Winches hydraulic winch idea

[Rustyiron]

I agree with you in use of the skidding winch you describe. Would be best for the job at hand for sure. Just not sure how you plan to mount it and make it easily removeable?? Show us some pics of your setup so we can get an idea of how to mount one??

He missed the point (of the OP). 3pt loggin winches are nice, but not what he wanted to do, and aparently is VERY proud of his tractor winch!:laughing: Rob, I'd have one in a NY minute, if I wasn't so cheap!:thumbsup:

 

[Sawyer Rob]

He missed the point (of the OP).

Actually, I didn't miss anything... The OP posted "his" idea and asked what "others" thought about it, and also asked for "their" idea's too. That's exactly what I answered and then followed up with more post commenting (answering) on others comments!

I stated what was the best tool for the job and it is. I stated that logging with a hydraulic recovery winch is slooooow and it is. Like I already posted, I've already done it that way as I was going up the ladder...

If you just have a few tree's to skid, it's not so bad, but if you are going to skid firewood and some logs on a regular basis, it REALLY get's old in a hurry, also, I'd never put a winch on my loaders arm's, that's just asking for trouble on hard pulls...

Anyway, it all boils down to how much wood you need to skid and how much work you are willing to do to get it done, heck I see people cut it where they find it, and pack it out piece by piece......

SR

 

[Rustyiron]

I'd never put a winch on my loaders arm's, that's just asking for trouble on hard pulls...

Anyway, it all boils down to how much wood you need to skid and how much work you are willing to do to get it done, heck I see people cut it where they find it, and pack it out piece by piece......

SR

Yeah, the loader arm mount would need to be used very, very carefully, in a straight ahead pull only.
What do (make) have for a winch? I would love to have one of the hyd. remote control models. As my friend pointed out to me, you could stand there with your saw, limbing and topping as the winch pulled the tree by you (under your control). The tajfun model is one that I'd like to see in person. I have seen their smaller non hyd. model up close and it looks very well built. I have a few Buds around here with old and older Farmi's and they just keep on going. Both of them have told me that "they don't know why the make them so fast". My speed comment was based on their comments, and working with them with they're winch. Sure you can slow down the pto to an idle, but then the tractor is not making much power. They don't like to slip the clutch constantly for a slower speed at a higher tractor pto speed. Winching pics SR!

 

[dbutler]

There is no question putting the winch on a QA plate off the loader arms could cause damage. Ill bet if I hooked it to a stump and pulled as hard as it could, it would tear the loader arms off. That was not my plan. There are many ways to misuse the loader or any other part of a machine that can cause damage or injury.
The relatively slow speed of the winch for this application is a bonus. It would allow for a slow enough pull to pay attention to the log being pulled and make adjustments as needed. For example if the log was to get hung up on a tree, stop and use a peavee to roll it to the side, or reposition the tractor. I think the idea of using a piece of grader blade or some type of anchor on the bottom of the QA plate is a good idea to transmit some of the pulling force to the ground.

As to the line or chain breaking, great point. I always put a heavy coat across the line to prevent eating the cable.

The L45 loader arms and frame are substantially heavier than those on a non TLB machine too. This is clear when you compare the capacities of it vs. similar size/ hp machines. Not to imply they cant be damaged, just that they are stonger than most.

The amount of time I would use this is limited, the clean up and firewood I do is not a ton, and just for my personal use, rather than a commercial use. I am never in a hurry to get this done and always take my time so I dont get hurt or damage equipment. Again, not to say things dont go wrong, but a little common sense goes a long way.

I still have not built this yet and am not positive I will. The comments and ideas are great and helpful in making a pro-con list for this project.

For those curious, the winch I am looking at is a Warn 30279. All the specs and line pull speeds are available there. After talking at length to a Warn hydraulic winch tech, this was his recommendation for the pressure and flow my L45 has.

 

[oosik]

Now that I have the tractor plumbed to handle my grapple I've though of a hydraulic winch. WARN makes very nice 6K, 8K and higher hydraulic winches.

