Buying Advice Diesel smog emission stuff?

[Paystar]

As a rule, I don't frequent powerstroke forums at all. Only forum I frequent is this one and a couple firearms forums and at least on those you can post political comments, unlike this one where you get your pee-pee slapped and posts deleted because this forum is run and moderated by liberals. Between the above and the censored words on here, sometimes I find this forum tedious at best.

You should join Thumper Talk forum for motorcycles. They are ALL professional motorcycle racers (with really bad grammar) and they frequently talk crap about all the factory employed racers, and they all can tell you everything those pro racers are doing wrong, how they can beat them and how they can better tune their bikes.
Yet I don't recognize any of their names when I watch professional racing on tv? Go figure.
They must all be using alias's in their pro racing lives.

 

[finn1]

Well, honestly, never played with a turbo on a diesel engine before. But I have a 2002 Corvette with twin turbos, and I certainly played around a LOT with tuning them in a gas engine environment. I fail to see how they could increase any emissions above what is normal. You still have to make sure the air/fuel mixture is correct across the rpm and load band they operate within. Which means you are in a plus air pressure (boost) instead of a vacuum that normally is seen by the intake of an engine. Running too rich or too lean is STILL too rich or too lean, regardless of whether you are in boost or in vacuum, which is not good for the engine.

That exhaust simply powers the impellers on one side of a shaft that drive the other side impellers that force outside cooler air into the intake. An engine is going to develop exhaust gases with or without the turbo in place. It is a very simple process, and I am surprised more vehicles don't use it.

You’re oversimplifying and obviously don’t understand the chemistry and physics of NOx formation.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

You’re oversimplifying and obviously don’t understand the chemistry and physics of NOx formation.

I hate me some NOx. Best way to fix NOx is to remove DOC, TIG weld some SS tubing in its place and then block off your egr. Get that NOx out.

 

[DieselBound]

Quick comment on/about "sensors"... They're not just for emissions, they're for controlling fueling as well. With common rail manufacturers are using up to seven injection events per combustion cycle: I believe there's now a crystal-based injector that will be able to do even more events- VERY fast acting. This is how cleaner burns and more power happens. Yes, as with all things, efficiency is offset by an increase in complexity (sensor failures etc.): that said, however, less soot in engine oil actually does improve the longevity of basic engine internals.

Note that even w/o DPFs common rail engines can do some freakish things. I've experienced low fuel rail conditions (with an engine having the robust CP3 injection pump) that effectively shut the engine down; problematic in cars that are in traffic. Save the fuel pump, kill the driver- ha, um...

ALL my diesels are in-lines and ALL are extremely reliable (ranging from all mechanical to computer controlled with DPF).

My stance on all of this is that I want to see an entire lifecycle on all this stuff. I suspect that there's a lot of things that were "not seen" in order to make the "solutions" appear more favorable. Without measuring all of it we have no idea of the overall score.

 

[5030]

I would much rather have the regen feature than have to add DEF.

I use a ton of DEF and buy it when it's on sale too. I usually buy 32 2.5 gallon jugs of it at a time. but it don't go in my engines because they are all pre 4.

I spray it on my alfalfa fields between cuts. DEF is Urea and deionized water and liquid urea is excellent fertilizer. I do cut it from 32% by volume to 28% prior to spraying. Much cheaper than 46 granulated today.

When I do buy it I always get questioned about why I buy so much at a time. I just smile and say nothing as people have no idea that it's an excellent and easy to apply fertilizer.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Have you considered buying it at the pump at a truck stop instead? Quite a bit cheaper than in boxes.

 

[5030]

I must have excellent oil control and compression rings on both my Kubota's, because my engine oil is never black, just dark brown at change time. Could also be the absence of all the EPA mandated junk as well.

 

[5030]

Have you considered buying it at the pump at a truck stop instead? Quite a bit cheaper than in boxes.

