad to oblige Polynices....

So tell 'oh great one, when you heading over to DC with your plunger???

Better check and see that it's not a Chinese made plunger...........

 

[mjncad]

Glad to oblige Polynices....

So tell 'oh great one, when you heading over to DC with your plunger???

Better check and see that it's not a Chinese made plunger...........

Flipmeisters told me the plunger is on back order.