2022 Outlander Max 6x6

[Rustyiron]

I could see where any manufacturer might decide not to beef up or redesign the front drive only for 1 model.
That monster machine is about as far as possible from a regular "ATV's" intended worse case design loading but probably running the same differential and axles as the 4 wheel 4 wheeler.
I hope that's not the case, but running the widened plow, the added weight of the plow multiplying the tracks traction, there's very little similarities with this hard working setup and a 4 wheeler playing in the mud.
Good luck Arly, I'd love to see that machine in person on the trail!
My comment is pure speculation that it's the same from drivetrain as the rest of their 4 wheeler lineup. I'm just saying I can see it being so for the company accountants.

 

[jjeff]

That 1st video was enlightening.
82 hp driving those front pods and big plow, big snow, with that small splined shaft, phew!

It seems to be nearly “shear pin”

It would seem that front tires or ski/skid setup maybe better?

The videos showed failures on older can am ATVs without pods and not doing anything to substantial. Therefore imo I think it's a bad design that hasn't been fixed by brp. However, having owned, broken, and fixed my cvt belt driven drive lines on ATVs and long track snowmobiles I can imagine the stresses and heat being put on the op drivetrain of a tracked 6x6 ATV are pretty substantial. A failure with 10 hrs on a new high dollar ATV bought and used to maintain public trails would sicken me anyway, and I feel for the OP.

 

[ArlyA]

I could see where any manufacturer might decide not to beef up or redesign the front drive only for 1 model.
That monster machine is about as far as possible from a regular "ATV's" intended worse case design loading but probably running the same differential and axles as the 4 wheel 4 wheeler.
I hope that's not the case, but running the widened plow, the added weight of the plow multiplying the tracks traction, there's very little similarities with this hard working setup and a 4 wheeler playing in the mud.
Good luck Arly, I'd love to see that machine in person on the trail!
My comment is pure speculation that it's the same from drivetrain as the rest of their 4 wheeler lineup. I'm just saying I can see it being so for the company accountants.

Pulling implements really takes HP but plowing is actually untaxing to the engine. Go figure. I'd say the drive shaft to the front is under-built.....

 

[airbiscuit]

How is plowing untaxing to the engine and drive components? If that were the case plow trucks should have no transmission or drive train issues.

 

[ArlyA]

How is plowing untaxing to the engine and drive components? If that were the case plow trucks should have no transmission or drive train issues.

I do not own a plow truck so I can not comment on those. I have operated many UTV and atv machines with plows and towed implements with them as well.

 

[airbiscuit]

I still see don't how a plow untaxes a UTV or ATV engine. It seems to me that it is adding force the engine and drive train needs to overcome, not to mention the occasional shock load.

 

[plastikosmd]

It is absolutely more “taxing”
Weight, force through drive components, rapid acceleration under load, sudden stop/ shock/ impact that propagates through everything

We all have plowed or towed

It is more taxing/more wear and tear

 

[ArlyA]

People who don't use there atv's or utv's for towing snow implements, sure spent a lot of time tell people who do, how it works.

 

[plastikosmd]

I think most of us here use them for towing/plowing

I only stated that I disagree with your repeated opinion that towing (is) but plowing (is not) hard on a machine.


“Plow is not at all hard like towing implements is. Done both jobs, lots.”

“Pulling implements really takes HP but plowing is actually untaxing to the engine.”

They both are more work for the machine and things break. Not a good thing or bad, it just is what it is and repairs are part of the territory.

I was thinking of your repair last night and wonder if reworking the drive line to twin u-joints with sliding shaft would be better (just like a mini pto shaft)

I’m just not sure how those splined cups are held into respective places in driveline.

Anything has to be better than 1” or less of teeth to drive those pods

 

[ArlyA]

I think most of us here use them for towing/plowing

I only stated that I disagree with your repeated opinion that towing or plowing are not hard on a machine.


“Pulling implements really takes HP but plowing is actually untaxing to the engine.”

They are and things break. Not a good thing or bad, it just is what it is and repairs are part of the territory

While plowing the throttle is at 1/4 or less. Kinda low. While towing some implement and in deep, fresh snow I can hold the throttle at 100% and leave it there. But plowing takes more?

 

[airbiscuit]

We're not being critical of your machine. We're just trying to understand how plowing is actually untaxing to the engine. If that were the case, race cars would have plows on the front

 

[plastikosmd]

You can’t just judge machine stress on throttle input

My 557 cubic inch ford makes max torque at like 1400rpm
(and that has broken 3 transmissions and 2 rearends)
An electric motor makes 100% at zero rpm

 

[ArlyA]

The two jobs of using atv's and utv's for plowing the towing implements are not theoretical to me. I practice excaclty that.

 

[plastikosmd]

Awesome!
GL

 

[jjeff]

Hmm this has gotten more interesting. I've blown out a transfer case on a old Ford f150 a long time ago plowing. However rarely damaged drivetrains on any of my Yamaha ATVs plowing in almost 20yrs. I believe imo when plowing or towing I make sure it's in low gear if it has it and it's probably helped minimize stress on certain drivetrain and engine components, anyways I've also smoked countless belts and damaged associated components on older snowmobiles towing sleds through deeper snow. Back to ops topic Im curious why one of the fixes mentioned in videos is to buy a thicker less flexible rubber boot to mate the shaft and differential, I assume it's to better help keep the splines mated together when the shaft moves in and out due to suspension articulation?
For me due to these informative posts I'll be leary to buy can am ATVs and more leary than before to buy and run pods on atvs. Which Ive never owned or operated one with either.

 

[Hoss710]

after seeing how the splines are worn . It looks like bad heat treatment to me . those splines shouldn't wear like that at all. If anything I could see it break if it were a issue of strength. but it isn't, they are worn away due to being to soft. just my 2 cents.

 

[Rustyiron]

HP & torque will either make you go, or with enough resistance find something to break. I think Arly found the weak link and hopefully it was just a bad part not a design issue.
The tracks or pods actually increase the mechanical advantage reducing the final drive ratio the difference between the circumference of the factory tire size to the size of the *drive sprocket on the pods. This imitating a super low "gear" that the shaft just may not be up to. At 10 hours it's reasonable to think it's a bad part.
* the drive sprockets are closer to the size (diameter) of the wheel alone.

 

[ruffdog]

I think a shaft with u-joints on each end would have been sturdier than the small spline set-up.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

While plowing the throttle is at 1/4 or less. Kinda low. While towing some implement and in deep, fresh snow I can hold the throttle at 100% and leave it there. But plowing takes more?

Apples and oranges!

What if you are pulling a load on a nice hardpacked groomed trail on the level? That would be = to plowing in good conditions like you are trying to compare to.

Unless you have some magic machine that knows the difference between pulling and pushing, an equal load on the front or back of it, will put the same load on the driveline.

SR

 

[Snobdds]

BRP needs to talk to Toyota on how to heat treat metal. That is just bad manufacturing.

Plowing is hard on a machine. Whenever you stop a moving machine because you physically can't move forward anymore...it's hard on it.