A "which one to buy" thread

[John in AR]

We finally moved to our rural property and I'm looking into tractors. Been looking into them for quite a while, but am just now getting serious about pulling the trigger on one.

Fwiw, our situation - right at 40 acres, but only ~10 of it is cleared; the rest is scrub woods. Basically have ~2 acres of 'lawn' around the house and ~8 acres of field/pasture to bush hog. On the lawn near the house, still have our old 48" Deere riding mower that can do that no problem, so I'm okay without a finish mower on the new tractor, at least initially. I want to eventually put in some trails and maybe some cleared areas in the woods, for riding, shooting range, or whatever else. Not a ton, but it's something I'll need the tractor to do to one degree or another. I'm assuming a grapple (and therefore a third-function valve up front) would be almost a must-have, but that's just an assumption - there may be something better that I'm not aware of. On brush-hog, a 6' would be nice, but with the future trail-clearing work, I wonder if a smaller 5' hog with bigger cut-diameter rating might be a better idea. Not sure if HST is very important for our purposes; seems like a good idea, but never used one besides our current riding mower.

Initially I was intrigued by the B2601HST, largely probably because of all the youtube videos with them. Then I sat on one, and it was a deal-killer before even starting up the tractor. I wear size 15 shoes, and the rocker pedal (size and location both) was an immediate no-go for me personally. Just too small and too close. The dealer had an L3301 and it was a little better, but still didn't really like it. I went to a New Holland dealer in the same town and was surprised to see a few Kioti's there. I'd never looked into a Kioti, and checked out a CK3510 and a Workmaster 25(?) there; of the two I was much more comfortable on the CK3510, and am leaning that direction at this point. Neither dealer is particularly close to us, both 45 minutes away or so. Can't really define the 'why' of it, but for whatever reason, the CK was the most comfortable of the new tractors I've tried, all of which have only been briefly.

Basically, looking for guidance, ideas, and pitfalls of the Kioti compared to the New Holland, and is the Kubota enough 'better' that it would be worth the reduced physical comfort?

 

[Shaneard]

Since you wear a size 15 shoe I think you'll be better off to sit on all flavors and whichever one fits you best is the one you need. Today, they are all pretty good brands truth be told.

 

[Diggin It]

I went to a New Holland dealer in the same town and was surprised to see a few Kioti's there. I'd never looked into a Kioti, and checked out a CK3510 and a Workmaster 25(?) there; of the two I was much more comfortable on the CK3510, and am leaning that direction at this point. Neither dealer is particularly close to us, both 45 minutes away or so. Can't really define the 'why' of it, but for whatever reason, the CK was the most comfortable of the new tractors I've tried, all of which have only been briefly.

Basically, looking for guidance, ideas, and pitfalls of the Kioti compared to the New Holland,

If you're looking at smaller NH models, look at LS who makes those NH models. LS is identical to NH except for the lighter blue paint and much lower prices. My 13s fit the pedals of my MT 125 (same machine as the Workmaster 25) just fine , but I seem to have a knee clearance problem with the left side brake pedal. For some reason I haven't figured out yet, my left knee hurts after being on the machine for longer periods.

 

[BRMyers]

Not sure how much you are wanting to spend, but the Kubota Grand series has more room than the L2601.

As far as is the value worth it, since I haven't owned the others, can't speak towards the value, but if you are going to be using something alot, you want it to be usable and part of that usability is comfort.

 

[John in AR]

All - thanks for the replies.

Shaneard, really not much difference (reliably/functionally) nowadays? I've not run a tractor much since leaving the farm nearly 40 years ago.

Digginit, thanks for the LS tip. I knew there was a lot of cross-manufacturing in the market, but didn't know those were actually the same tractor.

BRMyers - I was assuming the Grand L series might be a bit big for trail-clearing in the woods.


Any thoughts on HST vs geared, or implement selection? Rotary cutter size vs. cutting diameter, grapple brands, things like that? Thanks again

 

[Diggin It]

Any thoughts on HST vs geared,

What I've picked up on here is that HST is better for positioning things, FEL, pallet fork work, snow removal, etc. where you're changing direction or speed frequently. Geared is better for longer runs of plowing, disk work, larger rotary cutter work in fields, etc. where you're moving in the same direction and speed.

 

[Shaneard]

John, I think they are all about the same. It's like Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. they all have some things that are different but they all do the same thing. Get what is comfortable and roll on is what I say.

