Well House Load Center??

[dieselscout80]

Our well is about 170’ from our house circuit breaker box. The 220v submersible well pump is about 150’ down. The line to the well is 12/2 wire, so I ran a new wire to the well 6/3 wire.

I want to put a load center with at least 3 breakers in it (pump, outlet and a light).

The well has PVC casing so that is not an option for grounding.

Should I put a ground rod at the well? The current system doesn’t have a ground at the well just at the house panel.

 

[ponytug]

How many HP is your pump?

I'm not a trained or licensed electrician.

FWIW:
IIRC: Detached buildings are supposed to have an independent ground under many versions of the code. Personally, I think it would be prudent to drive a ground rod and put in a ground.

The outlet probably needs a GFCI outlet or breaker, and in many jurisdictions, you need a certain amount of space away from the well for the panel. (Damp/wet location rules?) While not required in many instances, I would use a "rain tight" NEMA R3 outdoor rated panel, as in my experience the unexpected happens in well houses and that often involves spraying water.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Roadworthy]

Two eight foot ground rods at least six feet apart. Run #6 solid wire from the ground rods to the panel. You may need to add a grounding lug strip and connect grounds to that. Do not connect the grounds to the neutral bus - not even the ground wire from the house. If fed from the house panel the proper breaker size is fifty amps though less is fine.

 

[dstig1]

The increased wire size is due to voltage drop, so the breaker should remain the same. And yes add the ground rods. You are creating a subpanel, so follow all those rules.

 

[dieselscout80]

How many HP is your pump?

I'm not a trained or licensed electrician.

FWIW:
IIRC: Detached buildings are supposed to have an independent ground under many versions of the code. Personally, I think it would be prudent to drive a ground rod and put in a ground.

The outlet probably needs a GFCI outlet or breaker, and in many jurisdictions, you need a certain amount of space away from the well for the panel. (Damp/wet location rules?) While not required in many instances, I would use a "rain tight" NEMA R3 outdoor rated panel, as in my experience the unexpected happens in well houses and that often involves spraying water.

All the best,

Peter

I have no idea what size the pump is but it is fed by a 30 amp breaker. It was in place when we bought back in 2009.

I will add a ground rod when I do the install.

 

[dieselscout80]

Two eight foot ground rods at least six feet apart. Run #6 solid wire from the ground rods to the panel. You may need to add a grounding lug strip and connect grounds to that. Do not connect the grounds to the neutral bus - not even the ground wire from the house. If fed from the house panel the proper breaker size is fifty amps though less is fine.

I’ve got a couple questions.

I’ve never seen 6 gauge solid wire, so where do you get it?

Why two 8’ ground rods vs one? Also most ground rods are much shorter than 8’.

 

[Topzide]

You only need one 8 foot ground rod and can use #8 solid ground wire. All the ground rods that I've ever brought were 8 foot.

 

[4570Man]

I’ve got a couple questions.

I’ve never seen 6 gauge solid wire, so where do you get it?

Why two 8’ ground rods vs one? Also most ground rods are much shorter than 8’.

Every ground rod I’ve ever purchased was 8ft. Code requires 2 ground rods placed at least 6 ft apart. Every electric supply house will have bare 6 gauge ground wire although 8 gauge passes code for panels less than 100 amps.

 

[not2old]

When I was doing the foundation for my shop I called the electrical inspector and told him I'm not doing the service right now but wanted to know if it was OK to enclose the ground rod in the concrete foundation. He told me that if I was running a circuit from the house that a ground rod should not be used. Last week I hired an electrician to hook up a 125A 250V sub panel in the shop where I'm planning on doing the rest myself. The work was properly permitted by the electrician and there is no ground rod. Electrical installations here in B.C. are permitted and inspected by the province.

 

[ponytug]

I’ve got a couple questions.

I’ve never seen 6 gauge solid wire, so where do you get it?

Why two 8’ ground rods vs one? Also most ground rods are much shorter than 8’.

Around here, all the big box stores carry 6ga, often locked up.

Newer versions of code ask for two 8' rods, with a continuous ground wire. The alternative is to drive one rod, and have it tested for efficacy, which is a bit of song and dance. Most installers prefer two ground rods and be done with it. I think of it as an attempt to reduce single point failures and improve the effectiveness of the grounding systems.

All the best,

Peter

 

[bdhsfz6]

When I bought an adjacent piece of property and tore down a derelict house, I moved the meter to a power pedestal, rather than pulling it out completely. That way, I can run electric services to the well and out buildings without having separate meters installed.

When I constructed the power pedestal. the inspector required two 8' ground rods with #4 copper wire.

When I tore down the house, I pulled out 160' of 3/0 3 conductor copper service entrance cable from a conduit thinking I could reuse it. The inspector said it would be against code to do this?? Does that sound right? It's in good condition and about 25 years old. The insulation is perfect and you can still see the lubricant that was used to pull it in.

