#2 Heating Oil

[chim]

Underground LP tanks are a common offering here in PA. LPG doesn't harm soil or water if there's a leak. I haven't compared the heated air at the registers with that of an oil-fired furnace, but it feels warm. I've been in places with heat pumps and that air felt cooler. Since we were married in 1970, we've always had either natural or LP gas heat.

 

[Shady oak]

Underground LP tanks are a common offering here in PA. LPG doesn't harm soil or water if there's a leak. I haven't compared the heated air at the registers with that of an oil-fired furnace, but it feels warm. I've been in places with heat pumps and that air felt cooler. Since we were married in 1970, we've always had either natural or LP gas heat.

Interesting. I can’t remember seeing an underground propane tank in MN? But I am sure it’s possible. When we bought this house the guy who built it had buried a 500 gal above ground liquid farm tank wrapped in black plastic. It was down there for 12 years. Totally illegal. Fill, vent, and pump inside the garage, tank partially under the garage footings, stoop and floor. Great fun to dig out by hand!

I use propane. Had a chance to go natural gas and passed. Last two years my contract was $1.65 per gal. Not sure about other places but around here contracts are only good til the next spring. You can’t buy out any further than that. While the contract calls for a penalty for the unused gals, I have never had them enforce it yet.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Additives year round are a waste of money. Buy me breakfast instead. LOL

But then ...

I always add Sea Foam to my mix.

So what is your reasoning for no additives in #2, but in gasoline?

--------------------------------

Underground (ug) propane tanks have two "benefits" ...

Less of an eyesore

They vaporize the liquid better in extreme cold, as the ground keeps them warmer than the air.

I've seen multiple 1000 gallon above ground (ag) tanks tied together, all frozen up, and my customers was not getting any fuel, even though tanks were over 60% full, 80% is considered "full" on ag tanks, 89% on ug tanks, as there is less chance of the liquid expansion as the cold fuel is insulated by the ground, and doesn't experience the temperature swings of an ag tank

 

[Shady oak]

But then ...


So what is your reasoning for no additives in #2, but in gasoline?

--------------------------------

Underground (ug) propane tanks have two "benefits" ...

Less of an eyesore

They vaporize the liquid better in extreme cold, as the ground keeps them warmer than the air.

I've seen multiple 1000 gallon above ground (ag) tanks tied together, all frozen up, and my customers was not getting any fuel, even though tanks were over 60% full, 80% is considered "full" on ag tanks, 89% on ug tanks, as there is less chance of the liquid expansion as the cold fuel is insulated by the ground, and doesn't experience the temperature swings of an ag tank

I knew after I sent that, that the eagle eyed readers of TBN would catch the disparity therein.

I should have been more specific. The reason I use Sea Foam in my premium 2 cycle blend is that these style engines seem to have a much higher percentage of carb problems than I have experienced in 4 cycle engines. Plus in my particular case this blend tends to sit longer than my diesel or plain NL. I never use additives in regular NL. BTW, I abhor ethanol, despite having a farm backround.

I did have trips to the repair shop prior to my friend recommending Sea Foam in that mix. My 20 year absence from those businesses has convinced me that in this particular case it works. In my over 55 years of owning and operating many different types of internal combustion engines I can’t say that’s the case for other fuels.

Now about that breakfast? ️

 

[Shawn T. W.]

I have one of those "modern" 4 stoke trimmers that use mixed gas, I occasionally add a bit of seafoam to the 100% gas too.

But I'm also happy to add some extra centane and lubricant to the #2, since "they don't make it like they use too" anymore, no biodiesel either for me ... Corn and soybeans are food, not fuel!

BTW, the diesel fuel #2 additives I add don't cost me a cent, I get them for free at the truck stops! My trucking company pays for the fuel, the truck stops give me 1-7 "points" per gallon, which equals a penny, they add up over time, I pump over 1500 gallons a month, I cash in the points for stuff in the truck stop store ...

