snow roller for XC snow

[ArlyA]

Thanks Bravo but as expected, a few shortcoming were identified in my design... For example;

More weight must be added to the roller front, to counter the weight of the pan. The pan with its comb and flexible wings, added more than I expected.....

Needs hand holds welded to the rear of the frame to help when it being moved. What else??

 

[ArlyA]

Back rolling the neighborhood sledding hill again. The roller needs some tweaking but that's to be expected.

 

[ArlyA]

Here is a photo taken from the top of the kids run. You can see the streets snow berm has been knocked down some. That's from blading* it down with our machine. There run does cross there driveway. The 2nd photo is a "new and improved hitch" that I added some solid square stock to its inside, so as to increase its weight.

*spell check doesn't like this word!

 

[aczlan]

How much weight needs to be on one of those? Will they work with a smaller roller (a piece of 12" smooth inside, ribbed outside pipe like that)?
I have a tow frame from a lawn roller and a couple of leftover 12" culvert and that might be nice to pack down where we tow the kids around behind the RTV.

Aaron Z

 

[ArlyA]

How much weight needs to be on one of those? Will they work with a smaller roller (a piece of 12" smooth inside, ribbed outside pipe like that)?
I have a tow frame from a lawn roller and a couple of leftover 12" culvert and that might be nice to pack down where we tow the kids around behind the RTV.

I posted the below note a few pages back. Seems that a pipe that small, might act more like a plow, than roller.

I bit of snow grooming information follows. When snow falls and builds up, it has much air space within it. These flakes are quite shapely which retains lots and lots of space for air. When we groom it, we roll it around, or work in some fashion to knock those snow shapes down and reduce this air space. After doing that, you allow some time and these broken flakes will refreeze back together and become more like ice, than those original snow flakes. The more you work it, the more air space is eliminated. Note I did not state that great weight is required to knock those shapes down.

 

[aczlan]

I posted the below note a few pages back. Seems that a pipe that small, might act more like a plow, than roller.

I bit of snow grooming information follows. When snow falls and builds up, it has much air space within it. These flakes are quite shapely which retains lots and lots of space for air. When we groom it, we roll it around, or work in some fashion to knock those snow shapes down and reduce this air space. After doing that, you allow some time and these broken flakes will refreeze back together and become more like ice, than those original snow flakes. The more you work it, the more air space is eliminated. Note I did not state that great weight is required to knock those shapes down.

Kind of what I am concerned about.
If a roller is good for 1/2 the diameter, a 12" culvert (which is probably closer to 15" OD for the ribs) should be good for 6-7" of uncompacted snow, right?
We can't drive the RTV through much more than 8" before it starts floating and losing traction.
Perhaps I will try it if I get bored.
Thinking of 4 2x4s along the insides of the culvert, some scraps of plywood cut to fit into the ends, some 2x4 hardwood scraps in an X (inside and outside of the plywood) for bearings and a piece of 1/2" pipe with solid rod driven in at the ends for the axle.


Aaron Z

 

[BravoXray]

I posted the below note a few pages back. Seems that a pipe that small, might act more like a plow, than roller.

I bit of snow grooming information follows. When snow falls and builds up, it has much air space within it. These flakes are quite shapely which retains lots and lots of space for air. When we groom it, we roll it around, or work in some fashion to knock those snow shapes down and reduce this air space. After doing that, you allow some time and these broken flakes will refreeze back together and become more like ice, than those original snow flakes. The more you work it, the more air space is eliminated. Note I did not state that great weight is required to knock those shapes down.

Fill 'er with concrete!
That'll flatten that snow in short order.

 

[ArlyA]

This roller was in the shop yesterday to add 2 rear handles to it. This is to assist with its shuttling.

Then it was dropped off at the trail head as we await more snow.

 

[Thunder chicken]

How much does your rear pan and comb help? If you’re just gonna roll out some fresh snow and groom right away anyways, would it be worth the effort and expense? Perhaps just a piece of chain link fence behind the roller to move the snow a bit more?
ive got to build one up here for the non-believers. Even our skidoo club guys wont use their packer, they’d rather take the long drag and stir up gravel, especially on the hill tops……

 

[ArlyA]

How much does your rear pan and comb help? If you’re just gonna roll out some fresh snow and groom right away anyways, would it be worth the effort and expense? Perhaps just a piece of chain link fence behind the roller to move the snow a bit more?
ive got to build one up here for the non-believers. Even our skidoo club guys wont use their packer, they’d rather take the long drag and stir up gravel, especially on the hill tops……

TC are you doing sled or XC trails? I've used rollers without a pan and would say its a necessity. Its like you are adding another compaction to your snow and improving it more, than just the roller.

 

[Cycledude]

Piston Bully with wide rubber tracks works excellent for packing trails the first time through . But we do snowmobile trails not cross country ski trails.

 

[ArlyA]

I operated a trail Bully 2 years ago with 40" something tracks. We're not getting one.