It weighs just under 350# and I can only get around $425 for it at the scrap yard. That much new wire would cost over $3K. I haven't used it yet and am thinking of selling it. Won't be much of a market though if it's against the code to use.

 

[ponytug]

When I bought an adjacent piece of property and tore down a derelict house, I moved the meter to a power pedestal, rather than pulling it out completely. That way, I can run electric services to the well and out buildings without having separate meters installed.

When I constructed the power pedestal. the inspector required two 8' ground rods with #4 copper wire.

When I tore down the house, I pulled out 160' of 3/0 3 conductor copper service entrance cable from a conduit thinking I could reuse it. The inspector said it would be against code to do this?? Does that sound right? It's in good condition and about 25 years old. The insulation is perfect and you can still see the lubricant that was used to pull it in.

It weighs just under 350# and I can only get around $425 for it at the scrap yard. That much new wire would cost over $3K. I haven't used it yet and am thinking of selling it. Won't be much of a market though if it's against the code to use.

I think that grounds have to be bare wire.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I think that grounds have to be bare wire.

They do around here. The #4 I used was bare wire.
I was also talking about service entrance cable and slightly off topic.

 

[ponytug]

They do around here. The #4 I used was bare wire.
I was also talking about service entrance cable and slightly off topic.

Sorry. I misunderstood what you wanted to use the wire for.

Our service drop, as well as our weatherhead wiring all needed to be replaced after fifty or so years of service. The power company insisted on replacing half the service drop (half way to the pole) one year and then two years later, when the corrosion was showing through the cracks in the insulation, the other half. Talk about pennywise and pound foolish.

Code, or not, I wouldn't reuse it. Insulation does age and start to fall apart. Something that I was forcibly reminded of recently here when I opened the electrical box feeding my welder outlet and discovered the insulation cracking off of the 4ga wire. Heavy gauge wire shorting isn't something that you want to be around.

I file replacing the wires under life safety/fire protection.

All the best, Peter

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The NEC no longer permits separate grounding of subpanels. You have to run a ground wire all the way from the main service panel. I'm not sure I agree with that, because a local ground is a great safety measure, but that's the code. It does eliminate ground loops.

 

[dieselscout80]

The NEC no longer permits separate grounding of subpanels. You have to run a ground wire all the way from the main service panel. I'm not sure I agree with that, because a local ground is a great safety measure, but that's the code. It does eliminate ground loops.

Interesting that would make less work.

 

[not2old]

The new sub panel in my shop was wired with 3/0 ACWU. Looking at a cut scrap, the ground wire is bare aluminum and about 1/2 the size of the other three conductors.

 

[ponytug]

The NEC no longer permits separate grounding of subpanels. You have to run a ground wire all the way from the main service panel. I'm not sure I agree with that, because a local ground is a great safety measure, but that's the code. It does eliminate ground loops.

I'd agree with you on the NEC and grounding, but that's probably a sit around the stove and chat all winter item.

I'm not an NEC expert, but always happy to learn. Is that rule for sub panels in the same building? I.e. a well pump panel would be a different building, and therefore need a ground? (What is the section, or sections, that apply for that?)

All the best,

Peter

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

I'd agree with you on the NEC and grounding, but that's probably a sit around the stove and chat all winter item.

I'm not an NEC expert, but always happy to learn. Is that rule for sub panels in the same building?

No, Edit: no ground rods required at subpanels in same building if that is what you are asking, but the EGC is required to be a seperate conductor from the neutral.

I.e. a well pump panel would be a different building, and therefore need a ground? (What is the section, or sections, that apply for that?)

NEC Art 250 Grounding

All the best,

Peter

Since the 1993 code cycle all sub panels located in a seperate structure are required to have a seperate neutral conductor and a seperate Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) run from the service panel. This cycle also required two ground rods to be driven at the seperate structure and bonded to the EGC.
Basically, any panel down stream of the service panel requires that the neutral and EGC be seperate conductors.
And that the neutral ground bond is only allowed at the service panel.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Our well is about 170’ from our house circuit breaker box. The 220v submersible well pump is about 150’ down. The line to the well is 12/2 wire, so I ran a new wire to the well 6/3 wire.

I want to put a load center with at least 3 breakers in it (pump, outlet and a light).

The well has PVC casing so that is not an option for grounding.

Should I put a ground rod at the well? The current system doesn’t have a ground at the well just at the house panel.

You are required to ground all metal that could become energized in a fault condition, since your PVC casing is non conductive there is no need for it to be bonded and no need for a ground rod near it.

But you will need to drive two ground rods at the seperate sub panel location and connect the equipment grounding conductor between the sub panel and the ground rods with a #6 solid bare conductor.
Is there a ground wire going down the casing to the pump?