Buying Advice Deciding what to buy for my 1ST tractor.

[WxMan85]

You’re not describing CUT work. Go with a full size backhoe or a CTL. A CTL and small excavator would be ideal, but above budget.

You can sell them without much depreciation, though.

when you’re done, buy a Kioti DK or CK.

Yeah those 2 would work well together, but like you said budget. I am glad that equipment does not depreciate much, it helps when you are done and want to sell. I am thinking of a 40 to 50 hp kioti after its all said and done. What are your thoughts on that for maintenance? In a perfect world I would go smaller on the CUT if I can swing keeping the 580SL.......

 

[finn1]

Yeah those 2 would work well together, but like you said budget. I am glad that equipment does not depreciate much, it helps when you are done and want to sell. I am thinking of a 40 to 50 hp kioti after its all said and done. What are your thoughts on that for maintenance? In a perfect world I would go smaller on the CUT if I can swing keeping the 580SL.......

My tractor is a Ck4010. I bought it with a front blower, and a box blade, and sold my skid steer. I was doing work on the lakefront at the time, and it was too wet for the skid steer to be effective.

The tractor didn’t work out for that, as it was too wet for the tractor too, plus the cg of the tractor didn’t play well with hills.

I ended up buying a CTL, and, a little later, a mini excavator. So now I’m up to three machines. I don’t really need three, but each has its nitche, and I’m retired, so my days of putting kids through college are behind me.

The tractor excels at clearing snow with the front blower, is pretty useful with a landscap rake for cleaning up branches and undergrowth. The box blade is ok, but the CTL is far superior for any sort of dirt work, off camber work, wet soil work, fork work, and bucket work, including erosion repair to the driveway, loading trucks, and general grading.

Also, attachments like rotary cutters are more readily available and cheaper, although a front mounted cutter on the CTL would be nice.

My mini ex is wonderful, although I would go up one size to expedite some of the stump work I get involved in. All my equipment is on the smaller side, a somewhat conscious decision based on wanting to store them indoors for the long and harsh winters.

I have another two projects lined up for the mini ex and CTL this summer. The original intent was to buy them, do the first project, then sell them. That didn’t happen, and likely never will, as long as I can climb up on them.

 

[WxMan85]

My tractor is a Ck4010. I bought it with a front blower, and a box blade, and sold my skid steer. I was doing work on the lakefront at the time, and it was too wet for the skid steer to be effective.

The tractor didn’t work out for that, as it was too wet for the tractor too, plus the cg of the tractor didn’t play well with hills.

I ended up buying a CTL, and, a little later, a mini excavator. So now I’m up to three machines. I don’t really need three, but each has its nitche, and I’m retired, so my days of putting kids through college are behind me.

The tractor excels at clearing snow with the front blower, is pretty useful with a landscap rake for cleaning up branches and undergrowth. The box blade is ok, but the CTL is far superior for any sort of dirt work, off camber work, wet soil work, fork work, and bucket work, including erosion repair to the driveway, loading trucks, and general grading.

Also, attachments like rotary cutters are more readily available and cheaper, although a front mounted cutter on the CTL would be nice.

My mini ex is wonderful, although I would go up one size to expedite some of the stump work I get involved in. All my equipment is on the smaller side, a somewhat conscious decision based on wanting to store them indoors for the long and harsh winters.

I have another two projects lined up for the mini ex and CTL this summer. The original intent was to buy them, do the first project, then sell them. That didn’t happen, and likely never will, as long as I can climb up on them.

That is awesome to have 3 machines with a niche!! What size CTL did you end up with. I would love to have a CAT 299 with a forest mulcher, and a couple of attachments. I used a mini ex at my old job as an electrician. they were great for getting into folks backyard and not tearing it all to hell if you took it easy. I grew up around a family friends CAT 246B it had a trencher, 5 in 1, grapple, and backhoe attachments. It was a blast to go run around in and work, we eventually put tracks on it as it loved to sink. His nickname for it was "land anchor"!

