PTO generator selection help

   / PTO generator selection help
  • Thread Starter
#61  
Sorry, if it runs at all it will be on a summer day.
Also it will only run at a partial load and even then less then a day.

Just getting my info from comments from people who own one (Amazon).

Have you owned one?
 
   / PTO generator selection help #62  
Propane powered generator, No.
Propane powered trucks and tractors , Yes.
Also if you would look at the link I posted earlier you can see the usage and vaporization rates from different cylinders at different temperatures.
 
   / PTO generator selection help
  • Thread Starter
#63  
Propane powered generator, No.
Propane powered trucks and tractors , Yes.
Also if you would look at the link I posted earlier you can see the usage and vaporization rates from different cylinders at different temperatures.

I would love to hear from someone with real world experience on using propane generator. Haven't read any users on amazon saying it won't work
 
   / PTO generator selection help
  • Thread Starter
#64  
Maybe I said it before in this thread. Here, PTO sets are always listed in farm mag classified ads, CHEAP! I bought a 15K Onan years ago from a defunct chicken farm for $500.00 CDN. Mind you money was worth a lot more back then. I would consider it very foolish to buy one new.

Haven't found any used to generators on Craigslist
 
   / PTO generator selection help #65  
I have a 5k onan propane whole house generator sized to a 100lb stationary tank. Longest I've been without power is 6 or 7 hours maybe. Consumption was minimal. I do have very little that's needs powered though.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #66  
Well, my 15KW Winco PTO generator cost me $1200.00 new, and I already have a tractor. So as far as I'm concerned it's a cheeep way to get a WELL MADE diesel generator that will easily power my house in any weather, without another engine to take care of. I always have diesel around for my tractor and my tractor is always ready to go...

I'm NOT dealing with "unknown china quality" (or lack of) either, the Winco is rated continuous duty as is my tractor...

SR
 
   / PTO generator selection help #67  
Well, FWIW, I have had propane regulators freeze up above zero, due to propane flow, and I have had tanks get too cold to evaporate enough propane. So, yes, the effect is real.

So...I think that you will be happier with bigger tanks, or tandem tanks, trying to run a generator. Those evaporation tables are a very useful guide, but they aren't totally accurate. Looking at the table, I can tell that Generator Joe didn't derated them correctly. A propane generator running at a 25% load does draw much more than 25% of the 100% column. Stick to the the 100% column would be my advice.

My other bit of advice is plan for a much longer outage than you think. It is the nature of the beast to have a bigger hurricane, or bigger swath of thunderstorms, or tornados, or... than you are used to. How will you have stockpiled enough fuel for that event? As a kid, we had a weather event that spawned a 150 mile swath of tornados and thunderstorms that took out half a state worth of power lines. We had linesman from all over the US come in to rewire the state. Fortunately, there weren't other major problems in the US at the time. It was the first time in living memory in that area that the power had been out for more than a day.
  • Lucky item #1; at the time we were lucky to be a priority for the power company, but it still took eight or ten days to restore power. (I just remember that it was more than a week.)
  • Lucky item #2; we had an extremely fuel efficient tractor, that we were able to turn down by about 50%, and had enough diesel to run it 16 hours a day. The kids weren't happy about no hot water, but we had food, and cooking gas.
  • Lucky item #3 was an employee who lived twenty miles away who had power, and who had a backup PTO generator that was big enough to run everything that she was willing to lend us.
It could have been much worse. The PTO generator worked like a champ. Zero issues, and fortunately, we didn't need to cut and bale hay during the outage, so the tractor could crank away. But, yes, quite loud.

Just free advice: worth what you paid for it.

I should mention that I have a backup diesel generator. Why? Because I have lots of diesel fuel in use on the ranch, so I turn the fuel over, and diesels are relatively fuel efficient, so what I have on hand would last us a long time. I also have a backup backup gasoline generator, in case the diesel fails. (Which it has) I looked into propane, and for our needs, I couldn't see stockpiling enough propane. My next door neighbor went went the other way and just put in a 22kw Generac propane automatic standby generator, but then realized that her 500 gallon tank was only going to last two and a half days at full load. She's pouring a new foundation for a 2,000 gallon propane tank. She is seventy and her husband is eighty five or so, and not really up to lugging portables around. They are very happy with it. Two other neighbors have nothing and just toss their food out, and get by with candles. In an earthquake zone! But we won't go there. Different strokes for different folks. You need to do what works well for you, and your scenarios.

We are in the process of upgrading to whole house batteries and coupling our solar to batteries to have power that doesn't require stockpiled fuel. But we live in an earthquake zone, with wildfires, in a rural area, and with a truly substandard power company. It is the power company that "forgot" to pressure test their gas pipeline, and then blew up a suburban neighborhood, and has caused numerous wildfires in California. The one convicted of felonies. The one that has gone bankrupt to avoid paying for the damage their wildfires have caused. Yeah, that one. They also have trouble maintaining their power lines. Big surprise, right? I have had more outages in the last decade than in my entire prior life. Putting batteries in is NOT a cheap option, and we wouldn't be doing it without subsidies from the state (who gets a more reliable and greener electrical grid out of the program).

All the best,

Peter
 
   / PTO generator selection help #68  
Haven't found any used to generators on Craigslist
I have noticed that what turns up on Craigslist seems to be a strong function of your local area. I have never seen a PTO generator on Craigslist either, but I see them turn up at auctions around here. And by "around", I mean within a couple hours drive.

