Another "Help me pick a tractor" thread

[niterydr]

:confused2:

Here is the scenario:

Recently bought a 21 acre Hobby Farm/Ranch in East Texas (Elkhart, Grapeland area) and need to look for a tractor to do the following:
Mow

• Front Lawn has some Elevation, about 1 acre
• Back Lawn has about 3/4 acre
• Back Pasture has about 10 acres of mixed vegetation and some brush to wack down
• Side Pasture is about 3 acres but is rolling
• Far back pasture is another 5 acres

Farm Duties

• Move Round Bales
• Turn manure piles
• Food plots for deer
• Help move logs and clear out timber
• Light grading work (neighbor has large tractors and can help
• Drag Horse arena

The options are a bit overwhelming as to what to prioritize first. In all of my research it seems that mowing with a brush hog isn't a big deal if you do it often, my "lawn" isn't exactly a golf course and I can eventually get a zero turn once it is restored.

I have some elevation changes on the property, about 60' overall. In the middle I have a creek going across it. Thus I'll need to put in a small bridge across the creek to get to the back of my property or drive down and around the road (will do that to start). As my primary use is mowing, horse property maintenance (no more than 10 horse and maybe a few head of cattle), and hunting support I think I am fine in the Compact tractor size with a competent loader.

In looking at the conditions I think a Cab would be nice, but that tends to push me into much more expensive category.

Budget is as everyone else, not unlimited.

I have experience operating most anything Class 1-6, race cars, bikes, ATV's, UTV's, and skidsteers. Never driven a tractor actually.

Planning to pull the trigger and reporting on findings throughout this process, I think I'll need something by the end of February/beginning of March.

I seem to have every possible dealer within a reasonable drive, some are closer (20 miles) than others (70 miles), but I am willing to drive if it saves me substantially as I am very handy/ I've just never owned a tractor (or a property this big).

I've attached an aerial shot to really show what I am working with. Fence is all around most of the property (blue), and the orange represents the pasture splits. The "side pasture" has the mouse arrow on it, Orange and "up" on the picture is all fenced in.

Red square and circle are future barn and riding area's, probably not to scale as I put this together quick.

I think I need:
4WD
>20 HP
Front End Loader
Ability to drag at least a 5' brush hog
Ability to use a disc harrow

Recommendations?

 

[jeff9366]

Calculate how much time you want to spend mowing and we will tell you how much PTO horsepower is required. Twenty acres is a lot of mowing.

LINK: Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour





Are you retired so you can peck at your tasks as weather and energy permits, or will you have to do everything during weekends and work breaks?

Recently bought a 21 acre Hobby Farm/Ranch in East Texas, Elkhart, Grapeland area.

Your LOCATION should be part of your T-B-N PROFILE.

 

[jeff9366]

Dealing with round bales will determine how much bare tractor weight you need.

Round bales vary from 800 pounds to 1,400 pounds. What do round bales weigh in your area?

Do you want to move round bales a few inches off the ground or do you need to lift them to stack them or unload a trailer?

If you just need to move DRY round bales a few inches off the ground a Three Point Hitch mounted bale spear mounted on a 2,700 - 4,000 pound tractor may suffice on level ground. The rear of a tractor is designed to support heavier loads than the front. Tractors in this weight range produce 25 to 60 gross engine horsepower.

If you need to lift round bales from a trailer or stack round bales in storage using the Loader you will need a 5,000 pound tractor to do so safely. You will also need considerable Three Point Hitch counterbalance weight to keep the tractor's rear wheels on the ground. Tractors weighing 5,000 pounds bare produce 50 horsepower and up.

A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor will not fit in a garage with an 84" header.

As my primary use is mowing, horse property maintenance for ~~ 10 horses ~~ and a few cattle I think I am fine in the Compact tractor class with a competent loader.

I would add periodic pasture aeration to your list of farm duties. PHOTOS.


OTHER'S VIEWS: Tractor for round hay bales - Google Search

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Kubota MX series walk around and features by Messicks. | MX48 MX52 MX58 - YouTube

Kubota MX Series VS. Kubota M Series - YouTube









The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.

Heavier tractors are constructed on larger frames and longer wheelbases. Heavier tractors are built with thicker steel to withstand greater stress. Heavier tractors have larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter wheels/tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Large wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less bucking and less operator disturbance.

