Best Way To Remove This Tree

/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #61  
Obed said:
...However, as soon as I removed the force of the bucket on the tree, the tree fell right over beside the road instead of into the road.

Kinda odd that the tree would fall in the direction of the push once you stopped pushing.:confused:

By the way, this is a very useful set of photos. Let's see if Eddie comments on your technique.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree
  • Thread Starter
#62  
Notice that the tree is not lying completely on the ground yet. The guide roots on each side of the tree are still holding. Thus I took a few bites on the remaining roots on each side of the tree. The tree laid flat on the ground once these roots were cut.
 

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/ Best Way To Remove This Tree
  • Thread Starter
#63  
Here's the prize! After cutting the roots on each side I then cleaned as much dirt of the root ball with the backhoe.
 

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/ Best Way To Remove This Tree
  • Thread Starter
#64  
I hooked a chain around the tree and dragged it off to my stump dump. Then I filled in the whole with the FEL. You can't tell a tree was ever there!
 

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/ Best Way To Remove This Tree
  • Thread Starter
#65  
IslandTractor said:
Kinda odd that the tree would fall in the direction of the push once you stopped pushing.:confused:

By the way, this is a very useful set of photos. Let's see if Eddie comments on your technique.

Yes I'm hoping to get Eddie's comments.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #66  
Obed said:
Yes I'm hoping to get Eddie's comments.
Obed, since that tree did not behave as you thought it would, I'm real glad it did not injur you or your property.

Taking down trees, whether with a machine, a saw, a back hoe, a FEL, requires multiple plans all derived around safety as the first priority. If you do something in the process of taking down a tree and get a surprise, it is probably because something wrong was done or not enough planning took place. While there may be some exceptions, they are not the rule if you plan accordingly.

Professional timbermen's job is rated in the top 5 most dangerous for a reason. These guys usually know what they are doing but get injured or killed when they've overlooked something. Rarely is it because of a surprise or an uncalculated happenstance.

Tree's are nothing to **** with. Take each and everyone that needs attention with the utmost respect and thought.

Sorry ta preach ... just that this thread did not have the tone I like to associate with the activity.

Glad to hear everything went ok.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #67  
Congrats Obed!!

Thanks for the kind words and finding that picture of me taking out that tree. I actually looked for something like that in my photo's to show you, but forgot all about that being there in that thread. You must have spent some time here looking up those old threads!!!!! hahaha

You did a fantastic job taking pictures of your project, and how you did it. You picked a good, safe, easy tree to start out with and gained some first hand experience. This thread should be the one everyone goes to when they want to take out thier first tree with a backhoe. For no other reason, than to see your pictures.

I have a few comments, but nothing critical.

When you positioned youreself to start digging, you could have put the backhoe centered on the tree. There is no real advantage to diging the trenches perfectly square. I dig mine more like a "V" from one position.

Though you didn't need to, it will really help with bigger trees to use the teeth of your bucket to cut under the root ball as much as you can reach. Especially on the side that it's going to fall. You just chip away or rub away as much dirt as you can get. If you can still get dirt in your bucket, you should keep removing it. Only when you can't get any more dirt should you stop. This will really help on the larger trees. As you know, small trees don't realy need too much, they go over nice and easy.

When you change directions, I bet you had that feeling that the tree would fall down on you? I did the first time and it's not a very comfortable feeling. But that tree isn't going anyplace, as you know. In fact, I bet you were suprised at how solid it was even after you dug those trenches???

When you push it over, sometimes the distance you are from it will make a difference, and as you learned, also where on the tree you push makes a difference. If you can't get it to go over, and this will happen with bigger trees, then you will have to dig trenches on either side of the tree. Again, I dig them from one location in the shape of a "V"

You don't have to go as deep in most cases and after I cut through the surface roots, I try to push again. If it still doesnt' go, get as close to the tree as you can, and try to undercut the root ball with the teeth of your bucket. You will have to dig under the root ball and then along the sides back towards yourself. With really big trees with massive tap roots, this means taking out ALLOT of dirt. I don't advise this with our machine, but wanted you to know what to expect in the worse cases.

When you push the tree, you can also turn it with your hoe stick. I don't know how much power you have going from side to side, but it doesn't take allot when the tree is starting to lean over.

As you found out, once it gets so far over, the weight of the tree does the work.

Another thing to try is to roll the root ball with the bucket by lifting on the oposite side you want it to go and roll the entire tree over.

There are all sorts of little things that you'll pick up on and do that just come from knowing your machine and doing it a few times. From what I saw in the pictures and your comments, I believe you to be a very competent operator that has a very good understanding of what to do and how to take out trees.

One big bonus that I'm sure you, and everyone eles who's been following this thread must have noticed, is how easily you got that root ball out. If you had cut the tree down with the chainsaw, you would still have to dig up the root ball, and it would have been twice the work without the tree still attached to it. Bigger hole, more time and effort, then more work to fill the much larger hole back up again. This way you got it down in one easy step.