 

[WxMan85]

As an update on the 580 SL, he is really wanting to sell it, but his wife is hesitant to let a machine like that leave their 100+ acres. I told him I am 6 miles away and can bring it over anytime he needs me to and I am available. So hopefully that will settle it and I can be a proud owner of a very decent machine!! It will come with the 12" and 24" buckets, and 2 new front tires, so I will only have to replace the backs when its absolutely necessary. Can you tube that large of a tire, or is it better to put on brand new tires?

 

[DaBear3428]

The first words out of my mouth when I saw your photos was "this has to be Texas" that is some serious soil and rock to move!! I was looking at Mahindra, and my only concern on the BH is its not a sub frame style implement, (at least not what I have seen for sale online and around here) it is a 4 pin hooked up to the back of the tractor. I just feel that it would break the tractor in half without that sub frame support. That said, I do like seeing that the loader can DIG that well, do you have a cut bar with rock teeth on the front edge of the blade? How large of an area is that, and how long did it take to achieve that? Thank you for your response!

i do not have a backhoe nor do i intend to get one so I will let someone else answer backhoe questions (Arrow) may have some insight. I cannot see the 5145 backhoe with out a subframe but I do not know. No tooth bar on mine and the pond is about 12 feet deep at this point, i got rained out and went to other project until it dries out a little. the time is dependent on your layout, as most of the time spent is toting the spoils out of the hole and to the stack. I would think that this is as fast as a backhoe if you include the time to stack the spoils. a med excavator would be faster but not a backhoe (i would think), you do have to plan better with a FEL for digging.
In my soil digging is a non-issue, point the bucket at the ground and push, feathering the bucket curl up as the tractor starts spinning and by the time it is curled up you have a full bucket and it happens faster than i can type the description. this is in undisturbed hard packed caleche with limestone/clay mixed in. I have heard a lot about CUT FELs will not dig efficiently but that does not apply to this machine in my soils, i'm having more problems figuring out where to stack than digging. about the only thing i could use a backhoe for is stumps, but the FEL does that, it just takes more time.

 

[Sgt Slag]

Remember to look at the exhaust system on the engine: avoid regenerating types! Mahindra's do not regenerate.

Another thing to consider, is the warranty period offered: Mahindra's have a 7-year power train warranty, transferable without paperwork. The Mahindra's are less expensive, so you get more tractor for your money. Mahindra also sells more tractors, worldwide, than any other maker -- not just a marketing statement, their sales are higher than all others, which speaks volumes, to me, at least. I have owned my Mahindra for 2 years, bought it used with 104 hours. I've worked it pretty hard. Love it! Still have another 3 years on the power train warranty!

Check to see if you have good, local tractor mechanics, closer to home. Routine maintenance does not need to be done by a dealer! I do not take my car to a dealer, unless required... Parts can be had by mail order, typically, so you can get the maintenance done by a non-dealer mechanic, for less money. I did not know, nor did the dealer who sold me my tractor, if the PO had done the 100 hour service. I ordered filters, bought oil, and had my local tractor mechanic (a nearby neighbor, actually, who owns a professional shop) do the transmission oil change, as well as replace a transmission cooling fan I trashed doing some rough work on stumps of Red Sumac. The fan was exposed, by design, on the belly PTO shaft; I tried, unsuccessfully, to uproot the cut-off trunks, with the FEL, then I backed over 3-foot trunks, which popped up into the spinning plastic fan blades -- operator abuse; they also punctured the lower radiator hose, on the engine. I did not know about the fan blades. Now, I am far more careful to avoid backing over anything that might pop up.

Pretty much any brand of tractor will outlive you. Get the most machine, that you can afford. Avoid regenerating diesel engines. Buy used, if you can find what you like, in good condition. My Dad owned a much used 1948 JD B. He sold it to my cousin and her husband, who now use it on their 100 acre farm. Take care of whatever you buy, and it will serve your very well.

If you need more HP than your tractor has for pulling stumps out of the ground, study up on snatch-blocks. Cheers!

