5240 3-pt Ballast Recommendations

[warrior_garden]

New member here, I've read many of the threads discussing 3-point ballast and believe I have a good idea of how much it should weigh, but I'd like recommendations. I'm planning to build my own box using a plywood form. Ideally I would be able to add or remove weight depending on the weight in the FEL, but that isn't in the cards right now.

The tractor is a L5240 HSTC with 854 loader, R4 tires loaded with Rimguard. I'll be using the factory bucket or EA Wicked grapple. The LA854 loader weighs 1,300lbs, the bucket weighs 300lbs. Estimated total weight of everything is around 7k lbs. My primary "concern" is moving logs over fairly hilly terrain.

My plan to construct a very low and wide ballast box, and I'd like to keep the weigh fairly close-in to the rear axle to reduce the chance of swinging weight. I'm shooting for around 1,300 lbs. Thoughts?

 

[dodge man]

John Deere seems to recommend ballast roughly to what your loader lift specs are. In your case I looked it up and saw about 1850 pounds so you might be a little light. I know I’m a little light with my ballast box also but hate to go much heavier. I think your plan is pretty good.

 

[hayden]

I have a 5740 with the same loader, so a virtually identical machine. My rear tires are also loaded with rim guard. I found the loader to still be pretty squirrelly with a heavy load on anything other than flat ground, so I agree that adding more weight is a good thing. I ended up installing the Kubota wheel weights and it made a huge difference. The tractor is much more stable now doing loader work, and I’m much more comfortable operating it on uneven terrain. You obviously need to remain vigilant, but it’s a huge improvement. Unfortunately I don’t know off hand how many weights I added and what the total weight is, but I can probably track it down.

A 3PH weight will counterbalance and pull some weight off the front axle which is probably good. I didn’t go with a 3PH weight because I didn’t want the extra length, and didn’t want to have to hook up and remove a weight. But that might not matter to you.

A related issue is the front tire weight rating if you have Ag tires. From what I can tell, a full loader will overload the stock from R1 tires pretty significantly. I ended up switching from 6 ply to 8 ply fronts which can carry the load and made a huge different. I don’t think this is a problem with R4 tires.

 

[warrior_garden]

Thanks for the response. I may add wheel weights eventually as I plan on getting an offset flail mower this summer. I haven't run into any issues with the rear end lifting yet, but it does not do well in snow (or on wet grassy slopes for that matter). I've gotten stuck in both. The R4's do not impress in regards to traction either.

I haven't checked how many ply my R4's have, but they are STIFF. The Rimguard and my cheap gauges have prevented me from getting a very accurate reading, but I seem to be at about 6psi. Virtually NO compression front or rear no matter what I pick up.

 

[ning]

Thanks for the response. I may add wheel weights eventually as I plan on getting an offset flail mower this summer. I haven't run into any issues with the rear end lifting yet, but it does not do well in snow (or on wet grassy slopes for that matter). I've gotten stuck in both. The R4's do not impress in regards to traction either.

I haven't checked how many ply my R4's have, but they are STIFF. The Rimguard and my cheap gauges have prevented me from getting a very accurate reading, but I seem to be at about 6psi. Virtually NO compression front or rear no matter what I pick up.

I don't have a 5240 or 5760 or whatever, but I'll seconds the "R4's are STIFF".

Make sure you check the air pressure often (pre-flight ideally) because you may not notice that the pressure has been lost until you make a turn with a heavy load! (Happened to me - the tire was obviously too low of pressure; bead got pushed in by a rock, ended up completely deflated requiring ratchet strap action to re-seat the bead - or explosive gasses but I went with the strap haha)

 

[JWR]

