Buying American

[mkane09]

I fully support the "Buy American" platform! I also think our trade policies should mirror the countries we do business with. I recently bought a John Deere lawn tractor solely because it was made in the USA. I have stopped shopping at Walmart because 90% of their goods (BADS!) are made in China. Now, we can't directly change US trade policy, but we CAN vote with our dollars. Buy American made goods!

The fix for our economy is multifaceted. The EPA needs to have their budget cut in half, so they will focus on what is important, instead of putting their fingers in every pie. The government needs to put a windfall profits tax of about 75% on Big Oil, and discount the federal gasoline tax penny for penny. Trade policies should mirror our trade partners/competitors. Labor unions should wake up and realize the labor market is global, not just US. The government should be more proactive in supporting manufacturing in this country, instead of viewing them as some type of belching, polluting, ugly, red-headed step-child. And, lastly and most importantly, Americans need to support America(ns)! Buy locally, support your neighbors, even if it costs you more than the big box discounters. The economy is emotional and has inertia. Let's get it turned inward. Here's my platform for the 2012 election: America First!!!

Good evening, fellow Americans......

mkane09

P.S. Let's stop giving financial aid to ANY foreign country. $20 billion to Pakistan? Have we lost our minds???

 

[magicheater]

I was pleasantly surprised the other day...

I bought a really high end fine wood working square for about $35. It is made in Japan and is forged and has a tolerance of being within square by 0.1mm per 100mm. Made of forged stainless.

So I go to my usual haunt which sells a lot of imported stuff. I bring the new square with me and check it against a framing square... actually two different models. They are bang on!
And both are made in the USA and retail just above and just below the $10 mark up here.

So I guess you have to shop around and look at your country of manufacturing... ya never know!

It is nice to know that plain steel framing squares are within that 1% accuracy. The Stainless forged version is high end, you are lucky to have it. Worth the extra $25, probably. What are the dimensions of your high end square?

 

[LazySusanFarms]

May not like it but the best way to bring jobs back to America is to increase wages over there. Our wages, and our standard of living, will fall until there is equilibrium world-wide long term. Their wages do not need to be as high as ours but they do need to rise so that they price themselves out of the markets. Already starting to happen in mainland China. The problem is that it will take too long to help reduce unemployment. Expect unemployment to remain elevated until 2017.

 

[Diamondpilot]

While I like to buy local and American there is just some things that it does not make sense to do so for. As far a vehicles go I gave up on that. My Nissan and BMW as is my F-350 are all made in America by US workers. You can argue where the profits go but jobs are jobs. My Nissan is as much American made when you look at where the parts origins are as my Ford.

I would much rather give my money to companies that are good community members and did not take bail outs and union ran. They have allowed it to get too much political and are as much to blame for the fall of American manufacturing as are the foreign companies, tariffs, ect, ect, ect.

Chris

 

[gettincold]

Very interesting debate with many very valid points. While not an economist, I think the currency issue also has some relevance in the discussion. The pegged Chinese currency versus the floating currencies of most other leading econimic countries is somewhat unbalanced and certainly contributes to an unlevel playing field.

 

[mjncad]

I did hear a prediction recently that within 25 years the U.S. will be producing over 50% of it's oil and the rest would come from Mexico and Canada, none from OPEC Hope it's true.

Ken

Not unless Captain Zero (Oscama) and the tree huggers have their way. Oscama says he'll veto any legislation allowing the Canada-USA pipeline to be built. What a POS that Oscama and his Demorrhoid buddies are.

The whole scenario would change in a matter of weeks if the legislators in this country would adopt a policy of protectionism and institute tarrifs on imported goods.

How about giving us example of modern trade wars that actually worked oh wise one. I agree China doesn't play fair with its trade and currency policies; but in this global economy we need leaders who think outside the box to solve the problem.