 

[sd455dan]

As an update on the 580 SL, he is really wanting to sell it, but his wife is hesitant to let a machine like that leave their 100+ acres. I told him I am 6 miles away and can bring it over anytime he needs me to and I am available. So hopefully that will settle it and I can be a proud owner of a very decent machine!! It will come with the 12" and 24" buckets, and 2 new front tires, so I will only have to replace the backs when its absolutely necessary. Can you tube that large of a tire, or is it better to put on brand new tires?

Hope you do get The Case 580. 2 sizes of buckets will be nice as well.


Old backhoe tires can look really bad and still work for years more. If the problem is no lugs left and needing traction chains might do the trick, but sure are pricey lately.

 

[Bentrim]

With the type and amount of work you want to do I would recommend the case or other used TLB to get the work done. Once it is finished then sell it, or if cheap enough keep it for the heavy work and purchase a "maintenance" tractor and implements as needed.

Yes a smaller unit may be able to get the work done, but at what cost? Time and wear and tear on a smaller unit will definitely add up. A smaller unit won't be able to get those trusses that high, of course most truss companies have trucks with cranes on them (at least around here).

Our neighbor had a water leak and asked my father to come over with a JD 400 with a loader and hoe. He worked for a few hours and barely scratched the surface. I was working for a MH park at the time and had access to a 580 case. It took longer to come and go than to find the water line! It was only about a 2 mile distance.

A big horse can do more work faster than a small horse, but it probably will have a bigger appetite, and more road apples.

 

[WxMan85]

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!! I now have a 580L in my drive!! Its a beast for sure. I am going through it now to get some gauges working and cleaning up the engine bay, you know all the ins and outs of something that has just set and weathered over the years.

So I did have to change out the alternator, as we learned a costly lesson. Apparently you have to remove not only the battery (which we did) but you also have to remove the wires from the alternator and in some cases Case wants you to remove the instrument panel wiring as well when welding on the machine. I can only assume that the alternator was damaged when we welded a few spots on the loader bucket. Found out the alternator was bad when the work lights started to get very very dim, and finally the forward/reverse switch on steering column would not engage the selected direction when engaged.

Bought new battery and alternator installed and fired it all up, went to check alternator and boom not putting out 14 volts, was putting out 12.... so WTH! started a long quest of chasing wires and checking grounds, from front to back, found nothing! So dove into forums and found out about how the light bulbs behind the instrument panel are tied into the system so that if a bulb goes out, the alternator will not get excited and start charging. Dumb design, but I guess its to MAKE you fix a burned out bulb. Replace bulb with new, and boom alternator is charging at 14 volts.

Now as a new and completely off the wall problem, the rear work lights which worked before the alternator and battery being changed out(as in the night that the battery dropped to 7 volts and all lights dimmed and found a bad alternator), now do not come on...... have checked all wires and grounds from battery to light switch on instrument panel, to the lights themselves. Have tested the relays and fuses (actually changed every fuse in the box, as they were semi corroded, so cleaned it up and used dielectric grease to protect). From battery to fuse to relay have 12 volts. From relay to switch at panel I have 12 volts. Here is where I get completely lost, if I turn the light switch on, I lose all voltage (goes from 12 volts to O volts on meter) lights do not work. Turn switch off, voltage comes back and fuse is fine. So I took the switch for the front lights and put it where the rear light switch was, then tried, same thing happens, put original rear switch where the front switch was and front lights operate normal. If I put switches back to original way (it does not matter what place the 2 switches are as they are working and the same) and I jump from the 12 volts of the working front lights, the rear lights come on, if I activate the rear light switch with the jumped power the lights go on and off as normal...... I dont want to jump this way permanently as there is obviously and issue and I would like to fix it.

Are there any ideas as to why the front and rear lights worked before the alternator/battery change out to now only front lights work and rears only work in a jumped scenario??? There seems to be no faults in the wire as the rear lights work when I jump the front power to the rear, and if I set it back to original setup the system works until I go to energize the switch (voltage disappears), and no fuses blow....... (on a side not I grabbed another relay that was an exact match and installed it and problem stayed the same.....