Actually, it's not when it's on sale and I only buy it on sale. Not sure a truck stop would cotton to me pumping 150 gallons of it at a shot either.

Just bought it at Menards on sale last week. $7.50 for 2.5 gallon jugs and still the 11% off deal as well. besides, the jugs make it easier to handle.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

I must have excellent oil control and compression rings on both my Kubota's, because my engine oil is never black, just dark brown at change time. Could also be the absence of all the EPA mandated junk as well.

My LB7 Duramax oil stays super clean too. Its just because no emissions. 7.3 is emission free too but that HEUI injection puts the hurt on some oil. I use good oil in that and still change it between 3k and 4k. Modern emissions makes for some dirty oil, that you are right.

 

[5030]

When 46% granulated is going for 50 bucks a sack (50 pounds), it's a brainless choice for me.

 

[5030]

My LB7 Duramax oil stays super clean too. Its just because no emissions. 7.3 is emission free too but that HEUI injection puts the hurt on some oil. I use good oil in that and still change it between 3k and 4k. Modern emissions makes for some dirty oil, that you are right.

Every 5 on my 7.3 plus a pint of Nano-Borate. Always 5-40 T6.

 

[Paystar]

I use a ton of DEF and buy it when it's on sale too. I usually buy 32 2.5 gallon jugs of it at a time. but it don't go in my engines because they are all pre 4.

I spray it on my alfalfa fields between cuts. DEF is Urea and deionized water and liquid urea is excellent fertilizer. I do cut it from 32% by volume to 28% prior to spraying. Much cheaper than 46 granulated today.

When I do buy it I always get questioned about why I buy so much at a time. I just smile and say nothing as people have no idea that it's an excellent and easy to apply fertilizer.

I've used it for same purpose, LOL I get it cheap from my local Freightliner/Western Star dealer now that I don't need it for trucks any more.

 

[jon171717]

There were horror stories when the technology was first introduced, but in my opinion, it's the norm now. I had a Kubota 2620. I traded it for a John Deere 2038R because I wanted a bigger tractor. I've got almost 600 hours on the JD. It's run through several regens, and I've not had an issue. I'd suggest getting the size tractor you need and not worrying about it.

 

[Roger66]

To me the big thing is your use case, for me I doo all short runs, I don't have archers of fields to brush hog. These emissions systems are designed for good high rpm long runs. I use my tractor primarily as a forklift. I fire it up, go move something heavy, then shut it off. I don't think my use case a DPF would live a normal lifespan. If you normally use the tractor all day bushhogging, plowing fields, etc. the DPF will probably be fine. Myself I went for the largest frame 25 HP tractor I could find and it is under powered, but you can do everything, just a bit slower.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

To me the big thing is your use case, for me I doo all short runs, I don't have archers of fields to brush hog. These emissions systems are designed for good high rpm long runs. I use my tractor primarily as a forklift. I fire it up, go move something heavy, then shut it off. I don't think my use case a DPF would live a normal lifespan. If you normally use the tractor all day bushhogging, plowing fields, etc. the DPF will probably be fine. Myself I went for the largest frame 25 HP tractor I could find and it is under powered, but you can do everything, just a bit slower.

Exactly how we use our tractor. I have nothing to brush hog or plow or grade our tractor is used to move big heavy things from one side of our land to the other. I doubt I will ever have anything hooked to the PTO except maybe if we get a tiller. I have 200 7ft t posts coming tomorrow they will all get moved on pallets into the field with the tractor, it will take 15 minutes if that and the tractor will get shut off.

 

[Roger66]

Exactly how we use our tractor. I have nothing to brush hog or plow or grade our tractor is used to move big heavy things from one side of our land to the other. I doubt I will ever have anything hooked to the PTO except maybe if we get a tiller. I have 200 7ft t posts coming tomorrow they will all get moved on pallets into the field with the tractor, it will take 15 minutes if that and the tractor will get shut off.

