Best Way To Remove This Tree

[DAP]

Thanks Eddie ...

Obed .. for the record, it wasn't where the tree fell, but rather, WHEN the tree fell.

As you described it, the tree fell unexpectedly ... "bit it was too late" to quote you directly.

Certainly WHERE a tree falls is tantamount. WHEN it falls there is EQUALLY TANTAMOUNT.

We've deduced all this by discussing HOW it falls. Bottom Line .. Obed 1 Tree 0 .. jez like to see you and Eddie keep the score so lopsided.

This horse is now officially kicked.

 

[Obed]

Congrats Obed!!

Thanks Eddie. I was pretty happy for my first try. I've spent the last 2 days thinking, "Wow, that was cool!" Yes it was a small tree - but it was still really, really fun to drop that tree.

Where is the backhoe located when you dig the "V" shaped trenches? I'm having a hard time picturing that. When I start out digging on the side where I want the tree to drop, where is the machine at this point?

When you dig under the root ball, where is the backhoe located? Are you digging from the side of the tree (perpendicular to the direction of the fall) or in front or behind where the tree will fall? Or it doesn't really matter?

Yes, I was a little surprised at the initial resistance that the tree gave me when I started pushing on it. And yes I'm a little nervous about having the tree fall on me. For this small tree I wasn't very concerned but I do have concern about bigger trees.

Obed

 

[Obed]

obed, one other word of caution. Be extremely careful when pushing on any trees with your hoe or FEL any dead limbs can break off and fall on you or your tractor and with no FOPS can result in serious injury or death.

dirtworksequip,
Yes, I'm glad you suggested to look overhead for dead limbs. That's something that would not be obvious for me to look for without the forewarning. Great comment.
Obed

 

[Obed]

Jason,
22" is a pretty big tree. Fortunately, I don't have a need to take down any trees that large with my small tractor. It's good to know that our size tractors can safely take down a tree that large under control.
Obed

 

[Obed]

Whenever you get around to doing the tree from the original post... I'd love to see the pics of it also.

DmansPadge,
I'll post pictures when I drop the tree that is the topic of this thread. Sharing the work on this site with TBNers adds a lot to the fun.

I have another tree on the road I want to use to get more practice first though. I'll post pictures of it too.
Obed

 

[john_bud]

Eddie,

After the hoe is back together (Won't be till spring!), I think I'll give the "Eddie Walker" Official tree removal process a go.

One question, is the final push done with the tractor in a line directly away from the direction of the fall? That is a straight push with the boom/stick/bucket and no swing, right?

jb

 

[CurlyDave]

Just as a comment, Eddie's method is a slight variation on the technique described on pages 203-5 of Operating Techniques for the Tractor-Loader-Backhoe by Gary Ober, 2000 edition. I seriously doubt that any unsafe practice would be recommended in this book, which is used for training by the International Union of Operating Engineers.

The only difference is that Ober illustrates cutting roots on the side toward the backhoe before pushing. Clearly Eddie's technique allows for taking out larger trees.

As an aside, I highly recommend this book. It is clear, easy to understand, and well illustrated with both pictures and line drawings. I got my copy from Builder's Book, Inc. Bookstore for $34.20 plus $8 shipping. Amazon had used copies for about twice the price.

I can't wait until the ground dries out enough to try this on a couple of trees that "have to go" on my land.

P.S. I am not meaning to say that Eddie didn't develop this technique on his own, or that he deserves less credit for bringing it to our attention. Only that it is recognized as a "standard" BH operation, and has been safety checked by professional operators.

 

[BTDT]

Maybe I missed it, but time wise, how long do you think it took you from start to finish? Nice job, by the way.

 

[EddieWalker]

Where is the backhoe located when you dig the "V" shaped trenches? I'm having a hard time picturing that. When I start out digging on the side where I want the tree to drop, where is the machine at this point?

When you dig under the root ball, where is the backhoe located? Are you digging from the side of the tree (perpendicular to the direction of the fall) or in front or behind where the tree will fall? Or it doesn't really matter?

Obed,

Again, good job!!

Like I mentioned earlier, you want to start digging and make your deepest trench on the side that you want the tree to fall. You parked your tractor perfectly to do this and I might be wrong in suggesting you dig in a V shape. But I would have parked more centered on the tree. This way your hoe stick can dig on either side of the tree without you having to move the tractor.

I'm trying to explain how I do it, but take into consideration that your tractor is smaller. So this might not work for you. From looking at your pictures, I thought it would, but I just don't know for sure. It will save time, but if you can't reach out far enough to dig the trench on both side from the one location, than it's no big deal. You did a great job and it worked just like it's supposed to.