I would mount the winch on the front of the tractor frame and not the FEL arms. I have over 45 years experience using a winch while 4-wheeling and know how fast you can damage things when the "pull" gets harder than anticipated. Better to mount the winch to the frame and be safe.

The Warn winch you are considering is a good choice. It will easily pull either logs or you out of a sticky situation and you will never have to worry about the electrical capabilities of you tractor.

So many do not understand how much more complicated and time consuming an electric winch is over a hydraulic one.

 

[k0ua]

I have heard that a "Wookie can pull the arms off of a Gondar." and I am betting a good winch can pull the arms off of a loader too!

Of course like anything else, common sense would go a long way.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Yeah, the loader arm mount would need to be used very, very carefully, in a straight ahead pull only.
What do (make) have for a winch? I would love to have one of the hyd. remote control models. As my friend pointed out to me, you could stand there with your saw, limbing and topping as the winch pulled the tree by you (under your control). The tajfun model is one that I'd like to see in person. I have seen their smaller non hyd. model up close and it looks very well built. I have a few Buds around here with old and older Farmi's and they just keep on going. Both of them have told me that "they don't know why the make them so fast". My speed comment was based on their comments, and working with them with they're winch. Sure you can slow down the pto to an idle, but then the tractor is not making much power. They don't like to slip the clutch constantly for a slower speed at a higher tractor pto speed. Winching pics SR!

Unless you are skidding out of a steep ravine or have some BIG logs, you don't need much HP for skidding. I run my winch at just above an idle most of the time, but on long easier skids, being able to ide up a bit for that faster speed is a HUGE time saver. Once you own one, you will see what I mean...

As for winch brands, I've looked at most of them and I chose a Wallenstein. It has more adjustability and features than the others and is cheaper to buy than most. Being Canadian made, on down the road, any factory support needed will be closer too! Wallenstein is a great company.

Wallenstein does have a wireless remote option too, but I haven't found it worth the money it cost, I'd chose to spend that money on getting one size bigger winch... Once you get use to winching you will figure out that if needed, how to winch the tree's out of tough places for limbing...

I've taken a few jobs with mine, but mostly I use it to skid out saw and firewood logs for myself... Some are smaller,

And some are bigger,

Even out of deep ravines,

You can skid out a pile of logs quite fast with it!

And with the std. adjustable trailer hitch on the winch, it's easy to hook up and pull your loads home,

It's a kick azz tool that really get's the job done!

SR

 

[dbutler]

Awesome pics of your winch and tractor. That is more than I can afford at this point.
The idea was suggested a few times to mount the winch to the front of the tractor. That offers some advantages for sure. The problem I have is clearance, the cross brace on my loader arms leave no where near the space I would need for the winch and fairlead so that option is out.
I am considering mounting the same hydraulic winch on a plate or frame that attaches to my 3pt quick hitch. The tractor has the optional 3 station remote valves installed. 2 two ports are used for the top n tilt. The third could be used for the winch (I think). I believe the gpm would be the same as the front aux ports at 11.8.
The rear mount is not ideal for me because it means I have to take the backhoe off but it does solve the potential issue of over stressing the loader arms.
If someone could chime in and convince my wife why we NEED Wallenstein, my problems would be solved, just a thought...

 

[jmc]

I'd approach my wife from the safety angle: A tried and true product vs an experimental prototype. Don't be afraid to play the "maimed in the woods by yourself" card.

Follow that with the "total cost" angle because you can sell that commercial winch when your done with it for a lot more than the experimental prototype. You don't have to disclose that you'll never be done with it.

Then finally, the more efficient commercial winch will give you more time to be fixing things around the house.

Good luck.

 

[dbutler]

Jmc, so far thats the best advice yet!

 

[ovrszd]

Now that I have the tractor plumbed to handle my grapple I've though of a hydraulic winch. WARN makes very nice 6K, 8K and higher hydraulic winches.

I would mount the winch on the front of the tractor frame and not the FEL arms. I have over 45 years experience using a winch while 4-wheeling and know how fast you can damage things when the "pull" gets harder than anticipated. Better to mount the winch to the frame and be safe.

