Another Newbie looking to buy a tractor

[MaineBarn]

Hello,

I've done a bunch of online research which means I don't know a whole lot.

I have a scenario I haven't seen a lot of discussion on. The toughest thing I'll be doing with the tractor is at a family's site. I'm looking to clear a 800 foot as the crow flies single car width driveway through a wooded lot. It's land where there's been logging in the distant past but I'm not really sure if it will even be clear where those trails once were. It will be on an incline and is definitely full of rocks which will need to be moved. Those are the challenges. The things working in my favor is that the road can really take any route as it simply needs to connect to an adjacent road. That point can be the easiest point from the prospective of making the trail. We also have a house nearby that I can stay at. This means it can be slow and steady progress. I am well aware that a tractor isn't a bulldozer and the bucket is intended for lifting. My game plan would be to cut the trees into manageable chunks and have a dump site nearby. This would involve frequently grapple work. The rocks should be pretty good sized and that's where the lifting would also be tested. If I found any too big rocks, I could either divert the road around them or build up soil to go over them. Once the path is constructed, I would be able to dig up the surrounding area to use as a base and hopefully find some rocky soil on site. If not, would probably get gravel delivered to spread out. This road won't get a lot of use so I don't see needing a box blade initially. A rear blade should be good enough (and have another use as well).

I've kinda landed on a 50+/- HP requirement for my needs with 40+/- at the PTO. I want to get a tractor with a backhoe to dig up the roots (very slowly, I know) and the rocks. That way I'm not using the bucket incorrectly. Would also ditch the edge of the road to limit erosions. For attachments for this job, I've landed on a grapple, a rear blade, a stump puller, and a woodchipper. The last two should speed up the job and help moving forward. If the job goes quickly, I could clear a section for an eventual house as well as the tree line as it will be up on a hill and the view is currently blocked by some trees.

The longer term use of the tractor would be at my house. I'll have the usual assortment of stuff to chip and limbs to move. My most frequent use for it would be to lift the snow that falls from the roof onto the driveway. I have a metal roof and when the snow falls, it compacts into too dense of layers to snow blow or shovel. I would imagine a 7000lb (with backhoe) tractor blade could get under that pretty easily. The rear blade would also be used for snow removal. I also need to trench a pretty extensive irrigation system and put in a fence. Outside of that, I could see myself putting in a pond, grading the soil, redoing the entire lawn, etc... I definitely would find years of use and am not interested in renting a bigger machine for a month, purchasing a subcompact, and discovering I'm limited by the machine.

Would you think my requirements (50hp, 40hp PTO, backhoe, grapple, rear blade, stump puller, woodchipper, and post hole digger) would be able to do those various projects? Am I way off on the machine's requirements? Knowing the surrounding area, I estimated with a rock calculator I could be seeing 3-3,500lb rocks that will need to be pushed out of the way (not lifted). With the PTO, I'm thinking the test would be random limbs that are 6-8" wide. Ultimately I don't want to get anything that can't do the entire job.

Thanks!

 

[airbiscuit]

With what you've said, I really can't fault your logic. The loader lifting capacity will be a real pass/fail for your ability to move rocks. While you're at it, I would treat myself to a 50cc professional quality saw

And a super lightweight (5.2 lbs) trail saw

 

[BlueKnife]

Hello,

I've done a bunch of online research which means I don't know a whole lot.

You need an excavator and a skid steer or wheel loader, not a tractor. Once the driveway is in and site prepped, they could be sold and a tractor purchased to maintain the property. What's your budget?

 

[RjCorazza]

That seems like a tall order for a tractor / backhoe. Digging out and moving 3000 lb rock and stumps is not light duty stuff!

 

[MaineBarn]

With what you've said, I really can't fault your logic. The loader lifting capacity will be a real pass/fail for your ability to move rocks. While you're at it, I would treat myself to a 50cc professional quality saw
View attachment 2105552
And a super lightweight (5.2 lbs) trail saw
View attachment 2105555

I like your thinking. I currently have a pretty good echo but a lightweight one would be helpful to make the job easier. On the rocks, the goal would be to work around any really big ones. However, if I came to a point where there was a 5' diameter tree, a 3000lb rock sticking 5' up, or a 4500lb rock creating a 1' hump, I would probably try pushing the 3000lb rock out of the way and if that wasn't working, would mound over the bigger rock.

 

[MaineBarn]

You need an excavator and a skid steer or wheel loader, not a tractor. Once the driveway is in and site prepped, they could be sold and a tractor purchased to maintain the property. What's your budget?

Appreciate the insight. My budget overall (including attachments) would be around $60k financed. Not a lot up front though. If going with either skid steer or excavator, which would you recommend and why? Would the fact that I can pretty much pick any path over 10acres and it can avoid obstacles along the way influence your thinking?