Undercutting the root ball mean rubbing your boom along the bark of the tree as you bring the dipper stick down with the teeth of your bucket under the roots. Just a little dirt that's removed from under the root ball will make it allot easier to break the tree free from it's hold.

I never move my backhoe when I'm digging my trenches on the fall side and the push side. I dig the trenches and undercut the root ball.

Jason,

Obviously there's no predicting what a dead branch will do in a tree, no matter how you cut it down, or if you're just unlucky to walk under one at the wrong time. One of the things I think a few guys are missing is how slowly the trees fall over when you push them over this way. There is no sudden drop or jerking of the tree. Even with the entire tree trenched down deep, the tree wont fall over on it's own. It takes allot of force to get it going, and even then, the tap root, or the dirt, or just the weight of the root ball keeps the tree from falling very quickly.

If I was to compare the two, they fall half as fast this way. Which, in my opinion, makes falling branches less likely than with the sudden drop you get when taking them down with a chainsaw.

John,

When I'm done digging the first two trenches, l try to push the tree over with the side preasure of the boom. I didnt recomend this to Obed as I don't think he has enough power to put them over from the side force of his hoe stick. Your's is in the same class as mine, so that changes things.

I can only get them over this way about a third of the time. Most trees will fall over real easy when I change position and push. Sometimes I need to find the right spot to push. This is one of those things that you just sort of get a feel for. Where to put the bucket to get maximum force when pushing trees over. The same is true for distance from the tree. Too close is just as bad as too far.

I'm not sure how much sideways power Obed has on his hoe, but with mine, and I'm sure yours, I can steer a tree on it's way down. To keep things simple, and to answer your question, you should be 180 degrees from where you want the tree to go. Pushing straight away will give you the most power and control.

Dave,

I learned how to take trees down this way by an operator shortly after moving here. Before that, I always used a chainsaw and dug out the root ball. I've taken root balls out by hand with a shovel and I've hired it done with a backhoe. Until I saw it done, I had know idea how easy and fast it could be to just take out the whole tree all at once.

I've never read any books on how to run a tractor and have picked up what little I know from other operators or articles I've read online or in magazines. I'm sure guys have been taking trees out this way since the first backhoe was invented.

Thank you for the link and source of the book. I'm sure I could learn allot from it might just buy a copy.

I hope nobody thinks I'm somehow taking credit for thinking this method up? It's just how it's done with backhoes here.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[john_bud]

Eddie,

OK, that makes sense.

Your hoe is a step up in size from mine on the tractor side. The hoe is about the same size I think. 14' depth. It has 2 swing cylinders 4 1/2 bore with a 2 1/4 rod and they are used in "pull" mode. Lots of power there. The boom, bucket and dipper are 4" bore. It was able to dig thru sandstone with a 36" bucket that only had 1 tooth.

I really think Ford messed up putting cylinders that large on the hoe. Everyone I have seen is cracked and welded. Powerful, but fragile!

jb

 

[Renze]

Obed, when can we enjoy pictures of your little mean green machine, pushing that big tree over ??

 

[Obed]

Maybe I missed it, but time wise, how long do you think it took you from start to finish? Nice job, by the way.

BTDT,
Here's an approximate breakdown:

Dropping the tree - 45 minutes
Dragging the tree off to the stump dump - 15 minutes
Filling in the hole with my FEL - 10 minutes
Taking pictures - 20 minutes
Celebrating - 2 days

With some experience, dropping the tree could be done much quicker. I bet Eddie could knock it over in 5 minutes. I'm sure I dug a lot more than I really needed to for this small tree. Plus I was taking my time - no deadline, just having fun.
Obed

 

[Obed]

The only difference is that Ober illustrates cutting roots on the side toward the backhoe before pushing. Clearly Eddie's technique allows for taking out larger trees.

I have to admit that cutting the roots on the "fall" side of the tree makes me a little nervous. But it will allow the dropping of larger trees. However, even after I had dug on both the "fall" side and the "push" side of my small practice tree, I had to push really hard on the tree to make it fall over.

After I get some more experience, I'll get a better feel for how much digging is required in order to drop the tree. My tractor is no match for the "real" TLBs so I have to do a lot more digging. Obviously, the most conservative and safest method would be to only cut roots on the "push" side of the tree. That would make it really hard for the tree to fall back on the tractor when positioning it to push on the tree with the backhoe. However, I doubt my tractor could drop a tree of any substantial size by only digging on one side.

BTW, my little backhoe has very little force when pushing sideways with the hoe. When filling in a hole that I've dug, I can scrape the dirt sideways back into the hole but only if the dirt I'm trying to move is very deep. Otherwise I have to scrape off a little at a time. I don't think I would have any success trying to push over a tree from the side, even a little tree.
Obed

 

[Defective]

Obed,

Ya done good! A near-perfect fall on your first try.