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second and (narrowly) rear wheel ballast third.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after seven years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

 

[Diggin It]

Location isn't required, but may help in some cases.

My 25Hp has a 48" limit on rotary cutters. If you want a larger cutter, you'll need a bigger machine.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Oh another chance to spend OPM....!!!!:thumbsup::cool2:

Love the proprty lay out nice!!!!
Gonnah start with the NX5010HST (see: The NX5H Utility Tractor | Kioti Tractors) OR DK531SE HST | Kioti Tractors
The DK series.
The PTO will handle 6 or 7 foot cutter so You can spend more time on other projects.
Grapple for all those trees, hay spear for round bales no problemo.
Would NOT recommend the CK series. The utility frame is heavier and puts the work from tire to ground very well.
Congrats on the property.
Closest dealer i could find is in Lufkin.
Man if you were closer, Id take a 12 pack of Shiner help yah go window shopping.....lol....
Here are a couple of clips for our shopping enjoyment.
Kioti Tractors vs Hay Bales - YouTube
New Holland vs Kioti. Facts are Facts - YouTube

Shopping is fun, buying can be fun especially with a few toys er ah implements, getting it home to start playing totally priceless...:thumbsup:

 

[Geotech]

If you get something big enough to handle big round bales it will handle everything else you've listed (except maybe the creek crossing) and be too big to fine mow the lawn. Think Kubota L4701 or similar from other brands. If you have the smaller round bales then you could get a Kubota L series size tractor and pick HP accordingly. The Deere 30XXE series are probably too light.

 

[jeff9366]

Here are tractors near zip code 75839 for sale on eBay:

Tractor -Lawn -truck in Business and Industrial Supplies | eBay



This Kubota L4400 will power a 5' heavy duty (1,000 pound) Bush Hog in brush or a 6' medium duty (750 pound) Bush Hog in long grass:

KUBOTA L44 TRACTOR LOADER, OPEN ROPS, LA73 LOADER, 4X4, CANPOY, 43HP! | eBay

With ample ballast, Loader will pick up about 1,300 pound payload, allowing for weight of the bale spear, but this tractor will be dangerously unstable with a 1,300 pound payload lifted higher than 30".

Folded ROPS height with R4/industrial tires: 74"

VIDEOS: tractor kubota l44 - YouTube


In many agricultural states tractors are sales tax exempt. Research Texas.





Kubota L4400

2004 - 2010 Standard L Series
Compact Utility tractor
Previous model: Kubota L4300
Next model: Kubota L4600
Series back: Kubota L3400

Manufacturer: Kubota
Original price (USD): $13,916 (2011)

Variants:
L4400F: 2WD gear
L4400DT: 4WD clutch & gear
L4400HST: 4WD hydro

Kubota L4400 Engine:
Kubota 2.2L 4-cyl diesel
Kubota L4400 Power:
Engine (gross): 45.3 hp [33.8 kW]
Engine (net): 43 hp [32.1 kW]
PTO (claimed): 37.5 hp [28.0 kW]


Capacity:
Fuel: 11.3 gal [42.8 L]
Hydraulic system: 10.6 gal [40.1 L] (gear)
11.9 gal [45.0 L] (hydro)

3-Point Hitch:
Rear Type: I
Rear lift (at ends): 2,870 lbs [1301 kg]
Rear lift (at 24"/610mm): 2,310 lbs [1047 kg]

Power Take-off (PTO):
Rear PTO: independent
Rear RPM: 540 (1.375)
Engine RPM: 540@2475

Dimensions & Tires:
Wheelbase: 72.8 inches [184 cm] (2WD)
72.6 inches [184 cm] (4WD)
Weight: 3153 to 3307 pounds
Front tire: 7.5L-15
Rear tire: 14.9-24 (2WD)

Kubota L4400 attachments:
front-end loader
backhoe

Mechanical:
Chassis: 4x2 2WD
4x4 MFWD 4WD optional
Differential lock: rear standard
Steering: hydrostatic power steering
Brakes: wet disc
Cab: Foldable two-post ROPS. Sunshade optional.

