Winches hydraulic winch idea

[dbutler]

I will kOua, thanks for your help.

 

[CurtisC]

If you're intent on a winch addition, looks like you've got a lot of good feedback. I'm on a fairly sloped hillside and rarely can get to downed trees. I find the backhoe with a chain hook at the bucket works just fine in skidding what ever I'm after (mostly up) to the tractor. It can be a bit slow going as you have to re-extend boom and dipper and take out chain slack after each pull but it gets the job done. You also have the advantage of changing the angle of pull or applying some lift when you get caught on an obstruction. If you're a bit lazy like I am, you can just add a chain hook to chain end attached to bucket and avoid a welding job. Not as clever as using a turning block on the bucket and a rear wheel as the winch drum but lot less potential drama. Just a suggestion if you're looking for a simple way to skid with what you've got.

 

[dbutler]

Curtis, I often do exactly what you describe with the backhoe and it works great for the closer logs. My problems is with logs that are 75-100' away. With the amount of firewood and woods cleanup I do, the winch would be a real time saver. I typically have the grapple and backhoe on when I do firewood and cleaning. My thought is I would have QA plate with the winch mounted to it and simply carry it to my work area and put it on as needed. That would only take a minute or two to do.

You are right about lots of good feedback. The guys on this forum have so many good ideas. Some creative minds at work here for sure.

 

[My Hoe]

Subscribed. Very interesting thread.

 

[ovrszd]

Although I don't have a winch setup on any of my tractors, I use winches a lot. I use winches hard. Sometimes pulling loads that require a snatch block. Sometimes hanging on a winch cable in a situation that would have horrible consequences if it goes bad.

With all that claimer stuff out of the way let me say this. A 7500lb winch will tear the FEL completely off your tractor, destroying it in the process. Especially if you use the BH or tractor weight/traction (brakes locked) as an anchor. Do not do this!!!! But if you do, post pictures of the end result so others might learn from your mistakes.

If you go with the QA plate idea build an anchor spade into the plate. A piece of old road grader blade would work great. If you don't have that I've saw them made from 4x4" square tubing mounted vertically with the end cut and plated at a 45 degree angle.

Concept is you lower the FEL and if necessary put downward pressure forcing the anchor to dig into the ground. When you start pulling the load will all be dealt with at the QA plate and put minimal if any pressure on your FEL frame and mount brackets.

As to side pulls. You can't do a long pull at a side angle. It will "pile" all of the cable on one end of the spool and you'll quickly have a mess.

After addressing the logistical stresses of this setup I feel I must also put on my "Safety Police" hat for a moment. And let me say, anyone that pays any attention to my postings knows how much I resent the Safety Police. But. My biggest concern for your idea is this. The only way for you to run the winch is from the tractor seat or worse, standing beside the tractor. If things go bad, and at some point they will, you are going to eat the cable, hook, clevis, chain, and whatever else you have in the equation. You can add a cable weight which will help this, but it still makes me nervous. Throwing a heavy coat over the cable can also minimize the whiplash effect.

Remember, you will not know how much stress you are putting on all of the equipment involved until the winch hits it's max capacity and stops pulling. By then you have created a deadly and extremely damaging situation. Be careful out there!!!

Build what appears to be an overkill QA plate with self anchor and not have to build it again. Build a light, cheap, easy attachment and tear the snot out of it and your FEL. It's your choice. Post pics either way.

 

[oldnslo]

I have to agree with ovrszd, FEL are built for pushing & lifting not pulling. My dad ripped the ends off of the lift cylinders on a FEL while backing up trying to pull something.

 

[k0ua]

It's your choice. Post pics either way.

+1:thumbsup:

I think you better listen to Richard fellas.. he has "been there". BUT I for one am really looking forward to the pictures.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

You will VERY soon get sick of how sloooooooow the line speed is on hydraulic winches!!

It's not much better on electric winches... 100 feet out takes a long time to reel in when you are trying to get something done!

That's why a pto powered skidding winch is the only way to go for power and speed, plus they don't put any pulling strain on the 3 point arms...

SR

 

[ovrszd]

I agree that a hydraulic winch is slow.

I'll totally disagree on the electric winch part. My Warn 9500lb has a no load line speed of 67ft per minute. Anything under 6K of pull it will maintain 50ft per minute or more. When I'm hanging on the cable and get traction and jump forward the length of the buggy I don't hafta worry about running over the cable. It will outrun a PTO winch so bad it's not even a comparison.

As to strain. Whatever the winch is fastened to, regardless of winch type, will strain the attaching point. You can't get around that fact. That's why I suggest a spade on the QA bracket so that strain is transmitted straight to the ground and not to the FEL frame, 3pt arms or whatever else you fasten it to. It's transmitted to the ground.