All the best,

Peter
 
   / PTO generator selection help #69  
We used a lot of propane in the 60's 70's.
Now Quebec has its share of cold winters so we learned a lot about propane.
We'd stock up 6-7 100 lb every fall and came spring we'd still have about 1/3 left.

I have seen propane tank heaters offered for that purpose as the cold reduces the pressure in the tanks.

Recently I saw that they would dig a pit to store cylinders in an attempt to take advantage of ground heat.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #70  
2 cents: Yes, propane gas flow, and ability to supply engines, is dependent on how fast the propane gas can boil off the liquid propane in the tank. As noted, this is very dependent on the temperature.
Also note, the surface area of the liquid in the tank will determine how fast gas can boil off. That is, liquid in a cylinder (canister or tank) configured to operate on its side will have a lot more surface area to boil off gas than same size tank that operates upright.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #71  
I would love to hear from someone with real world experience on using propane generator. Haven't read any users on amazon saying it won't work

There is no magic in a generator. There should be a listing in your manual or spec sheet for fuel consumption either in gallons per hour or BTU.
There are many sources online for propane vaporization rate vs tank size. Determining if your unit will run, and for how long is a simple arithmetic problem once you have the data.
I ball parked the consumption of a 13kw generator at 200,000 BTU, or a bit over 2 gallons per hour to come to my conclusions.

To answer the question, I do have a propane 22kw Generac standby generator and I built my last one including the fuel conversion on a 20hp Honda engine which was closer to the size that you are talking about.
 
   / PTO generator selection help
  • Thread Starter
#72  
The advantage of propane is lasting a long time. I don't want to have to chance not getting diesel in an emergency weather situation. I only have ten gal diesel at any one time as I don't use my tractor that much
 
   / PTO generator selection help #73  
My 22kw propane generator never had starting or running issues. But my first tank was 250 gal and my current tank is buried 1000 gal.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #74  
Just curious: Do buried tanks have better evaporation performance due to warmer earth temperatures?

All the best,

Peter
 
   / PTO generator selection help #75  
i do know there are no freezing issues with buried tanks. i have a 1000gal buried tank and the top of the metal tank is about 3 feet under ground. all that shows is an 18" tube to access fill port and regulator. but than again, i never experienced freezing on my above ground tank. it was 250 gallon. where i really see these issues are on small 100 gal tanks and below.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #76  
The advantage of propane is lasting a long time. I don't want to have to chance not getting diesel in an emergency weather situation. I only have ten gal diesel at any one time as I don't use my tractor that much

I don't have a pto generator, or a propane "anything" but I do pay attention when my friends have issues. Pleasant Hill, LA with a 20K whole house back up unit and a 250 gallon tank. The issue was not in the ability of the tank to handle the unit, it did fine. In fact the house became the central cooking and sleeping place for several of the closeby families. Now, the issue...
So you have 100 or 250 gallons of propane and a major storm (as was the case) or a earthquake or an ice storm (more likely for you). When you start the generator, you have basically pretty full tanks, but a couple days or a week later, you have none. In the case where everyone is running portable generators or whole house generators, the two things that happen are 1) gas gets to be in short supply, because either the stations have no power or they have run out because the trucks can't keep up with the added demand of all the generators (happens in Florida regularly). Now, propane has to come in a truck, and what happens if your supplier doesn't have power? Or if one of his drivers wrecks one of the two trucks that supply his customers? (yep, Pleasant Hill). Now the generator tank gets low and you can't do much about it. If you were using diesel, with a tank, you could theoretically grab a couple 5 gallon cans to keep it going from your nearby truckstop or gas station. So many times I have seen "out of gas" signs but filled up my diesel pickup. Another reason for me to seriously consider diesel, is I am a truck driver and when I am home, I have a couple hundred gallons reserve, that in an emergency could be used (with the companies permission of course!)
Anyway, consider not being completely dependent on others, or our government, as it is getting to where other people are only looking out for themselves.
David from jax
 
   / PTO generator selection help #77  
Here our propane companies will fill your tanks anytime, even in power outage, as long as they can physically get to the property. If trees block the road.... oh well.

The propane co i use has a generator and a large tank farm and 6 trucks. The gas stations near me dont have generators. No gas, no diesel no propane during outage.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #78  
It would seem futile to me to have a 20k whole house generator feed off a 100 or 250 gallon propane tank.
I wouldn't mess with anything smaller than 1000 gallon tank.
 
   / PTO generator selection help #79  
In my mind. Propane for gen use with small tanks would add significant stress to any long term (you rarely know when the tricity will come back on) outage. How much should I use, or for how long? Seems to be creating it's own trap in effect. What's worse than having something but not having it?

Have to think of that wonderfull feeling, driving along on the edge of your seat in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere with your fuel gauge hovering on 'E'.
 
   / PTO generator selection help
  • Thread Starter
#80  
The generator is for short term (2 days or less) not for long term.

Talking to long term residents in my area the one big incident was a once and a lifetime ice storm that cut power for 3 weeks.

I'm not planning on spending $6 - 10k on a once and a lifetime incident.

As far a cold and propane I would probably buy a waterproof heating blanket to minimize issues with the propane.
Amazon.com: ARRIS Heated Blanket, 5V Electric Outdoor Waterproof Fleece Blanket with Hood, Waterproof Windproof Stadium Mat for Camping, Picnic, Sports, Football, Concerts, 55 x 27.6 inc …: Kitchen & Dining
 

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