Thank you for taking the time to post those pictures and your comments,
Eddie
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #68  
DAP said:
Obed, since that tree did not behave as you thought it would, I'm real glad it did not injur you or your property.

Are you talking about the part when the tree layed down nice and easy beside the road and not on the road? I'd hardly call this something to be worried about. The tree went where he wanted it to, when he wanted it to on his very first try.

How many of you can do that with a chainsaw? Ropes and cables will help, but even then, the tree will land close to where you want it, not exactly. In time he should be able to get it even better and put it exacly where he wants it.

Again, cutting trees down with a chainsaw, even pros who have been doing so for decades, is unpredictable and dangerous. Using the backhoe gives the operator contorl over what the tree does and when it happens. I'm not saying it's one hundred percent, but I am saying it's much, much safer than the chain saw.

What more could you possible hope for? He missed his mark by a few feet. I'm calling that a home run with bases loaded!!!!!

Eddie
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #69  
EddieWalker said:
I've heard all sorts of stories of injury or damage from a tree that's cut down with a chainsaw. The best and most experienced people with a chainsaw will all have stories of close calls, injuries or of those who died from cutting down a tree this way.
Good luck,
Eddie


Eddie, You hear more stories about close calls with a chainsaw than closecalls with a BH due to there being about 100 million chainsaws in the USA and less than 1 million BH's. (pure guess on the numbers, but it makes the point.) Also, the average BH operator has a skill level that is higher than the average chainsaw operator's skill level with the saw.

So naturally, you are going to have more incidents with saws coming to light than you are with BH's.

Personally, I would cut the tree down then trim the stump flush and leave it. The tree would be either boards, lathe turning stock or firewood.

I really do hope that you turned that beautiful tree from the picture into boards and not ashes ...

jb
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #70  
EddieWalker said:
Are you talking about the part when the tree layed down nice and easy beside the road and not on the road? I'd hardly call this something to be worried about. The tree went where he wanted it to, when he wanted it to on his very first try.

....
What more could you possible hope for? He missed his mark by a few feet. I'm calling that a home run with bases loaded!!!!!

Eddie
ummm Mr. Walker .. all due respect....

I wanted the tree to fall in the road, not beside it. Thus I decided to stop pushing and reposition the tractor a little to get a slightly different angle. However, as soon as I removed the force of the bucket on the tree, the tree fell right over beside the road instead of into the road.

In fact, this did not go at all like the operator had hoped, planned for or counted on. I'll say he even was lucky he was not seriously hurt given what he claims actually happened.

Using a backhoe, things happen real fast and you are encumbered by your relationship to the machine, which will either kill you or protect you if it is properly enclosed. Up here in Maine, all the logging machines have cages - for good reason.

With a chain saw, you can control events and slow things down to safer proportions. I don't want to start a p****ing contest over what is better or what is not, but I'm not sure this poster got the best advise.

Peace
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #71  
Properly done with a chainsaw, that tree would
have been safely down hours before nightfall.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #72  
John,

You bring up a good point and of course, you are absolutely right in pointing out the flaw in my reasoning. I'll stop making that comparison and just leave it as is. Those who have a backhoe can decide for themselves how safe it is. Those who do not have one, will just have to enjoy the pictures and see how the rest of us take out trees.

Doug,

I agree with you that I would like to avoid an argument. The entire reason for being here is to share ideas, help each other out and learn from what everyone has to offer.

I offered a method to take out a tree that I feel is much faster and easier than using a chain saw. I've taken out trees with chainsaws and dug out roots too. Given the two choices, it's not even close as to which method I'm going to use.

Do you have a backhoe or know how to operate one?

I ask this because I question wether you have a valid opinion based on personal experience with both ways to do this, or if you are comfortable with your method and don't believe me when I offer another?

You have twice said that the tree removal with the backhoe did not go as the operator had hoped. Would you be so kind as to explain what happened that brought you to this conclusion?

I'm not seeing what you are seeing and the only way I can learn, or improve, is to learn what I've done wrong and correct it. I have no desire to die or become injured doing something as meaningless as remove a tree. Nor would I want that to happen to anybody else.

JHT,

I agree that it would have been fairly easy to have that tree, or any other down on the ground much faster with a chainsaw. But then there is a stump in the ground. How fast could you take out the stump with the same tools?

That stump AND tree came out quickly and safely in one operation. What you are missing is that the job isn't even half way done if you just cut down the tree. The REAL work is getting out the stump.

To everyone,

I might be coming at this differently than what most of you are used to. I am more of a commercial operation than a home farm hobbiest. I'm not going to spend a day or weekend messing around with a stump if I can get the entire tree from standing there, to the burn pile, in an hour or less. I've taken out more trees than I ever wanted to, and I'll continue to take them out for the next year or so. In my part of Texas, trees are like weeds and it's not even possilbe to walk through them in many areas.