The government needs to put a windfall profits tax of about 75% on Big Oil, and discount the federal gasoline tax penny for penny.
...
Labor unions should wake up and realize the labor market is global, not just US. The government should be more proactive in supporting manufacturing in this country, instead of viewing them as some type of belching, polluting, ugly, red-headed step-child.
...
mkane09

P.S. Let's stop giving financial aid to ANY foreign country. $20 billion to Pakistan? Have we lost our minds???

Even if the Gummint were to discount the federal gas tax, the oil companies will just tack on the cost of the tax to the price of a gallon of fuel, and we're right back to where we started...the consumer gets screwed in the end.

Companies factor in taxation as a cost of doing business, and price their good and services accordingly. What I'd like to see is Gummints consider the Wal-Mart business model of high volume and low prices to generate adequate tax revenue. If individuals and companies had more money in their pockets, they will spend it, and the tax revenue will follow suit.

As for labor unions...they have outlived their usefulness in their current form.

I agree with cutting off foreign aid; but the only reason we give the Pakis money is to keep them somewhat tolerant of the USA because they have a few nukes. Foreign aid is nothing more than a huge bribe anymore.

The pegged Chinese currency versus the floating currencies of most other leading econimic countries is somewhat unbalanced and certainly contributes to an unlevel playing field.

Yep, just remember...Free trade is not the same thing as fair trade.

 

[Ken45101]

Sorry to tell you but I don't think the Deere lawn tractors are made in the U.S. Even the bigger utility tractors are from overseas. AFAIK only the big iron is made in the U.S.

As for "taxing the windfall profits of the oil industry", that's pure lying hype. Yes, Exxon makes a lot of profit because they invest one heck of a lot of money. One exploratory well they drilled went down 27,973 feet and turned up dry. They drill sometimes as slowly as 3-5 feet per hour and average 50 feet per hour....and those rigs go for more than a quarter million dollars a day! 50 feet per hour, 27,897 feet deep, that's over 27 days at a over a quarter million dollars a day....for a dry hole.

The U.S. government makes ten times as much "profit" per gallon of gas than the oil companies make. What does the U.S. government contribute to finding and providing oil and gas? NOTHING. You want to attack "excess profits"? Work on the U.S. government, that's the real excess, not the oil companies who only make a couple of cents per gallon of profit.

Ken

 

[MotorSeven]

You do understand that buying something because of where it's built also doesn't translate to what's best for the consumer.

Very true and I think we loose sight of the big picture. Sometimes buying American only benefits a few(those involved in manufacturing the item), while buying the same thing abroad at 50%-100% less than the American price benefits way more American consumers.

Don't get me wrong, I buy American when I can and when I can afford it. Sometimes American products are the same price as imports and that is a no brainer. But, I refuse to buy something of similar quality made here if the price is double or triple more because I simply cannot afford it.

Also, the playing field is getting muddy. Many overseas company's have moved back here and are producing products using American labor and a mixture of American components. Products might still be shunned by "us" because initially they were not made here, but now are.

It's a confusing double edged sword and this crap economy is making matters worse.

 

[Lloyd_E]

It is nice to know that plain steel framing squares are within that 1% accuracy. The Stainless forged version is high end, you are lucky to have it. Worth the extra $25, probably. What are the dimensions of your high end square?

MH,

The manufacturer is Empire, model 1110 - 16"x24" Made in the USA $9.95 Canadian. Amazon.com has them for $4.95. The other model is e1190 16"x24" amazon.com has them for $17.49.