New and eager toy owner confused in OK!!!!!

 

[Bentrim]

Congratulations on your new toy!!!

As you explained of the rear lights. Check the wire that provides power to the switch. A poor connection may read 12 volts but when a load is applied will drop to zero if there is a poor or bad connection in that wire. You have proved this by changing the switches and jumping the "good" wire to the rear lights.

You may want to purchase an operators and service manual for the TLB. They answer a lot of questions and help you keep the ole girl living longer.

 

[WxMan85]

Congratulations on your new toy!!!

As you explained of the rear lights. Check the wire that provides power to the switch. A poor connection may read 12 volts but when a load is applied will drop to zero if there is a poor or bad connection in that wire. You have proved this by changing the switches and jumping the "good" wire to the rear lights.

You may want to purchase an operators and service manual for the TLB. They answer a lot of questions and help you keep the ole girl living longer.

I will look at both the wire feeding power to the relay, and the power wire to the switch. Both show continuity, and low resistance, but it is something to go on for sure, thanks!! I did find a someone who has the big blown up electrical schematics for the 580L, so I will be ordering those momentarily!!

Will keep you all posted, I also thought about starting a thread on this issue on the electrical issue board if there is one, and see what others have had as issues and fixes...... God bless all!!

 

[sd455dan]

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!! I now have a 580L in my drive!! Its a beast for sure. I am going through it now to get some gauges working and cleaning up the engine bay, you know all the ins and outs of something that has just set and weathered over the years.

So I did have to change out the alternator, as we learned a costly lesson. Apparently you have to remove not only the battery (which we did) but you also have to remove the wires from the alternator and in some cases Case wants you to remove the instrument panel wiring as well when welding on the machine. I can only assume that the alternator was damaged when we welded a few spots on the loader bucket. Found out the alternator was bad when the work lights started to get very very dim, and finally the forward/reverse switch on steering column would not engage the selected direction when engaged.

Bought new battery and alternator installed and fired it all up, went to check alternator and boom not putting out 14 volts, was putting out 12.... so WTH! started a long quest of chasing wires and checking grounds, from front to back, found nothing! So dove into forums and found out about how the light bulbs behind the instrument panel are tied into the system so that if a bulb goes out, the alternator will not get excited and start charging. Dumb design, but I guess its to MAKE you fix a burned out bulb. Replace bulb with new, and boom alternator is charging at 14 volts.

Now as a new and completely off the wall problem, the rear work lights which worked before the alternator and battery being changed out(as in the night that the battery dropped to 7 volts and all lights dimmed and found a bad alternator), now do not come on...... have checked all wires and grounds from battery to light switch on instrument panel, to the lights themselves. Have tested the relays and fuses (actually changed every fuse in the box, as they were semi corroded, so cleaned it up and used dielectric grease to protect). From battery to fuse to relay have 12 volts. From relay to switch at panel I have 12 volts. Here is where I get completely lost, if I turn the light switch on, I lose all voltage (goes from 12 volts to O volts on meter) lights do not work. Turn switch off, voltage comes back and fuse is fine. So I took the switch for the front lights and put it where the rear light switch was, then tried, same thing happens, put original rear switch where the front switch was and front lights operate normal. If I put switches back to original way (it does not matter what place the 2 switches are as they are working and the same) and I jump from the 12 volts of the working front lights, the rear lights come on, if I activate the rear light switch with the jumped power the lights go on and off as normal...... I dont want to jump this way permanently as there is obviously and issue and I would like to fix it.

Are there any ideas as to why the front and rear lights worked before the alternator/battery change out to now only front lights work and rears only work in a jumped scenario??? There seems to be no faults in the wire as the rear lights work when I jump the front power to the rear, and if I set it back to original setup the system works until I go to energize the switch (voltage disappears), and no fuses blow....... (on a side not I grabbed another relay that was an exact match and installed it and problem stayed the same.....

New and eager toy owner confused in OK!!!!!

Awesome,
Congrats on the New to you 580 L

Hard to beat a Full sized TLB for the "buy" the pound per dollar.
Still "Digging" My Ford 550 TLB as well.