 

[pwhite42]

A few months ago a friend changed over his heating system and deleted his oil furnace. He had almost 200 gallons of #2 fuel oil left in his tank and the oil company said they would not pump it out. He offered me the fuel to burn in my tractor but I told him it was not worth the risk of engine problems for me. It seems someone else took him up on the offer and in burning this oil in some of their equipment.

It seems to me between the age of the oil and the probability of contaminants using this oil is asking for problems. Anyone have experience with this?

I used thr oil from my tank when I switched. I bought a good diesel filter/funnel to clean it. When I got low in the tank I only used that oil to start a fire in my wood boiler.

 

[WinterDeere]

Underground LP tanks are a common offering here in PA. LPG doesn't harm soil or water if there's a leak. I haven't compared the heated air at the registers with that of an oil-fired furnace, but it feels warm. I've been in places with heat pumps and that air felt cooler. Since we were married in 1970, we've always had either natural or LP gas heat.

Yes, I have a buried LP tank in my own back yard, used for a gas stove and garage heating. I thought you were talking about a buried oil tank, though.

When I say we had a 1500 gallon buried tank, I was talking about an oil tank buried there in 1953! As far as I know, the current owner of that house is probably still operating off of it, today.

 

[howardjohn]

I have run it in my older machines from the 1980's without a problem. I ran it in my 2001 jd skid steer and I had problems with the fuel system, loss of power. So mostly I stick to regular diesel even if it costs more. I have less fuel system and maintenance

 

[Paystar]

Same fuel. I have a 400 gallon tank that feeds my furnace and fuels my tractors.
Only difference, at least up here in Canada is if you buy that fuel before Sept/Oct it is summer fuel, after that they put winter additives in it. I just put some Howes in my tank and have never had a problem.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Slightly off topic but an interesting story which, in the end, relates to the OP's post.

When I first bought my property, I lived in a mobile home temporarily while I built the house. The trailer had propane heat which was clean & quiet and I planned to use it in the house as well. That was until I came home from work one day and opened the door. I was immediately hit with the strong odor of gas! The delivery person accidentally knocked over one of the outside 100# tanks. That pulled the copper fitting off the stove inside which caused the trailer to fill with gas! Had I struck a spark when I opened the door, I wouldn't be typing this now!

That scare caused me to switch to oil heat for the house and I buried a 1000 gal tank in the back yard. I thought that was the smart thing to do until a coworker bought an older house with a buried tank. An inspection revealed the tank had been leaking for several years. In the end, it cost him almost $40K for the environmental remediation! Most of his back yard had to be dug up and the contaminated soil trucked to an out of state landfill!

That caused me to rethink my plan again. I installed two 500 gal fuel oil tanks in an unused section of the basement and transferred the #2 fuel oil from the buried tank. I then dug up the old tank, cut it up and disposed of it.

Now, 40 years later, I'm still happy with my fuel oil choice since I've been using it to fuel my diesel tractors, without issue, for all that time.

 

[Skypuppy]

FWIW, I ran my own tests, using generators as my test object. A diesel gennie burned about 2 1/2 gallons per hour at load (6.5 kw), gas gennie burned 4.something, while the propane burned more than 7 gph!

 

[Shady oak]

It’s generally all about the BTU’s. Years ago propane farm tractors were available. But if for example you bought a 70 JD LP it would have maybe 8 less HP than the gas version. If you had the rare 70 diesel, that had more power than either the gas or the LP.

Same with running #2, a fuel blend, or #1. The HP, and in the instance of road vehicles the mileage, decreases with the increase in the ratio of the #1 fuel. Noticeably!

 

[LouNY]

Many of the factory Propane tractors had higher compression ratios, usually by piston design to get close to the gas HP.
They were nice running tractors but a bit thirsty and you needed a nurse tank and a thief hose to refill, on a long day at lunch time.

I ran a propane powered Ford F250 with a 390 for many miles. It was a good running pickup with abound a 80 or 90 gallon cross bed tank. With propane under a quarter a gallon it was nice except for the annual fuel tax permit.