The Warn winch you are considering is a good choice. It will easily pull either logs or you out of a sticky situation and you will never have to worry about the electrical capabilities of you tractor.

So many do not understand how much more complicated and time consuming an electric winch is over a hydraulic one.

Yep, well stated. I don't think my Kubota has enough space between the tractor frame and the FEL frame to mount a winch?? If so, it would be tight.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Jmc, so far thats the best advice yet!

Yes, absolutely good points he made. You could also add that with a proper forestry winch you all but eliminate any potential damage to the loader or tractor as many have mentioned. I'm sure a new winch is less than a new loader.

And if by chance something did go wrong with your self-built loader mounted one, odds are future plans to build yourself anything would get kyboshed pretty quick

 

[Rustyiron]

Re sale, at least around here, for 3 pt winches is high. Very old winches that are not abused sell quite well. I don't think your goin to "get hurt" if you decide to sell it in 5 years. But building your own custom rig is always a point of high satisfaction.

 

[ovrszd]

Re sale, at least around here, for 3 pt winches is high. Very old winches that are not abused sell quite well. I don't think your goin to "get hurt" if you decide to sell it in 5 years. But building your own custom rig is always a point of high satisfaction.

Yep, I agree. I've ran it over in my mind several times. I could definitely build a QA mounted winch that would put minimal stress on the FEL frame and could be attached/detached in a minute or less.

I see positives for all types that have been discussed here. I see just as many negatives for all types.

My Son works for a wrecker service company that has a hydraulic winch on a QA frame that they attached to a Bobcat CTL. I'll try to get some pictures of it in action. It's incredible what it will pull while putting little stress on the machine. Uses a spade system like I described earlier.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I have a pretty nice Braden recovery winch, here's a pict. of one "like it",

Mine doesn't have anything powering it right now, and I've seen them powered several different ways, including with hydraulics. I've been thinking for a long time about mounting it on the front of my loader tractor as there's been more than a few times I could have used one there.

IF I do it, i'll mount it to the loader frame mount, as mine runs all the way to the back of the tractor, so the winch load would be spread over the whole tractor... I'll also power it with a hydraulic motor with chain drive to the winch, so if I want, I can easily change the gearing. My winch already has a sprocket on the winch, so it will be easy to make up the rest...

SR

 

[ovrszd]

Since you don't list your tractors I have no idea what you would be mounting it to. There's no way it would fit on the front of my M9540 w/FEL.

Looks like a beast though!!!!

If you use hydraulics, and gear it so there's any line speed, aren't you also going to face the issue of it stalling?? Or if you gear it so it doesn't stall, isn't it going to be slow??

 

[Sawyer Rob]

What you say is true, but it's a "recovery" winch and that's what I would use it for, so slow isn't so big of a deal.... I need to take some measurements to see if I have room for one on my tractor too...

SR

 

[ovrszd]

How often do you need a "recovery" winch on your tractors??

 

[Threepoint]

FWIW, I just got an email from HF reminding me that their 12,000 lb "Badlands" electric winch is on sale for for $292.44 through the weekend. I'm sure they're amp-eating beasts, but they seem to get pretty good ratings. Realistically, I don't have a need for a winch on any of my vehicles or tractors. But at that price, I still have to lie down until the feeling passes! :laughing:

 

[ovrszd]

FWIW, I just got an email from HF reminding me that their 12,000 lb "Badlands" electric winch is on sale for for $292.44 through the weekend. I'm sure they're amp-eating beasts, but they seem to get pretty good ratings. Realistically, I don't have a need for a winch on any of my vehicles or tractors. But at that price, I still have to lie down until the feeling passes! :laughing:

I hear ya. I 4-wheel with a lot of guys. Some have bought "offbrand" lowbuck winches. They work fine for a short, self recovery pull. They are extremely slow and as you said, take a LOT of amps to run. For some reason when someone is stuck they always want me to hook them with my Warn 9.5TI. :confused3:

When they comment on it's speed and efficiency I always say "that's what a thousand bucks will buy you". It cost $1300.