 

[WxMan85]

Awesome,
Congrats on the New to you 580 L

Hard to beat a Full sized TLB for the "buy" the pound per dollar.
Still "Digging" My Ford 550 TLB as well.

Thanks and true story!!

 

[WxMan85]

So rear lights work!! I followed Bentrim's advice and followed the voltage dropping out back through the fuse box and relays. It was not a wire but Power relay 1!! I had checked the rear light relay, but never thought that one of the 3 power relays would be involved in that circuit as well!! I pulled all relays and sanded terminals, and put dielectric grease on them and cleaned relay port connections then reinstalled the relays, and wouldn't you know it, rear lights came right on!! So thanks for pointing me down a path that led to another path and fixed the coincidental light problem after changing alternator and battery!!


So another adventure is getting fuel gauge to read correctly, and water and oil gauges checked out. They do move when you turn key, and do raise a little after getting to running temp, but reading other forums and articles online, it may be that they are moving the correct amount and don't go as far as normal vehicle gauges move. They get to the first green lines and stay right there. The oil as I have come to hopefully understand correctly is not going to move much unless I stall the transmission or get the loader bound up and heat the oil.....??


The tachometer apparently runs off of the alternator leads, so now it is reading perfect!! So just replacing all of the old rusted bolts, washers, and nuts that I have come across digging into this beast and replacing them with new one. After this I will possibly have to redo some of the seals on the cylinders, but we shall see after I get some use on them and let them reseal and seat.

I hope after ALL this, I can do some heavy work with this very capable machine!!

 

[WxMan85]

So fixed some more on the 580 and now (and was probably on before I bought it) the hand brake light is on even thou the hand brake is in the off position, and the backhoe does not act like the brakes are on, I can tell when the hand brake is on an off as I have picked the rear end up off the ground and braked the wheels in the air in a start/stop fashion. So I am assuming its a faulty wire, and or switch somewhere. Was wondering if anyone has had to mess with that light. On a side not, I found where the warning alarm horn has a broken wire and need to order a new one. Could that be what is causing the hand break light to stay on maybe? I will look under the machine this weekend and look at all the wires and connections, since corrosion has seem to be the name of the game on this beast. Also will see if I can tell what kind of rear end is in this thing, as I am finding out that would be a very expensive rear end to work on!!!!

 

[Torvy]

My lack of enjoyment from 'fixing' things is reason number 1 I chose to buy new.

Sounds like you enjoy that sort of thing. Congrats!

 

[WxMan85]

My lack of enjoyment from 'fixing' things is reason number 1 I chose to buy new.

Sounds like you enjoy that sort of thing. Congrats!

Actually I really do, even when gunk is falling in my eyes and knuckles are busted, at the end of the day I love it!! It also lets me get things that I normally would never be able to afford...... Believe me if I could buy new, I would. It definitely has its perks, plus you know exactly what has happened to the machine. I am fortunate enough to know this machines life for about 2800 of its 3100 hours life.

 

[Carl_NH]

WxMan 85 sounds like you've made great progress with older iron so far - nice work!

How about some pictures of your new to you 580L?

 

[WxMan85]

WxMan 85 sounds like you've made great progress with older iron so far - nice work!

How about some pictures of your new to you 580L?

Luckily I have, and here you go! These are pics from the day I went over to pay for her. Sorry for the delayed response, we were pretty sick, and just getting around to feeling human.

 

[WxMan85]

I have done almost a total wire connection assessment and clean up adding dielectric grease to almost every connection. (Atleast the ones I've touched or removed) I'm still trouble shooting the brake engaged light, but feel I have narrowed that gremlin down to the switch at the rear end..... time will tell. Here is some pics during my clean up / troubleshooting days in the beginning. Sanded and clean every connection on the instrument panel and in the fuse/relay boxes. You could not read the guages at all before I buffed it with headlight repair buffing kit. Yesterday I received my original factory service manual and searchable usb device in the mail! So I have that on my side now for any issues on the 580L!!