 

[Stomper]

I Built a snow roller/packer from a 18" (I think it was 18") stainless steel thinwall pipe. I used to use it lots but haven't used it in years. Our trails are fairly bumpy and need lots of snow to make them smooth. We found out that using the roller, all of the snow would pack down and there was not enough loose fluffy snow to fill in the low spots. Our drag is fairly light and doesn't cut/shave hard snow easily. Now we drive around the trails once with two sleds and and it packs most of the trail and leaves some of the trail unpacked. When we drag it the loose snow gathers up on the drag and drops into the low spots. We get smother trails faster at the begining of the year this way. Having said all of this we dont get big 12" dumps of snow in one shot.

 

[Thunder chicken]

Interesting Stomper, thanks for sharing your experience. We are in the same boat here, usually not big snows and quite rough trails. Usually dragging an old chain link fence gate at the beginning for the first few snows seems to help make a base. Like you our snow is almost always light and fluffy at -20°c too….. to make a roller or not….. a small cabbed machine sure would be nice either way .

 

[ArlyA]

Earlier I posted why you need X, Y and Z implements to match which conditions you might have today. (may have been in the drag thread) I'll find it and post it again.

 

[ArlyA]

I Built a snow roller/packer from a 18" (I think it was 18") stainless steel thinwall pipe. I used to use it lots but haven't used it in years. Our trails are fairly bumpy and need lots of snow to make them smooth. We found out that using the roller, all of the snow would pack down and there was not enough loose fluffy snow to fill in the low spots. Our drag is fairly light and doesn't cut/shave hard snow easily. Now we drive around the trails once with two sleds and and it packs most of the trail and leaves some of the trail unpacked. When we drag it the loose snow gathers up on the drag and drops into the low spots. We get smother trails faster at the begining of the year this way. Having said all of this we dont get big 12" dumps of snow in one shot.

You are not givng us much for details Stomp. Could you post pics of that roller? What sleds are you using? Seems your sleds will have higher PSI than that roller should have.

 

[Stomper]

You are not givng us much for details Stomp. Could you post pics of that roller? What sleds are you using? Seems your sleds will have higher PSI than that roller should have.

I will dig it out of the bush and get you a picture. You are correct in saying the sleds have a higher psi than the roller but our trails are in very bumpy and uneven country and by not packing the whole trail and leaving some of the snow unpacked, the light drag we use pulls the unpacked snow and dumps it in the low spots where it is needed. We pulled all of our groming equipment with a yamaha nytro and yamaha viper. My buddy did buy tracks for his polaris quad and that helps out alot with the grooming. We do not have a ski club for our local trails, it is myself and a buddy that do all the work and pay all the costs to keep these trails open and operating. We have a yearly operating budget of $0.00 and use our own personal equipment and time. Having heavey or expensive equipment is completly out of the question. Our equipment is what we could afford to build at the time to get the best result we could. It most likely isnt up to the standards of larger ski clubs, or probably any ski club for that matter, but over the years using it we found what works and what doesn't for our needs.
I spend more time grooming trails than I do skiing and my buddy doesn't even ski.

 

[Stomper]

Interesting Stomper, thanks for sharing your experience. We are in the same boat here, usually not big snows and quite rough trails. Usually dragging an old chain link fence gate at the beginning for the first few snows seems to help make a base. Like you our snow is almost always light and fluffy at -20°c too….. to make a roller or not….. a small cabbed machine sure would be nice either way .

We've used the chain link fence option to. It actually works quite well. As for building a roller, I'm sure they have thier place and do what they are designed to do in the right conditions, but in our personal experiences we have found that for us, it's not worth the time or effort.

 

[ArlyA]

I will dig it out of the bush and get you a picture. You are correct in saying the sleds have a higher psi than the roller but our trails are in very bumpy and uneven country and by not packing the whole trail and leaving some of the snow unpacked, the light drag we use pulls the unpacked snow and dumps it in the low spots where it is needed. We pulled all of our groming equipment with a yamaha nytro and yamaha viper. My buddy did buy tracks for his polaris quad and that helps out alot with the grooming. We do not have a ski club for our local trails, it is myself and a buddy that do all the work and pay all the costs to keep these trails open and operating. We have a yearly operating budget of $0.00 and use our own personal equipment and time. Having heavey or expensive equipment is completly out of the question. Our equipment is what we could afford to build at the time to get the best result we could. It most likely isnt up to the standards of larger ski clubs, or probably any ski club for that matter, but over the years using it we found what works and what doesn't for our needs.
I spend more time grooming trails than I do skiing and my buddy doesn't even ski.

We are doiing about 3 miles of ski/snowshoe/walk/phat bike trails. I am personally paying for the construction of groomzila implement and already built and paid for the roller.

 

[Stomper]

We are doiing about 3 miles of ski/snowshoe/walk/phat bike trails. I am personally paying for the construction of groomzila implement and already built and paid for the roller.

You sure have nice equipment for only 3 miles of trails. That’s awesome. We are doing around 7 miles.