We don't know the overall picture of your "row to hoe." What all you need to do, where, how often, how much switching tools, priorities, etc. The only clue seems to be your intent to "move logs on hilly terrain." Where ever you are it is not more hilly than mine in W.Va. so I can sympathize a lot. I'll go ahead and rattle off several comments in case one might be helpful. The grapple market is very lively with many sources. I think you probably are paying too much for it. I use a little bigger tractor (81 hp MF 2660) quite a bit heavier than your Kubota. I found that wide grapple width is not desirable. My 66" (Wildkat model) is plenty wide, more maneuverable than wider units, and handles everything my tractor dishes out. Seems near indestructible yet called 'medium duty' among their products. Heavy as hell. I've moved some humongous trees that the loader could not lift off the ground. Trying to literally move trees on steep ground is extremely hazardous with any tractor. Keep 'em low !! Balance left/right is a constant cut-and-try if you are on sloped terrain. Sure I have tipped a wheel off the ground a few times but I always look ahead and anticipate the circumstance as much as possible. Nothing that puckered me. For ballast (I've commented on many of these threads) I keep a 1460 lb 7ft Bush Hog on the back. The cg of that hog is much further back than the typical weight box and I always seem to have reason to go back and forth cutting brush and moving trees and debris. Cleaning up old pasture fields involves both. Year round. You might consider a heavy flail mower for ballast too. They do not hang back as far as a hog but do not take up as much space, if space is an issue for you. You will find that FEL loading varies so much when moving trees, just tree trunks, big limbs, debris of all sorts, etc. that is neither possible nor necessary to fine tune the ballast. Just "keep your work between the fences" so to speak and you'll be fine.

 

[dodge man]

Keep in mind Rimguard and wheel weights do nothing to counterbalance the end loader and don’t take weight off the front axle. They do add to tractor stability though.

 

[Seven Gables]

Very good thinking to add a rear ballast even with loaded tires. 1300lbs is enough to help a lot but If I was making it I’d up it some into the 15-1700lb range. I have about 1700lb counterweight that I use between 4 tractors, smallest is a 5055e and it’s about perfect for that one. Also use on 5085e and 5115m works great on those too, however it wouldn’t hurt to have a little more on those in extreme heavy lifting and hills. I made a platform dolly that’s about a foot tall to set it on , makes for very easy hookup and storage.

 

[JWR]

Keep in mind Rimguard and wheel weights do nothing to counterbalance the end loader and don’t take weight off the front axle. They do add to tractor stability though.

Dave I have to disagree a little. You are 100% right that nothing done at or forward of the rear axle will take weight off the front axle. However, any weight , no matter what it is, aft of the front axle will counterbalance the FEL with the front axle being the pivot.

 

[ning]

Dave I have to disagree a little. You are 100% right that nothing done at or forward of the rear axle will take weight off the front axle. However, any weight , no matter what it is, aft of the front axle will counterbalance the FEL with the front axle being the pivot.

I suppose "counterbalance the end loader" just means "make it so that the tractor doesn't tip forward when bucket goes up", and that's correct that any weight behind the front axle helps in this regard - the farther behind the front axle the better, of course.

There are many threads about this, but I seem to recall that wheel & tire weight, while adding to stability, just makes it so you're more and more stable as you load up that front axle.

If you have a long enough lever with a suitable fulcrum [the crux of the problem of course], you can move the entire Earth... but you're going to be putting the weight of the Earth as well as the force pushing down on the lever, onto that fulcrum. Unless you're using the other fulcrum (the rear axle), you're not going to take any weight off of the front.

In some ways for loader work it seems like wheel & tire weight gives one a false sense of security - you may feel more stable but you're more likely to break that front axle; if you don't have those extra weights, you can't load up the front axle without tipping the tractor, so you're forced to use a counterweight behind the tractor.

 

[ptsg]

If anyone wants to nerd out a bit on calculating counter weight. Here it is:

Attachments

• 
  1771442265346.png

  257.8 KB · Views: 110

 

[sd455dan]

Keep in mind Rimguard and wheel weights do nothing to counterbalance the end loader and don’t take weight off the front axle. They do add to tractor stability though.

?? Wheel weights and rim guard do help keep the rear axle on the ground when carrying heavy FEL loads.
They do not un-weight the front axle though. Oops cross posted with other members that beat me to it.

 

[warrior_garden]

Keep in mind Rimguard and wheel weights do nothing to counterbalance the end loader and don’t take weight off the front axle. They do add to tractor stability though.