SInce you have a Mahindra 4540, you don't have a DPF to clog up. You just have a DOC, but I don't thing DOC's commonly clog up like DPFs.

 

[Jimmyob]

I thought about the 25hp Kubota a couple years ago but opted for the lx3310. Great decision. Now after a couple years and several attachments, I wish I'd have gone to the L3901. Extra hp and slightly larger loader and a couple upgrades I didn't really need.I love my 3310 but when it comes to a couple of my attachments, a little more power could make a difference. Wood chipper WM8H could use a little more hp at the pto and the post and tree puller too. 3rd function add on is a must. The grapple works great and a couple times I could have used a little more power with the pallet forks. Either way, think of what you're doing with it and what attachments you'll use, the regen is not an issue for me. Just keep working and it's done in 15-20 minutes. I went w/o the cab, easier in the woods and the rhino roof keeps enough sun off me in the fields.
Hope this is helpful. I've benefitted from alot of sound advice this site offers. Good luck!

 

[JimmyJ321]

My take: Anything under 50 HP is an overgrown lawnmower. If you have to cut grass and a 5 ft. Bush hog , go for it. I have a Kubota M7060. It is my Fourth upgrade in 45 years. I have gone from a large yard to 260 acres with 175 of it open pasture. The emissions change at 75 HP from particulate filter to DEF. Shuttle shift is the way to go. Kubota is a tough, dependable brand. Wide network of dealers who stock parts. Did I say stock parts, yes, stock parts @ available. I have heard several horror stories about “off” brand tractors and trying to get parts for them. I have taken my Kubotas to the shop one time in 45 years. Proper maintenance and don’t try to do things that the tractor is not capable of doing. Final thought: There is no substitute for horsepower.

 

[Johnb0311]

When I first started thinking about buying my first tractor, my thoughts were to limit my search to all tractors with less than 25 or 26 (number varies, it seems) horsepower in order to avoid buying a new tractor with government dictated smog emission controls to have to deal with. Some people claim that they can be a real pain. Others are saying they are no big deal. So, what is the TRUTH?

Are some brands better than others in this department? I have been focused on probably buying a Kioti brand tractor, particularly the CK20SE CAB series, in which it appears all the models are pretty much identical except for the amount of horsepower the engine will put out. I guess it is a matter mostly of tuning and air/fuel control of that diesel engine making the difference. So I can choose to buy the 24.5 horsepower version, or perhaps the two other models with higher engine ratings (34.9 and 39.6 hp respectively), but having the onerous smog emission complexities attached.

Is this a big deal, or not? Headache, or not? Is it really something I should allow to influence my decision about what to buy?

Of course, another perspective of looking at this is: Will the difference of just 10.4 and 15.1 horsepower even worth fretting over and just buy the 24.5 horsepower version and be done with it?

I looked at the CK 2510's when I went shopping and decided on the extra 10 hsp. with the CK 3510 hst. Very glad I did. For me managing 32 acres and a long driveway blowing snow in the winter this works for me. Also bush hogging and dragging logs is no problems. Beet juice in the tires and chains for winter. I run the engine at recommended high revs and very rarely had I had to do a regen, and when I do I just keep the revs up and keep working. Finishing third year and no problems cept tightening few bolts and fixing rops lights and mirrors from coming too close to trees. Now that I said this, I'll probably go out to use it and the wheel will fall off or it won't start. LOL Knock on wood.

 

[jiggseob]

The DPF emissions gadgetry will fail and cause you to need to spend money to make it better or make it gone. Even if you operate the unit in accordance with recommendations - high rpm, hot, etc, - it will fail. Eventually. If you operate your unit as a UTILITY tractor, doing little chores here and there, that failure is likely happen sooner than later. If you operate your unit as a production tractor, working at close to rated max load for hours at a time, that failure may not happen as soon.

A turbocharger is not to be feared. DPF and catalytic converter WILL cause you $$$-hurt. Avoid if you can.