 

[airbiscuit]

An excavator would be nice, but more $$$ and maintenance than I would care to do. I think your plan of following the path of least resistance and a 50-60hp tractor with a backhoe is doable, and positions you well for the future.

 

[Robin Veerman]

..or have a local contractor put in the driveway, and get the tractor needed to maintain it and your property. Clearing the laneway is only half the battle as you will likely need some gravel too.

 

[MaineBarn]

That seems like a tall order for a tractor / backhoe. Digging out and moving 3000 lb rock and stumps is not light duty stuff!

Definitely would be digging out stumps as needed. I know pictures are distorted, but I've seen some pretty big stumps in buckets of 25-35hp loaders where the specs show a lift capacity of 1700.

Maybe I was unclear on the bigger rocks. I would likely be trying to dig out any of the rocks that would create a bump along the road. If they were too big to dig, and there wasn't a route around them, I would mound up the soil to create a path over them. I think I'd at most be lifting 2,000lb rocks and anything bigger, trying to push out of the way.

One spec I see is "breakout force at ground level." Would this be comparable to almost rolling the stone? I know it's simply the lifting strength from the ground and as you get higher, the force decreases. For instance, if the breakout force was 4000lbs and a stone was 3000lbs, could the FEL wedge under, lift about a foot, and roll the rock backwards?

Not trying to get hung up on weights specifically. I know they'll be heavy stuff along the way and more so wondering if a tractor, with enough time, could finish the job.

 

[MaineBarn]

..or have a local contractor put in the driveway, and get the tractor needed to maintain it and your property. Clearing the laneway is only half the battle as you will likely need some gravel too.

100% agree. The thing is, I'd be putting a driveway in for my parents. If I did the driveway, they'd build a house up there. They're hung up on hiring someone for the driveway for whatever reason. This way, the driveway would be there and likely push them to build (they've been talking about it for 15years). If they didn't end up building, oh well. My sister probably would eventually and they'd be a path already for her.

 

[Carl_NH]

Appears you are in Maine, and have lots of rocks like we do here in NH. Consider getting a full sized used BH 4WD - Case 580, JD 410, Cat 416, Ford 575 or similar - they are 14-16K lbs so can move trees and rocks. They can be found with 3000 hrs for $25-35K then spend the other $30K on a decent used excavator with a blade and a thumb - minimum 10K but a 12K pound class is better.

Neither machine will dig 24-36" stumps quickly but will get the job done. Also your plan for a road - definitely clear at least 30-40 feet wide for your driveway - as trees grow back in, and you need to run electric and have enough space for drainage and snow etc.

Then sell the BH once you have your major work done and get a smaller machine for general property maintenance - but keep the excavator.

Yes you will have some repairs to the machines - hoses, Hyd cylinder rebuilds over the course of the project, but that's the nature of older larger machines.

 

[airbiscuit]

..or have a local contractor put in the driveway, and get the tractor needed to maintain it and your property. Clearing the laneway is only half the battle as you will likely need some gravel too.

You could do as much as you can easily do on your own schedule, then hire a contractor with a bulldozer to do the really difficult stuff for about $2,500.

 

[oosik]

Pictures would really help. I have a feeling - it's going to take longer than you envision.

Take seriously what Carl_NH says. Your driveway will need to be wide enough and constructed well enough to get large trucks to the build site. Lumber, concrete, power, well, etc. An 800 foot driveway is no small project.

 

[airbiscuit]

I'm looking to clear a 800 foot as the crow flies single car width driveway through a wooded lot. It will be on an incline and is definitely full of rocks which will need to be moved. The things working in my favor is that the road can really take any route as it simply needs to connect to an adjacent road. That point can be the easiest point from the prospective of making the trail. We also have a house nearby that I can stay at. This means it can be slow and steady progress.

I think he could do 800 feet in a summer!

 

[MaineBarn]

Appears you are in Maine, and have lots of rocks like we do here in NH. Consider getting a full sized used BH 4WD - Case 580, JD 410, Cat 416, Ford 575 or similar - they are 14-16K lbs so can move trees and rocks. They can be found with 3000 hrs for $25-35K then spend the other $30K on a decent used excavator with a blade and a thumb - minimum 10K but a 12K pound class is better.

Neither machine will dig 24-36" stumps quickly but will get the job done. Also your plan for a road - definitely clear at least 30-40 feet wide for your driveway - as trees grow back in, and you need to run electric and have enough space for drainage and snow etc.

Then sell the BH once you have your major work done and get a smaller machine for general property maintenance - but keep the excavator.

Yes you will have some repairs to the machines - hoses, Hyd cylinder rebuilds over the course of the project, but that's the nature of older larger machines.

I mean, I guess this makes sense that I haven't seen someone show up to do a complete job with a tractor before. Haha.