I understand the concepts. And I have seen the Kubota L's with mysteriously worn out front tires or leaking axle seals and/or bad bearings. Messicks has done the best video explaining it, but even pressing down on a the front and back of a Hotwheels gets the point across.

I appreciate all the input, and those of you with specific ideas of how much weight to add are especially helpful. I am erring toward keeping it on the lighter-side, as I'll be able to add weight on top (I have a few huge chains laying around) but will not be able to remove weight from the concrete form.

I'll get wheel weights if/when I get a flail to help with stability, but they aren't a factor in this scenario where I'm essentially trying to get pressure off the front axle (with the added benefit of increasing traction).

 

[warrior_garden]

We don't know the overall picture of your "row to hoe." What all you need to do, where, how often, how much switching tools, priorities, etc. The only clue seems to be your intent to "move logs on hilly terrain." Where ever you are it is not more hilly than mine in W.Va. so I can sympathize a lot. I'll go ahead and rattle off several comments in case one might be helpful. The grapple market is very lively with many sources. I think you probably are paying too much for it. I use a little bigger tractor (81 hp MF 2660) quite a bit heavier than your Kubota. I found that wide grapple width is not desirable. My 66" (Wildkat model) is plenty wide, more maneuverable than wider units, and handles everything my tractor dishes out. Seems near indestructible yet called 'medium duty' among their products. Heavy as hell. I've moved some humongous trees that the loader could not lift off the ground. Trying to literally move trees on steep ground is extremely hazardous with any tractor. Keep 'em low !! Balance left/right is a constant cut-and-try if you are on sloped terrain. Sure I have tipped a wheel off the ground a few times but I always look ahead and anticipate the circumstance as much as possible. Nothing that puckered me. For ballast (I've commented on many of these threads) I keep a 1460 lb 7ft Bush Hog on the back. The cg of that hog is much further back than the typical weight box and I always seem to have reason to go back and forth cutting brush and moving trees and debris. Cleaning up old pasture fields involves both. Year round. You might consider a heavy flail mower for ballast too. They do not hang back as far as a hog but do not take up as much space, if space is an issue for you. You will find that FEL loading varies so much when moving trees, just tree trunks, big limbs, debris of all sorts, etc. that is neither possible nor necessary to fine tune the ballast. Just "keep your work between the fences" so to speak and you'll be fine.

I already own the grapple. I intentionally got the smaller EA 55" wicked grapple (239lbs!). My tractor could easily handle the 60" grapple (400lbs), but I didn't want the weight or larger size.

I've seen the videos of the smaller 55" grapple on a L6060 taking abuse that is nothing near what I will do to mine. Plus EA's customer service was great. I'm very happy with my choice. Wish I had a better photo. Not that its a particularly amazing feat, but it got a hold of that particular 500lb log with ease.

 

[dodge man]

Tractor Time With Tim did a YouTube where they tested out Rimguard in the rear wheels. They had a scale set up on the front axle and the rear axle. They loaded the front bucket to where the weight on the back axle was very low. Then they added Rimguard and didn’t take any weight off the front axle. Then they added three point ballast which did take weight off the front axle.

It’s kind of hard to visualize but wheel weights and/or Rimguard don’t help until the rear tires start to come off the ground. Rimguard and wheel weights are a good thing, it just doesn’t help the front axle any.

 

[warrior_garden]

Very good thinking to add a rear ballast even with loaded tires. 1300lbs is enough to help a lot but If I was making it I’d up it some into the 15-1700lb range. I have about 1700lb counterweight that I use between 4 tractors, smallest is a 5055e and it’s about perfect for that one. Also use on 5085e and 5115m works great on those too, however it wouldn’t hurt to have a little more on those in extreme heavy lifting and hills. I made a platform dolly that’s about a foot tall to set it on , makes for very easy hookup and storage.

What's your tractor weight/HP/FEL weight and capacity? I know nothing about JD! That seems like a lot of weight.