I've taken trees down both ways. As most of my felling has been for lumber and firewood, I usually use a saw. On the other hand, if the stump needs to come out, I prefer the backhoe. You should have no trouble with the size of tree you're working up to. My last backhoe was mounted on an 8N and had no trouble with trees up to 28" across. (biggest I ever tried, don't know where the limit is...) I'm by no means certain, but your hoe looks to be about the same size. Just going slow & careful means a small tractor can do many big jobs.

I keep seeing warnings & panic about dead limbs & broken trunks creep into this thread. These are problems whichever way you take the tree down. When I prepare to fell a tree using a saw, I inspect the whole tree before I start cutting. I do the same when I use a backhoe. It's called common sense.

Eddie,

One benefit I've always found to working from both sides of the tree instead of your preferred (dig both trenches from one place) method: I can dig like a madman from the down side & undercut the tree quite a bit safely. Then, when I dig from the other side, I can often watch the tree slowly fall away from me without pushing it at all. Kinda neat to watch...

(note...I started writing this immediately after looking at the last picture. I'm too lazy to go back & completely reword it if I'm duplicating anything someone else said before I finished... )

Obed,

I now see you've already learned the "slow & careful" lesson well...

Only cutting roots on the "push" side of the tree is actually more hazardous than you think. If the "fall" side of the tree, for some unknown reason, has weak roots (it happens), then the tree can sway back & squash you when you go to push it over. With a deep hole on the "fall" side, the tree will WANT to go where you're sending it.

Again, inspect the whole tree before you start. Hint: Lots of dead branches on one side of a tree often means the roots on that side have been damaged. (could also be a sign of trauma in the branches, but I wouldn't make that bet...) Of course, lots of dead branches would send me looking for a cherry picker to take the tree down in pieces.

 

[Renze]

No need to push trees right now in Holland: its a pretty strong storm and trees are falling everywhere... The 6 ton polyester silo for the horse feed was blown over because there wasnt enough feed in it to keep it in place... i'll put it back upright tomorrow with the FEL after my brother torches a rag of roofing bitumen over the crack...

 

[Egon]

There are some trees I have been able to remove by just pushing.

 

[Obed]

One benefit I've always found to working from both sides of the tree instead of your preferred (dig both trenches from one place) method: I can dig like a madman from the down side & undercut the tree quite a bit safely. Then, when I dig from the other side, I can often watch the tree slowly fall away from me without pushing it at all.

Defective,
Ok, I'm beginning to understand why I need to dig the "fall" side trench deeper than the "push" side. When you dig the "fall" side trench, where is your backhoe? When digging from the side of the tree as shown in my pictures with my small bucket, it is difficult to undercut the rootball because my bucket is not much wider than the dipperstick. With my dipperstick against the tree trunk, my buck doesn't really get very far under the tree.
Obed

 

[Obed]

Obed, when can we enjoy pictures of your little mean green machine, pushing that big tree over ??

Renze,
I might drop another practice tree this Saturday. Here's a picture of the next practice tree. Look at the bottom right hand corner of Practice_Tree2.jpg. See the pair of trees on the side of the road. I'm not sure if I'm dealing here with one tree with a shared root ball or two separate trees.

All,
I'd sure like some suggestions from all you guys on how to attack this pair of trunks with my backhoe. It looks a little more complicated than my first tree.

This tree, like my first practice tree, is also preventing me from creating a proper ditch and is causing the road to wash. Practice_Tree2.jpg is a picture of the road after grading with my box blade. See CUT Box Blade Newbie - Road Pictures for the thread on my first attempt at grading a road (this road). Road Before Grading Showing Washout By Double Practice Tree shows the practice tree on the left. The big tree that is my final target is down the road on the right (although in the distance it looks smaller than the double practice tree).

However, before I can tackle my next tree, I need to re-set the electric pole at the camper site Electric Pole. This is a 16 foot pole the electrician put up last week. It's only 2 feet in the ground and he didn't use any concrete. I'm hoping I'll have time on Saturday to re-set the electric pole and drop another tree. But we'll see.
Obed

 

[CurlyDave]

However, before I can tackle my next tree, I need to re-set the electric pole at the camper site...

How are you planning to re-set that pole?

Are you going to take all of the electrical panels, conduit, weatherhead, etc. off first, or do you have a way to re-set it with them still on?

Not criticizing, just curious in case I ever have to do something like that.

 

[BTDT]

Might build you one of these to pull pole. Adjust size to fit your tractor. Recommend that electricity be disconnected first before using. Safety and all that.