Hydraulics:
Type: open center
Capacity: 10.6 gal [40.1 L] (gear)
11.9 gal [45.0 L] (hydro)
Valves: 0 to 3
Pump flow: 8.4 gpm [31.8 lpm]
Total flow: 13.5 gpm [51.1 lpm]
Steering flow: 5.1 gpm [19.3 lpm]

Page information:
Last update: March 25, 2012
Copyright: Copyright 2016 TractorData LLC
Contact: Peter@TractorData.com

 

[4570Man]

Thanks. Nobody else could use google or another search engine of choice.

 

[sd455dan]

I agree with Jeff especially if the bales are over 1000lbs.
A 50 hp tractor and imo (utility) tractor is where i would start .
Regardless of how they mow... they tend to ride better with the larger tires /weight and also equipped with air or at a minimum spring suspension seat.
Lots of stability and loader lift capability.


New or used

Budget?

RK 55 which is a Cut sized 55 HP tractor that may fit the bill in a smaller and (affordable ) for new package as would some other CUTs like the Kioti mentioned or maybe a Branson in the heavier framed models

 

[ericm979]

How wet do the lawns get? In the spring when the grass is growing mine's wet enough that my tractor will leave ruts. I mow the lawn with an inexpensive riding mower. But I have 1/3 acre of lawn not 1 3/4. Zero turns don't handle slopes well.

R4 tires will dent the lawn less than R1 ag tires. These days R4s are most common but on some brands (Kubota) they're an extra cost item.

A utility tractor is unlikely to have the mid PTO and brackets that you need for a mid mount mower. You can get rear finish mowers for the 3pt.

The general rule of thumb for rotary and flail size is 5 hp per foot. A flail mower will chop the material up rather than leaving windrows like a rotary. They cost more and require more maintenance.

 

[Jchonline]

If we are talking horses only, do you need larger round bales or can you get by with squares? I am a cow guy, but my father always told me not to feed the horses what you feed the cows. Horses need higher quality grass. We currently lease our 100 acre hay meadow for square bales for horses..it is all coastal no weeds.

10 acres of pasture isn稚 going to support many cows. They will eat it down to nothing, then after a year or two the grass wont grow well and weeds will set in (assuming you wont be rotating them to separate pastures). At least this is how it usually goes in East TX. So you will pretty much be feeding them all year with hay (expensive if you have many).

Of course your decision, but I would skip the cows unless you have an adjacent property you plan on purchasing.

Let us know what you think about the cows.

 

[Turbys_1700]

How much is your budget? You need a range and then go from there. IMHO you need a 30 to 50 HP large compact or 50 HP utility tractor that will handle at least a 6 foot rotary cutter. If you step up to an 8 or 10 footer the price increase is dramatic over a 6 footer due to dual gearboxes and additional drive line components. You are looking at 25K-30K.

Don't know the dealer situation in your area but Kubota, Deere, New Holland, Kioti, LS, Mahindra, Massey...all are good. What ever you get I would recommend extendable lower arms and the ability to lift the three point from the rear of the tractor. It will save you a lot of time hooking up implements and is worth the price.

You should either get a shuttle shift or hydrostatic drive transmission. If you go shuttle get the electronic if possible. It typically has a wet clutch and extends the clutch life.

R4 tires are a good compromise if finish mowing. If your lawn is immaculate a lighter weight option may be better but if lifting round bales of 1K you need a tractor to weigh at least 4K IMHO. Not too difficult if your rears are loaded and you are looking at a large compact or small utility sized unit.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[niterydr]

Great advise so far!
I've updated my location in my profile as I am in Elkhart, TX
Upon further eval I'll probably be mowing 8-10 acres total most of the time, I was a little off on my original estimates. Ideally this takes me 2-3 hours as I am not retired.
Round bales is what our horses are currently on in Minnesota. I've got squares stacked and ready for the first month but I would like the factor in the ability to move round bales. Running them on spear on the rear is okay, I do not plan on stacking them at this time. Locals told me rounds are around 1000lbs most of the time.

Not sure how wet it gets in the spring but my lawn and the pastures aren't very thick.

Cows we would have no more than 2 and would expect to feed them. It's a "maybe" at this point.

I think my nearest Massey dealer and Kubota dealers are in *********. Branson dealers seem to be a good 60 miles. Crockett also has various tractor dealers. I was originally thinking I need something heavier and in the 30-40hp range.

Price is tba. Will probably go new and finance it, buy it once and try to get a few decades out of it. I maintain my equipment very well and take pride in that.

Thank you for all the advice so far.