 

[Seven Gables]

What's your tractor weight/HP/FEL weight and capacity? I know nothing about JD! That seems like a lot of weight.

That 5085e i was moving downed maple with , bare tractor and loader 9500lbs + loaded tires ~1400 + four wheel weights ~400 , so ballpark 11300lbs , then add about 1700 counter weight for about 13000 total. It’s very well planted and stable. Loader and bucket is about 2300 of total, 85 engine hp. Lift capacity at pins to full height about 3600lbs . At lower lift heights quite a bit more.
The little 5055e is bare tractor and loader about 7500 , 2000lbs is loader and bucket. Add the counterweight for about 9200lbs total. If I eventually load the rear tires be little over 10000. Heavy for a lil 55hp tractor. Lift capacity at pins full height around 3500lbs .

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Tractor Time With Tim did a YouTube where they tested out Rimguard in the rear wheels. They had a scale set up on the front axle and the rear axle. They loaded the front bucket to where the weight on the back axle was very low. Then they added Rimguard and didn’t take any weight off the front axle. Then they added three point ballast which did take weight off the front axle.

It’s kind of hard to visualize but wheel weights and/or Rimguard don’t help until the rear tires start to come off the ground. Rimguard and wheel weights are a good thing, it just doesn’t help the front axle any.

Yup, here it is ...

And another from a different guy ...

Wheel/tire weight can help you with traction, but you need weight past the far end of the the tractor to take weight off the other ends axle, quite often we see this with front end loaders (FEL's) needing weight behind the rear axle, but if you don't have a loader, and either have a lot of weight, or pulling something heavy in the ground, you will need to add weight in front of the front axle, my 8' long brush hog is a tad big for my little tractor, and inorder to mow my creek banks I need a bucket of dirt/rocks to hold the front end down, normal mowing half a bucket keeps me steering!

I've read of people using a carry all, or rear 3 point forks to carry different amounts of weight ... Make up a bunch of 300-500 Lb weights with a way to lift them on to whatever you gonna use ...

I built my own, my quick attach fits into the recessed area to grab the lower pins, this keeps the weight close to the rear axle, and doesn't have the long tail like the bottom of my backhoe does which can bottom out or drag in steep uneven terrain ... Once the concrete was set/dry, I knocked out the 2X's at the purple X's

This was my rough drawing ... And guestimate, actually came out at 707 Lbs.

 

[warrior_garden]

Those videos are almost scary. Its crazy how quickly tractors can become front heavy to the point that the slightest imbalance could tip them over... And yet some people still don't believe they need a 3 point hitch counterweight.

 

[ning]

Yup, here it is ...

And another from a different guy ...

Wheel/tire weight can help you with traction, but you need weight past the far end of the the tractor to take weight off the other ends axle, quite often we see this with front end loaders (FEL's) needing weight behind the rear axle, but if you don't have a loader, and either have a lot of weight, or pulling something heavy in the ground, you will need to add weight in front of the front axle, my 8' long brush hog is a tad big for my little tractor, and inorder to mow my creek banks I need a bucket of dirt/rocks to hold the front end down, normal mowing half a bucket keeps me steering!

View attachment 5231214

I've read of people using a carry all, or rear 3 point forks to carry different amounts of weight ... Make up a bunch of 300-500 Lb weights with a way to lift them on to whatever you gonna use ...

I built my own, my quick attach fits into the recessed area to grab the lower pins, this keeps the weight close to the rear axle, and doesn't have the long tail like the bottom of my backhoe does which can bottom out or drag in steep uneven terrain ... Once the concrete was set/dry, I knocked out the 2X's at the purple X's

View attachment 5231203

This was my rough drawing ... And guestimate, actually came out at 707 Lbs.

View attachment 5231206

View attachment 5231209

View attachment 5231210

View attachment 5231211

Interesting recessing the 3ph pins. Of course, the same weight 2x the distance from the rear axle has twice the counterbalancing effect.

It would be interesting to design a similar setup which allowed a flexible attachment, closer in for less weight on front giving more maneuverability, farther back when you have a bigger load.