I guess I was being overly optimistic about having essentially unlimited time to do the project and not caring about what path it took. I've walked up to their potential build site and there are clearings over 100+ feet. Just not level paths. Maybe that clouded my view that it was going to be simply building over existing fairly cleared stretches and then some technical work in between.

 

[MaineBarn]

Pictures would really help. I have a feeling - it's going to take longer than you envision.

Take seriously what Carl_NH says. Your driveway will need to be wide enough and constructed well enough to get large trucks to the build site. Lumber, concrete, power, well, etc. An 800 foot driveway is no small project.

Definitely taking this all into mind. I won't be able to get any pictures as it's about 50mins away. Basically it's standard New England wooded area. Some places dense, other places really wide. My dad had shared where he thought the ideal entrance would be for the driveway and if I had a picture of that, we'd be debating if a subcompact or 25hp tractor could do it. That section is very open. The problem is it's not like that the whole way.

I do know we wouldn't have to worry about power. They'd put in solar with battery storage and have a generator as a backup. They would have a well and a foundation. So Carl_NH is correct about needing to build a solid footing. The width might not need to be that extreme as the existing gravel road is only 20' wide and the road association only clears a small portion beyond (or sometimes not even the full width of the road).

 

[MaineBarn]

You could do as much as you can easily do on your own schedule, then hire a contractor with a bulldozer to do the really difficult stuff for about $2,500.

Very good point!

Especially if they'd be hiring heavy equipment to finish up the build site. I don't think they'll have a foundation but would imagine an excavator might be required before pouring the foundation.

 

[paulsharvey]

Ok, so the stumps.... the old farmers will tell you, sometimes it's easier to plow around them. Stumps are a bear, even with full sized construction equipment (I'm not talking JD35 mini hoe and a skid steer, I mean they can be a bear with a 20 ton hoe and a D5). Something like a 50hp tractor can absolutely pull 5" stumps, and if you take a Lot of time, digging, ramping down, wiggle, ramp down more, you probably can get 12" stumps out. I would try to avoid any really large stumps. Anything not directly in the road bed, cut flush, or grind (if you prefer).

On the driveway itself; I recommend a 12 ft wide driveway, cut any trees within 4 ft of the edge of the drive (you can cut those stumps flush). Get any roots bigger than 2-3" out of the subgrade, and make sure water has some place to go. The driving surface will be Highly dependent on your local materials.

Honestly, I would skip the tractor mounted back hoe. For the $6-8k extra, that is probably a rent something for digging. Some people love their back hoes, but they aren't a lot of fun to put on/off, and either A, get left on 100% of the time, taking 75% of the utility from a machine, or B, get put under a pole barn for years.

On trees; if you do Want/Need a stumps removed, it's better to not cut the tree low. Leave it up atleast 4 ft, so there is some leverage to push-pull on. Don't ram stuff, but you won't general tear anything up if you are in medium range and 2wd. If you find you self getting a running start to push (or pull), stop.

HST transmissions are a joy over old hunt and peek gear shifters, but modern Power Shuttles are fantastic (MF 2860M), and offer basically all the convenience.

Your budget sounds very doable, but don't go hog wild on every impliment at once. Get atleast dual rear remotes, and 3rd function, for the grapple. A sump grinder might be more useful than a back hoe.

If there is a lot of small trees to dense brush; look for a used Brown Tree Cutter 6 ft. You think it's a bush hog, but it's a lot more than that, and can take down 6" standing stuff, and turn it to match sticks, just go slow.

 

[paulsharvey]

I did skip over the rock portion, because rocks can range from a small mountain to basket ball sized, or just plain never ending small-medium rocks. They don't make a tractor large enough time deal with sheet rock. If a truck sized rock is really in the way, there are foam injection products that will split it after drilling and injecting. For truck sized rocks, it's often better to detour or pick up the grade of the road to avoid.

I know somebody probably makes a hydralic hammer that mounts on a tractor loader. DONT do it. I've seen 20 ton hoes break welds, and I always recommend Running from used demolition machines.

 

[BlueKnife]

Appreciate the insight. My budget overall (including attachments) would be around $60k financed. Not a lot up front though. If going with either skid steer or excavator, which would you recommend and why? Would the fact that I can pretty much pick any path over 10acres and it can avoid obstacles along the way influence your thinking?

$60k would easily get you both (not new, obviously) If, for some reason, you had to pick just one, I would get the excavator. Putting in a driveway with a backhoe is a giant PITA, especially if we're talking about a backhoe attachment on a tractor. In rocky ground, it's impossible to do it right using a loader bucket. Really though, for what you describe, it would probably make a lot more sense to just hire someone to put in the driveway and prep the site. A contractor with a decent sized excavator (20-40 ton) and dozer will be able to do in a few days what it would take you months or years to do with a tractor, or weeks with a mini excavator and skid steer.