 

[shooterdon]

Look at mowing as finish and rough. A tractor large enough to handle bales is not a good choice for finish mowing in all conditions. Weight is your friend most of time except when finish mowing.

I have a 60” mid mount mower that came with my machine that I do not use. I have about 1 1/2 acres of lawn grass and mow with a 48” riding mower....takes about 90 minutes. Plan on getting a zero turn eventually.

Do not get a compromise machine. Get one that will do the heavy work safely.

 

[jeff9366]

Upon further eval I'll probably be mowing 8-10 acres total most of the time, I was a little off on my original estimates. Ideally this takes me 2-3 hours as I am not retired.

If you use the mowing calculator in Post #2, assume a 72" Bush Hog and a mowing speed of 4 m.p.h. you will find you can mow 3.2 acres per hour. Eight acres = 2.5 hours, ten acres = 3.1 hours.

Long grass will take longer.

I would like to factor in the ability to move round bales. Moving round bales on spear on the rear is okay, I do not plan on stacking them at this time. Locals told me rounds are around 1000lbs most of the time.

In an economy tractor a Kubota L3901 should meet your needs.
2,800 pounds bare tractor / 37.5 horsepower.

Consider the used Kubota L4400 in Post #7.
3,100 pounds bare tractor / 45 horsepower.


In a heavier tractor with a commodious open operating station and deLuxe features a Kubota L3560 "Grand L" would be nirvana. Rear wheel/tire spreads are especially flexible on a Grand L; important on your slopes. Also relatively quiet.
3,500 pounds bare tractor / 37 horsepower


VIDEOS: Kubota Standard L Series VS. Grand L Series - YouTube

Kubota HST Plus Transmission Features - YouTube




Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than level land operation. Heavier tractors have adjustable rear wheel spreads; wide rear wheel spreads improve tractor stability more than any other variable.

Four wheel drive is essential on hillsides. Four wheel drive supplies increased traction and braking. When descending slopes 4-WD augments rear brakes as tractor weight shifts forward, decreasing rear tire grip.

Compact tractors optimized for hill work have liquid installed in the rear tires rather than air. "Loaded" tires are filled 50% to 75% with liquid, which lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity, increasing rollover resistance. "Loading" two compact tractor rear tires will increase tractor weight 300 pounds to 800 pounds over weight of identical two tires inflated with air. Some prefer rear wheels ballasted with iron wheel weights rather than tire liquids.

MORE: Comparing Types of Liquid Tire Ballast | OrangeTractorTalks

6 Reasons to Liquid Ballast your Kubota’s Tires | OrangeTractorTalks

 

[Jchonline]

We get bales over 1500 lbs. Carefully select the source, and we see many that baling thistle, bahaya, and other weeds and call it hay.


You dont have a ton of mowing to do, but as you know it gets really hot and dry down in TX. Consider the cab carefully. You just wont want to get out and do anything in the heat. Mowing creates crazy amounts of dust down South; you dont want to breathe it.

When I started shopping for my father’s tractor, this is the list I put together. Our place is a bit West of Athens...which is North of your place.

1. Pineco - Mahindra
2. Smith and Sons - Massey Ferguson
3. Athens tractor - Kubota
4. Nortex tractor - new holland and Mahindra
5. Lowe tractor - Kubota
6. United ag and turf - Deere
7. McKinley farms - used Deere and Kubota
8. Big Tex - Branson
9. VN tractors - TYM
10. Deen Kubota
11. Alba Pittsburg tractor Kubota
12. Sandy land equipment-Ls tractor

As you can see, lots of orange in the area. United Ag is a nice dealership, my folks have their ZT serviced there. They were just purchased by a larger chain (Deere is pushing this restructuring), but still have a nice small town feel.

I was also in Athens Tractor, very nice dealership. Sales was great to work with. (Former Navy guy if I recall). We haven’t decide on a machine yet, so I dont have that experience to share. They have a ton of tractors on the lot, which is a good sign.

 

[Jchonline]

Wet? That probably isn’t going to be much of a problem in that area of TX! It is going to mostly be dry climate. Still decent humidity, but hot and not much rain. Soil will likely be sandy loam for the most part but it might be a bit different where you are.

So back to the tractor discussion...you are going to want 2 machines. One for mowing the “yard” and another for farm stuff (ie mowing pasture, moving bales, etc).