I do not intend to offend those who disagree with me, but if you've never done it this way, how can you say it's wrong or more dangerous?

Thank you,
Eddie
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #73  
EddieWalker said:
You have twice said that the tree removal with the backhoe did not go as the operator had hoped. Would you be so kind as to explain what happened that brought you to this conclusion?

...
Hi Eddie .. I have many hours on a back hoe although I no longer own one. Not near as many hours as you probably have. Now .. please read Obed's postings again or see my post #70 in this thread where I quote Obed. The tree felling was a surprise according to him.

The point is an issue of safety, efficiency and enjoyment .. in that order. Cutting corners when dealing with trees is asking for a bad afternoon, thats my point, zall.

Peace friend.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #74  
obed, one other word of caution. Be extremely careful when pushing on any trees with your hoe or FEL any dead limbs can break off and fall on you or your tractor and with no FOPS can result in serious injury or death.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #75  
Good Job Obed!

Obviously there are differing opinions being shared here. Don't necessarily take one persons advice over another- after all it is your choice! In my opinion, and from my experience of removing about 25 trees last summer/fall ranging from 10" dia to 22" dia, things occur slower not faster during the critical time of the tree actually falling. I admit I am not a professional timberman, but when I cut the trees I have had many more unexpected surprises. With my backhoe, I have never yet had a tree not do what I wanted or thought it would.

That being said, I probably would not tackle anything larger with my hoe.

I would disagree with anyone who thinks you could cut a tree down and then dig out the stump nearly as fast as you can using Eddie's method. As a matter of fact, I have some stumps to remove (tree was already cut) that I am not sure I can now get out with my hoe.

Be Safe! Jason
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #76  
DAP said:
Hi Eddie .. I have many hours on a back hoe although I no longer own one. Not near as many hours as you probably have. Now .. please read Obed's postings again or see my post #70 in this thread where I quote Obed. The tree felling was a surprise according to him.

The point is an issue of safety, efficiency and enjoyment .. in that order. Cutting corners when dealing with trees is asking for a bad afternoon, thats my point, zall.

Peace friend.

Hi Doug,

Thank you for explaining you reasoning. I appreciate it as I seem to end up in these disagreements with a few posters who tell me why I'm wrong, but don't have the ability to explain why. If I sounded rude in my earlier post, I apologize.

I'll let you post stand as is, since it can be interpeted different ways. If Obed wishes to clarify it, than I'll leave it up to him.

I agree that safety is everyones fist priority, and if he, or any others, don't feel safe taking out a tree with a backhoe, then they shouldn't.

I feel that way about taking down trees with a chainsaw. I've done quite that way without a problem, but that doesn't mean there won't be one. Chainsaws scare me. Table saws scare me. Big drills scare me. Heights scare me. And most of all, SNAKES SCARE ME!!! I deal with all of the the best I can, but I also avoid them all as much as I can. :)

Thank you,
Eddie
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #77  
One other note of caution! Different species of trees obviously have different root sytems. The trees I removed were mostly ash, cherry, and hackberry. The cherry were the easiest to remove and I didn't do as much digging on them before attempting to push them over.

I would suppose different soil types would also affect how well rooted the tree is also.

Jason
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #78  
JasonL said:
One other note of caution! Different species of trees obviously have different root sytems. The trees I removed were mostly ash, cherry, and hackberry. The cherry were the easiest to remove and I didn't do as much digging on them before attempting to push them over.

I would suppose different soil types would also affect how well rooted the tree is also.

Jason

That is a good point. Also when pushing a tree over you must make sure not to be so close where the root ball can come up under your tractor, stabilizer arm, etc.
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree #79  
Obed... great job on the tree. Thanks for the pictures too. Whenever you get around to doing the tree from the original post... I'd love to see the pics of it also.

Thanks and be safe!
 
/ Best Way To Remove This Tree
  • Thread Starter
#80  
DAP said:
In fact, this did not go at all like the operator had hoped, planned for or counted on. I'll say he even was lucky he was not seriously hurt given what he claims actually happened.

DAP,
My description of where the tree fell wasn't very clear. Actually, overall I was very pleased. The top of the 30 ft tree landed about 6 feet away from where I wanted it to land. The tree landed parallel to the road right beside it instead of the top landing in the middle of the road where I wanted it. However, the tree landed exactly where I was pushing it with the bucket. When I realized that, I wanted to reposition the backhoe but it was too late. Having the top miss my mark by only 6 feet left me pretty happy for my first attempt. I did take the advice from this thread and try my luck on a small tree. There wasn't anything unsafe. But I appreciate the input to be cautious.
Obed
 

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