Empire Level - True Blue Levels, Construction Levels, Box Levels, Masonry Levels, I-Beam Levels, Torpedo Levels, Utility Levels, Squares, Tape Measures, Precision Tools

 

[rd_macgregor]

Manufacturers optimize their production sequence in the same way a feedlot optimizes its ration. They consider the end market and all the inputs that go into the product, then figure the least-cost way to put together the product. Shipping stuff all over the world SEEMS really inefficient, but ocean shipping is by far the cheapest transportation on the planet, per ton-mile, so sending parts from one country into another for assembly, then on to a third (or fourth!) for sale can still often undercut the price of similar goods produced in that final country.
I also want to take issue with a blanket claim(or implication, at least) that all Chinese stuff is junk. There are Chinese manufacturers of hardware, electronics, plastics which can produce top-quality products. Because the flood of Chinese products is fairly recent, we don't really have a brand history to go by for judging quality, so its really hard to tell the good stuff from the junk.
Conscientious NA importers will insist on quality control in the Chinese factories; unfortunately, some mass marketers care ONLY about price on the shelf, not about quality, so the Chinese producer can cut corners...which hurts the reputation of ALL Chinese products (kind of like blaming all American manufacturers if your US-made truck has issues).
I have a Chinese-made wood lathe that is really nice. It isn't as good as the Powermatic (also Chinese made) and certainly doesn't rate with the US-made Robust or Canadian-made Oneway lathes...but it is really solid and well-built and cost a fraction of what those others cost. Sometimes I am willing to knowingly accept a quality, function or appearance compromise in order to save a bunch.
BOB

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree. To say Chinese stuff is junk is just plain ignorant. They can make and have made stuff just as good as we have. Take WWII for example. Japan had some pretty good airplanes and ships to battle us with and for a while were kicking our butts in the air to air stuff using the Mitsubishi Zero against our best fighters. It was not until the North American P-51 Mustang that we had something to one up them. Which brings up another subject. Boeing and other aircraft manufactures are having sub components such as tail sections, engines, and wings made over seas in countries such as China.

They can make stuff just as good as anyone else if the quality control is in place and expectations are set forth, not just the cheapest price.

Chris

 

[sparc]

I agree. To say Chinese stuff is junk is just plain ignorant. They can make and have made stuff just as good as we have. Take WWII for example. They had some pretty good airplanes and ships to battle us with and for a while were kicking our butts in the air to air stuff using the Mitsubishi Zero against our best fighters. It was not until the North American P-51 Mustang that we had something to one up them. Which brings up another subject. Boeing and other aircraft manufactures are having sub components such as tail sections, engines, and wings made over seas in countries such as China.

They can make stuff just as good as anyone else if the quality control is in place and expectations are set forth, not just the cheapest price.

Chris

Did you mean the Japanese?

As far as only Carpenter making stainless steel in this country; there are others who make various types of stainless, Allegheny-Ludlum being one of them. Their history in this country dates back to the mid 1800s. They supplied the stainless steel used on the Chrysler Building in NYC for example.

 

[Renze]

The problem is not the corporations, they are responding to consumer demand. Any company that ignores the reality of consumer demand will price themselves out of the market and the business will fail, as have many good American companies.

Having read this US based website with European eyes since 2003, i must say i havent read wise talk like this before, on this site... Perhaps the bank crisis promoted this view, but its spot on.

the free market economy is something like water, it seeks the path of least resistance. Any governmental interference disturbs it, which will lead to other unwanted effects, like the export of labour to countries which have very low standards with regards to environment, human rights, animal welfare, etcetera.


To get back to the original subject, when Americans would only buy American, the price of consumer goods would triple or quadruple, so our life standards would be a lot lower, in other words, we couldnt afford a lot of the luxury we have now, anymore.

Churchill has said "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." and also: "…the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. "

If you change the word "democracy" for "free market economy" and the word "voter" for "consumer" both statements bear the same truth.

From thereoff, my reply to "buying american" would be: " the best argument against a free market economy is a five minute conversation with the average consumer."


After having said/quoted this, any more words i could say, would have been spilled.

 

[jonyyuma]

Jake, For me Buying American does include buy Canadian.. After all you are our brothers.Some of our 'american' brands are built there.I just don't speak french and I am sure many of you don't either? I have only been to Victoria, a beautiful city..>But I relish the day I can ride the Red Leaf express and visit with the locals?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Did you mean the Japanese?