 

[tradosaurus]

We finally moved to our rural property and I'm looking into tractors. Been looking into them for quite a while, but am just now getting serious about pulling the trigger on one.

Fwiw, our situation - right at 40 acres, but only ~10 of it is cleared; the rest is scrub woods. Basically have ~2 acres of 'lawn' around the house and ~8 acres of field/pasture to bush hog. On the lawn near the house, still have our old 48" Deere riding mower that can do that no problem, so I'm okay without a finish mower on the new tractor, at least initially. I want to eventually put in some trails and maybe some cleared areas in the woods, for riding, shooting range, or whatever else. Not a ton, but it's something I'll need the tractor to do to one degree or another. I'm assuming a grapple (and therefore a third-function valve up front) would be almost a must-have, but that's just an assumption - there may be something better that I'm not aware of. On brush-hog, a 6' would be nice, but with the future trail-clearing work, I wonder if a smaller 5' hog with bigger cut-diameter rating might be a better idea. Not sure if HST is very important for our purposes; seems like a good idea, but never used one besides our current riding mower.

Initially I was intrigued by the B2601HST, largely probably because of all the youtube videos with them. Then I sat on one, and it was a deal-killer before even starting up the tractor. I wear size 15 shoes, and the rocker pedal (size and location both) was an immediate no-go for me personally. Just too small and too close. The dealer had an L3301 and it was a little better, but still didn't really like it. I went to a New Holland dealer in the same town and was surprised to see a few Kioti's there. I'd never looked into a Kioti, and checked out a CK3510 and a Workmaster 25(?) there; of the two I was much more comfortable on the CK3510, and am leaning that direction at this point. Neither dealer is particularly close to us, both 45 minutes away or so. Can't really define the 'why' of it, but for whatever reason, the CK was the most comfortable of the new tractors I've tried, all of which have only been briefly.

Basically, looking for guidance, ideas, and pitfalls of the Kioti compared to the New Holland, and is the Kubota enough 'better' that it would be worth the reduced physical comfort?

I have property similar to yours. About 45 acres, 3 acres around house the rest trees. For the past 2 months I have been making trails but I have tall trees. I rented a skid steer to see if that would work but got it stuck (10,000 lbs). I have been using a small L3301 Kubota with HST. The small tractor has been great, allowing me to move between trees and minimize my need to use a chainsaw.

 

[BRMyers]

I've not had an issue with mine when it has coming to clearing. Although many wouldn't want a cab in the woods, I prefer the cab to take the beating than me. (You don't have to get the Grand series with a cab.)

 

[cholland]

I didn't look at the New Holland's. I bought a Kioti 3510 over the Kubota and am very happy with it. I recomend the SE, it has some nice extra features. I think HST is preferred and the SE has cruise control if you doing some major field work.
Mine handles a 65" Woods box blade with no problems. I think it would do fine with a 6' rotary cutter. I'm leaning towards a flail mower myself. I had a W.R. Long 3rd function installed and am on the list for an EA wicked grapple, still about 6 weeks away.

As for service mine blew a hydraulic seal a 10 hrs. Dealer was out within 24 hrs and fixed it in 45 minutes.
Ultimately what's your feeling on talking with the dealers and who's going to give you good knowledgeable support. You are buying a tractor and a relationship with the dealer/service.

 

[RickB]

I would suggest HST for your uses, cruise control would not be a priority. Probably something in the range of a Kubota L3301-L4701. I am not convinced the features of the Grand L series would be worth the cost. If you just want them, that is different, go for it.
Have you noticed i am only mentioning Kubota?

 

[oosik]

I have a Kubota M6040 with Land Pride HD grapple and very heavy duty Rhino 950 rear blade. In total the tractor weighs - 10,100 pounds. It's definitely not the size I would recommend for your uses.

However - there are certain things that you should consider. I do a LOT of work with the grapple - moving large rocks and large sections of pine tree trunks. Back dragging to smooth ground and to gather up limbs etc. I've never had a tractor with HST - they have always been geared. The geared tractor works just fine for me and everything I do. Don't limit your choice to only HST units.

If you are going to be using a rotary cutter ( brush hog ) then a cab would probably be the way to go. I personally do no brush hogging - my "M" is open station - I enjoy being out in the fresh air - even in the winter. I cut my half acre pasture with my JD riding lawn mower three times a year. What a Devils storm of dust that creates. If I had to cut many acres - I definitely would have considered a cabbed tractor.