For the yard, lots of options with the ZT always being king. We have 1 ZT and 4 JD riders. After the ZT was purchased the riders just sit. We sold 1 and will probably get rid of at least 3 more soon. Just be sure the ZT will fit through any gates you have. ZTs are expensive...super expensive. We have a friend that just dropped $15k on a Scag..ugh no thanks!

The grand L series does have a belly mower option (at least they did in the 40 series) but it required special tires/rims to lower the clearance for the mower to fit. This is probably not a good option for a tractor being used for farming tasks as well. This is why I would recommend something separate for the yard. A Rotary cutter (ie bush hog) for the farm tractor seems like a good option. They work well in TX.

Keep in mind when I say Grand L, I dont mean you need a Kubota. Just find a comparably capable tractor in the other brands if that suits your needs. Most important are weight and HP for that initial comparison.
In JD this would be a 4 series machine. In Massey it would be a 17 series I believe.

So if we are splitting the finish mowing into a yard type machine, we can focus on the farming tasks.

Jeff is right, you do want some weight, even if on the rear 3 PT. For 20 acres I would be looking in the L or Grand L size. L is significantly cheaper, but also lighter and less featured. I like the L3901 for a budget option in the Kubota line. The Grand L is an awesome machine, much heavier built and amazing features. The HST plus is hard to beat if you want a hydrostatic transmission. You can also get these in a glide shift or synchronized transmission. I believe the L is a hydro shuttle.


For elevation...tractors dont like to be in side hills. You can get wheel spacers dealer installed in most cases..this helps a bunch. However you will always need to be mindful especially with heavy loads (ie hay or timber)

Most importantly, get out and demo/drive these machines. You will be a much better idea for size and how the tractor fits you.

 

[niterydr]

It does look like I will probably want 2 pieces of equipment, used lawn equipment and ideally new tractor.

Due to the rolling nature of some of my "hills" probably a riding tractor for the lawn and dog area and a tractor (most likely with a cab) for the fields/pasture work.

The hay work is intending to be on the flat part of the property. Barn will be "up" on the flat and that is the same elevation as the side lawn/driveway/road.

I really do appreciate all the advise and links provided thus far.

Here is another thought. Hay is very expensive here in Texas. I could set aside pasture land to grow Hay if I invested in the proper equipment up front.

 

[jeff9366]

You would need to find someone to process your hay on share.

Hay processing equipment is very expensive and not suitable for part-time agriculturists.

I am in Elkhart, TX
Upon further eval I'll probably be mowing 8-10 acres total most of the time, I was a little off on my original estimates.

Minimal acreage for a haymaker to visit repeatedly with implement changes in order to cut, dry and bale hay.

Anyone willing to process hay on 8-10 acres will want to work really fast. Your fields need to be LEVEL. Where I live in Florida hay fields are rolled and rolled until LEVEL. Cost to have fields leveled as a service is $170 per acre.

 

[Jchonline]

It does look like I will probably want 2 pieces of equipment, used lawn equipment and ideally new tractor.

Due to the rolling nature of some of my "hills" probably a riding tractor for the lawn and dog area and a tractor (most likely with a cab) for the fields/pasture work.

The hay work is intending to be on the flat part of the property. Barn will be "up" on the flat and that is the same elevation as the side lawn/driveway/road.

I really do appreciate all the advise and links provided thus far.

Here is another thought. Hay is very expensive here in Texas. I could set aside pasture land to grow Hay if I invested in the proper equipment up front.

Haying equipment is expensive, and you will need the right size tractor to run it. About the smallest I have seen is a M series Kubota or 5 series JD type machine with a smaller round bale. You will need to fertilize (expensive), harrow every now and then, cut, ted, bale, stack/transport. Lots of upfront costs. IMO not worth the expense for the # of acres you are talking about.
If you are made of money and just want to bale your own, then be sure you are looking at a full size utility tractor...about the smallest you can get to run a round baler (and they are smaller round bales at that). That said, if this is your dream then go for it!

At best you could get someone to bale it on the halves IMO. However, with so little a return you may have a hard time finding someone to come out and do it. Fertilizing, cutting, tedding, baling...lots of trips with heavy equipment for just a few acres.

I don't want to discourage you from trying, but it can be hard to find folks to do this. If you have a neighbor that already has all of the baling equipment, that is another good option.