As far as only Carpenter making stainless steel in this country; there are others who make various types of stainless, Allegheny-Ludlum being one of them. Their history in this country dates back to the mid 1800s. They supplied the stainless steel used on the Chrysler Building in NYC for example.

Yes I did when talking about the Zero. Sorry about that. But the fact still remains many many components of the modern day airliners are made in China and other countries.

Chris

 

[the6shooter]

Thank you for the link.



When are you going to sell your Japanese made Kubota's and buy an American brand of tractor?

I didn't buy a kubota, I bought Massey ferguson:laughing:

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Interesting discussion. Here are a couple of paragraphs from an article by Brian Lee Crowley that may provide a perspective that some of us may not yet have considered:

Unfortunately when many people think about trade, they think of it in old-fashioned terms. Each country has its own self-contained economy. And in each economy, that country's workers make goods and services. Those finished products are then sold to other countries, which make different goods and services in their own little self-contained economy. Japan makes cars. France makes wine. They trade wine for cars.

That is emphatically not what happens for the most part in North America. What we have is not three countries and three economies trading finished products with each other. We have a single economy shared by two countries, Canada and the United States (and increasingly a third, Mexico). We have a single economy awkwardly cross-cut by inefficient and obstructive national borders.


The complete article may be found at:
It isn't about trade

 

[mjncad]

As for "taxing the windfall profits of the oil industry", that's pure lying hype. Yes, Exxon makes a lot of profit because they invest one heck of a lot of money. One exploratory well they drilled went down 27,973 feet and turned up dry. They drill sometimes as slowly as 3-5 feet per hour and average 50 feet per hour....and those rigs go for more than a quarter million dollars a day! 50 feet per hour, 27,897 feet deep, that's over 27 days at a over a quarter million dollars a day....for a dry hole.

The U.S. government makes ten times as much "profit" per gallon of gas than the oil companies make. What does the U.S. government contribute to finding and providing oil and gas? NOTHING. You want to attack "excess profits"? Work on the U.S. government, that's the real excess, not the oil companies who only make a couple of cents per gallon of profit.

Ken

Exactly!

To get back to the original subject, when Americans would only buy American, the price of consumer goods would triple or quadruple, so our life standards would be a lot lower, in other words, we couldnt afford a lot of the luxury we have now, anymore.

Churchill has said "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." and also: "?he best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter. "

If you change the word "democracy" for "free market economy" and the word "voter" for "consumer" both statements bear the same truth.

From thereoff, my reply to "buying american" would be: " the best argument against a free market economy is a five minute conversation with the average consumer."

Well put, and if we want to be economical with words, we could use "Capitalism" instead of "Free Market Economy."

The Occupy (fill in the blank) protesters are a prime example of what Renze is saying about the average voter/consumer. They piss and moan about Capitalism being bad and all corporations are evil; yet if it wasn't for Capitalism and corporations, they wouldn't have iPhones, Facebook, Twitter, modern tents, etc to organize and occupy the cities of their choice. They also fail to remember that Socialism under the guise of Communism was a miserable failure.

Interesting discussion. Here are a couple of paragraphs from an article by Brian Lee Crowley that may provide a perspective that some of us may not yet have considered:

Unfortunately when many people think about trade, they think of it in old-fashioned terms. Each country has its own self-contained economy. And in each economy, that country's workers make goods and services. Those finished products are then sold to other countries, which make different goods and services in their own little self-contained economy. Japan makes cars. France makes wine. They trade wine for cars.

That is emphatically not what happens for the most part in North America. What we have is not three countries and three economies trading finished products with each other. We have a single economy shared by two countries, Canada and the United States (and increasingly a third, Mexico). We have a single economy awkwardly cross-cut by inefficient and obstructive national borders.


The complete article may be found at:
It isn't about trade

Well put CinderSchnauzer. This is why trade wars don't work in the modern age as they did when economies were isolated entities. The trick is now to put the word "fair" into "free trade."

 

[the6shooter]

That IS where the problem lies, fair trade not free trade.