Look at the jobs/projects you want to do/accomplish. What size implement will best fit these jobs/projects. This can have a significant bearing on the size tractor that might be required.

Check out the maintenance department on any brand you are considering. Does it appear to be a well run operation. You never know - now-a-days most any new tractor could need repairs. If you have questions regarding the technical aspects of a tractor - the maintenance supervisor is the person to discuss this with. The salesman is good at sales - the maintenance dept will be the ones that do any repairs and will answer technical questions.

 

[Jchonline]

Lots of great advice here already. Find a good dealer with a longstanding reputation for service and stability. I would not be too concerned about brand. LS, Kioti, Kubota as you mention are great options. For 40 acres I would go with something a bit bigger than the B series Kubota size.

As mentioned, Cab if you are doing a bunch of mowing (8 acres isnt a bunch) or for winter use or if you have health conditions that require it. Open station if you want easier access (on/off), visibility, agility in the woods.

 

[the old grind]

The cab you appreciate when hogging might get dinged in the woods, but I can see safety from stinging swarms and keeping one's clothes cleaner. Soft cab option offers much by lower cost & easier to patch-up if just no AC that way.

I'm sure you'd want HST, a grapple (narrow-ish will maneuver better, weight less ), and a flail mower. 25 hp on PTO is IMO a bare minimum, and 30 will do a fair bit more. Hogging will bear that out, I promise. Be sure you have SSQA FEL or can add pin-on conversion later. Most SCUTs won't do for the typical size wt implements we use there, so few come with it for a reason.

I'd only mention other brands for their less ghastly color, but I agree the orange ones are the benchmarks.

That said, Branson and LS are the typically 'sleeper' bargains I'm shopping to replace the big Deere. You only need a dealer for the stuff you break. :2cents:

 

[ericm979]

I'm happy with my Branson and it cost a lot less than the equivalent Kubota. But the dealer network is sparse compared to Kubota (as are many other brands). I woudn't mind Kubota Grand L series HST+ with the extra two speed shift on the fly trans but that would just reduce transit time. Not worth $10k.

The grapple is super useful for moving brush and logs. I also use a PTO chipper to reduce brush and slash to chips. Between hot dry summers and permits it's pretty much impossible to burn here.
My Branson's loader has a 2200 lb capacity and I wish I had the newer model with ~400lbs more. We have some large trees (48"+) that I have had to cut into rounds at site rather than move the log. If you will be lifting heavy stuff get the rear tires filled.

 

[Qapla]

Make sure whatever tractor you decide on you are comfortable with how it operates.

I like Kubota. They are very well built and have a good reputation. However, I most likely would not buy one - simply because I do not like the rocker pedal on the HST. I find it more trouble than having two pedals and it hurts my foot and ankle every time I need to backup.

I have used a NH TC40D for several years. It has two pedals that you just move your toe from one to the other. For me - that is much more comfortable.

Since you mentioned your size 15 feet - don't just sit on any tractor you like ... make sure you drive/operate it.

 

[mred2]

I also have a size 15. I like the Mahindra until I drove it. Another size may have been better. The MF just didn't seem to fit. The LS was the to ride for the price. Shutter shift, no cab. I use my feet for the clutch and the brakes.

 

[searcyfarms]

hi john and welcome, it sounds like with size 15 feet you might be tall as well, you will be hard pressed to get comfortable on a scut you might have to go cut to have room you like.

Im not tall 5/11 and only 13 shoe however i personally do NOT like being crammed up close to my levers/operations/steering wheel and i drive a care the same way. Do you like to be stretched out with plenty of room.

Why......when you are bouncing around/moving/shifting/reaching you dont want to be banging knees/elbows/ribs/ up against things and to maintain good control you want to have room to move. When your body is moving around you need to have the extra room for still being able to step on a brake/hst pedal w/out being impeded.

The machines such as ls/deere/kioti with the dual pedals off to the side of the are more roomy since you can stick your foot out to the side rather than being bent to run the teeter totter on a Kubota which it sounds like you have already discovered.

Like others have recommended DRIVE and OPERATE many of them you will find what fits and you like the most.