 

[WinterDeere]

This is what you need:

 

[Paystar]

Scary part now with oil heat is the area I live in, there is now only ONE licensed oil technician that can work on oil stoves. And the company he works for told me they pay $40,000 just to insure him.
They said oil heat will probably be obsolete in 5 more years.

I just had them over to my house to give me a quote on a new furnace. I have no natural gas in my area so I was going to switch to electric forced air furnace.
I know a guy that has had one the last couple years and he's one of those guys that tracks his expenses with spread sheets. He said it is absolutely cheaper than an oil furnace right now.
But my dealer talked me out of it. They said yes it is cheaper to run right now, but next year the government subsidies to the hydro companies come off and they said guess what is going to happen to the electric rates around here.
They tried talking me into propane.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Home heating economy can vary widely with location. Comparing fuel prices gets frustrating because of how rapidly they change. A home heating system is a long term investment and you need to look at fuel prices over the last decade or so before making a choice. Having a second source of heat can save money in the long run by allowing you to use the cheapest fuel at any point in time.

When I built my house in the late 1970's, coal was the cheapest per BTU since I'm located in the Anthracite coal region of PA. I burned it for 30 years with an oil furnace as backup. Over the years, the price of coal creped up. Last year, it got to the point where the savings over oil weren't worth the effort required to maintain the stove and I switched to oil.

Earlier this year, the 45 year old oil burner needed replacement and I again had to decide on which fuel to choose. I considered propane since it burns cleaner with less maintenance. Propane and fuel oil are very close in price per BTU right now, but I ultimately decided to stick with oil, since I also use it to fuel my tractors.

Up until recently, electricity rates here have been quite low. My AC system also needed replacement so I installed a ductless unit that also provides heat. For a time, the efficient heat pump system actually made electricity the cheapest source of heat. That all came to an abrupt end though since the electric rates have almost doubled in the last 6 months.
So now, it's back to oil again with electric and the old coal stove as backup.

This is just my story, but an example of how things change over time. YMMV.

 

[Skypuppy]

Home heating economy can vary widely with location. Comparing fuel prices gets frustrating because of how rapidly they change. A home heating system is a long term investment and you need to look at fuel prices over the last decade or so before making a choice. Having a second source of heat can save money in the long run by allowing you to use the cheapest fuel at any point in time.

When I built my house in the late 1970's, coal was the cheapest per BTU since I'm located in the Anthracite coal region of PA. I burned it for 30 years with an oil furnace as backup. Over the years, the price of coal creped up. Last year, it got to the point where the savings over oil weren't worth the effort required to maintain the stove and I switched to oil.

Earlier this year, the 45 year old oil burner needed replacement and I again had to decide on which fuel to choose. I considered propane since it burns cleaner with less maintenance. Propane and fuel oil are very close in price per BTU right now, but I ultimately decided to stick with oil, since I also use it to fuel my tractors.

Up until recently, electricity rates here have been quite low. My AC system also needed replacement so I installed a ductless unit that also provides heat. For a time, the efficient heat pump system actually made electricity the cheapest source of heat. That all came to an abrupt end though since the electric rates have almost doubled in the last 6 months.
So now, it's back to oil again with electric and the old coal stove as backup.

This is just my story, but an example of how things change over time. YMMV.

DOUBLED??? WOW!

 

[bdhsfz6]

DOUBLED??? WOW!

Yeah, it was 7.1c / KWH last March and the latest bill is .12.9c. Not quite double but close.

Data centers are going up left and right in this part of the state and it's driving up the price.

 

[Paystar]

Yeah, it was 7.1c / KWH last March and the latest bill is .12.9c. Not quite double but close.

Data centers are going up left and right in this part of the state and it's driving up the price.

And our local steel mill is just making the switch to electric blast furnaces, so I can see what that is going to do to our prices along with all the brown outs when the grid can't handle all the demand.