Move the seat and check for tilt wheel, get on/off both sides if they offer that, reach around for things, look over the back to see PTO/Mounting arms for backing up to things, there are LOTS to taken when test driving so have fun with that. IF your wife will be using it take her along let her experience it as well.

 

[rScotty]

All - thanks for the replies.

Shaneard, really not much difference (reliably/functionally) nowadays? I've not run a tractor much since leaving the farm nearly 40 years ago.

Digginit, thanks for the LS tip. I knew there was a lot of cross-manufacturing in the market, but didn't know those were actually the same tractor.

BRMyers - I was assuming the Grand L series might be a bit big for trail-clearing in the woods.


Any thoughts on HST vs geared, or implement selection? Rotary cutter size vs. cutting diameter, grapple brands, things like that? Thanks again

Tractors are not all that much different now from 30 years ago. In fact, as you get to know your new rural neighbors I'll bet you are surprised at just how many of them have older tractors that run about the same as newer ones. That may be because there was a lot of progress made in tractor features from 50 years ago to about 30 years ago.

Compared with 30 years ago, everything has a 4wd option now. You want that, even though on tractors it is still basically a power assist type rather than full time all wheel drive.
For comfort, seats haven't changed much except some do slide back a little, steering angle and position tends to be adjustable now, power steering is now more common.
Be sure to check out the ease with which you get on and off the tractor. You'll do that a surprising amount and I hope you find that tractors are easier to mount now than used to be.

Front end loaders are near identical except that buckets on the front are now SSQA (skid steer spec Quick Change). BTW, you definitely want SSQA. Check that on the FEL you can move the bucket powerfully while simultaneously lifting or lowering the main FEL arms..... You do want that ability, and some manufacturers don't offer that anymore. Some do; some don't.

Engines are much the same. You'll probably never need to do anything to the engine - whether new or old. Turbos are more common now, and some newer machines have more pollution control devices for wringing cleaner exhaust out of smaller higher RPM engines instead of the older heavy low RPM engines in older tractors. But from a user standpoint engines are all good.

PTOs haven't changed at all in 40 years. You still want to get an independent type, but size and RPM are still the same as always. Your brand new tractor will run a 50 year old implement without any adapter. Same goes for the all-important 3pt hitch, but there you will find that some features that used to be common are now discontinued or extra expense. Probably worth it to go ahead and get those older features, even if you have to pay extra. Take a close look at the 3pt hitch.

Get as much as possible of these 3pt features I'm going to mention here: Get selectable draft control and position control, telescoping lower lift arms, pin-adjustable side sway bars instead of those stupid chains, and look to get hand-geared cranks to adjust the side links instead of threads and lock nuts. These last few things can be added aftermarket, but at an expense.

You asked about transmissions. Basically it comes down to the old gears and clutch vs the newer HST transmissions. HST is wonderful for delicately moving around and also has lots of power. Theoretically one HST speed in forward and reverse is all you need, for everything from heavy pulling to racing down the road. But realistically the more selectable speeds and ranges that any HST tranny has the better (and quieter) it works. The top of the line HST being the 6 speed HST+ (HST plus) on some Kubotas. They get double the gear speeds by using a syncronized electro/hydraulic shifter on a vintage two speed rear axle. So far nobody else has tumbled to doing that. It's a great tranny.

But in the meanwhile those old geared transmissions now come standard with auto-clutching powershifting, lots and lots of speed including sometimes creeper gears. It's commont to get several ranges and a full set of gear speeds in each. Plus it's not uncommon to have a reversing lever that simply takes whatever you are doing going forward and instantly gives you the same gear in reverse - all instantly without stopping or even clutching. Clutches work as good as they always did and last even longer.... often the life of the tractor. So if you like using a clutch, there are some great geared trannys now. They cost less than the HST, and don't have that HST "whine" which bothers some people.

Well, that's enough to think about now. Enjoy the search. It took my wife and I a few months of weekend visits to different brands to get our most recent tractor.
We worked hard to make it a fun outing and it became something to look forward to doing.
rScotty

 

[Kioti Dave]

Here is my 2 cents. Had a Kubota B7800 for 15 years. Great little tractor. Ran all 5' implements easily. Went the Kioti route last year for my new tractor. Big factor was the dual pedals for the HST and a cab. May seem like a little thing, but was way more comfortable to operate for extended periods. Make sure you try them all, and take your time. Like you said, you may know right away if it won't work for you. As well, try both HST and gear. Have fun in the hunt.