The only advantage of a PTO winch over an electric is you don't have electric draw on the host vehicle. A PTO winch will run faster than a hydraulic, but it has a HUGE disadvantage because it has to be PTO connected to the host. That severely limits where it can be mounted and tends to make it a permanent attachment to the host.

I like his idea of using the 3rd function on the FEL. Makes it very simple to install/uninstall. Adds versatility. The QA plate could even be made to go on the 3pt too and use a rear remote valve. Just need to make sure that whatever houses the the winch has it's own anchor system.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Well, 50 0r 67fpm is pretty sloooooow for a skidding winch... Mine with the tractor at "idle" is 75 and at full throttle it's 175fpm!

SO, at a fast idle, you can get some work done, and you have a rope you pull to engage the winch, if you let up on the rope, the winch drum will slow down, so no need to worry about tough spots...

Also, keep in mind, a hydraulic winch drum speed is flow sensitive, so if you pump is smaller or lines smaller, it's going to run sloooower...

SR

 

[BobRip]

I agree that a hydraulic winch is slow.

I'll totally disagree on the electric winch part. My Warn 9500lb has a no load line speed of 67ft per minute. Anything under 6K of pull it will maintain 50ft per minute or more. When I'm hanging on the cable and get traction and jump forward the length of the buggy I don't hafta worry about running over the cable. It will outrun a PTO winch so bad it's not even a comparison.

As to strain. Whatever the winch is fastened to, regardless of winch type, will strain the attaching point. You can't get around that fact. That's why I suggest a spade on the QA bracket so that strain is transmitted straight to the ground and not to the FEL frame, 3pt arms or whatever else you fasten it to. It's transmitted to the ground.

The only advantage of a PTO winch over an electric is you don't have electric draw on the host vehicle. A PTO winch will run faster than a hydraulic, but it has a HUGE disadvantage because it has to be PTO connected to the host. That severely limits where it can be mounted and tends to make it a permanent attachment to the host.

I like his idea of using the 3rd function on the FEL. Makes it very simple to install/uninstall. Adds versatility. The QA plate could even be made to go on the 3pt too and use a rear remote valve. Just need to make sure that whatever houses the the winch has it's own anchor system.

Electric winches have a very limited duty cycle as I understand it. Not good in a skidding winch.

 

[k0ua]

Just need to make sure that whatever houses the the winch has it's own anchor system.

Are you saying it would kinda suck to tear off you loader mounting towers, or even worse snap their bolts in the transmission housing?:shocked:

 

[2458n]

I get a smile out of the hyd. winch being slow. Has anyone been around a tow truck. Hyd. is what you want for what your doing. Harbor Freight has their 12000 lb badland winch on sale this week at 307 dollars off. It will eat your electric. Your ssqh idea is fine ,even better if you have some way to dig in the ground. Yes there are all sorts of ways to bend stuff and get hit with flying cable, but I feel you know this.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I get a smile out of the hyd. winch being slow. Has anyone been around a tow truck.

You figure out how to get the SAME "hydraulic flow" out of a smaller tractors hydraulic pump as a tow truck has, and I'll be smiling right with you...

SR

 

[Rustyiron]

The Hyd. planetary Ramsey 8000# is 50 fpm at rated load. 1st. layer (I think) and require 5 to 15 gpm. AWDirect A5TB - 2015 - pg 243
I'm ok with just under a foot a second with all my rocks & stumps!
The 3 pt tractor winches are stupid fast. In any of my woods, at 150' fpm and up those speeds are going to break something after they hurt someone.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The Hyd. planetary Ramsey 8000# is 50 fpm at rated load. 1st. layer (I think)
The 3 pt tractor winches are stupid fast. In any of my woods, at 150' fpm and up those speeds are going to break something after they hurt someone.

Sooo, an electric or hydraulic winch is direct drive and 50 fpm, and my pto winch is 75 fpm (at it's slow speed) with a large smooth clutch to take shock loads and the pto winch is dangerous and too fast for your conditions??

I've winched in all kinds of terrain, from rocks and stumps, to up and down hill and about everything else, and I've yet to "break something OR hurt some one"!

I think you have ZERO time running a skidding winch or you would realize that it's very easy to adjust the line speed and control the load coming in with the clutch they have.

Then there's the ease and speed they let the cable back out, they are designed to let the cable pull back out very quickly and easily...

I don't care what you make or use, I was suggesting the "BEST tool for the job" you are about to do, perhaps saving you some aggravation down the road......as I already moved UP the ladder having logged with "make do" winch set up's, that make log retrieval more work than it needs to be...

SR

 

[ovrszd]

Well, 50 0r 67fpm is pretty sloooooow for a skidding winch... Mine with the tractor at "idle" is 75 and at full throttle it's 175fpm!

SO, at a fast idle, you can get some work done, and you have a rope you pull to engage the winch, if you let up on the rope, the winch drum will slow down, so no need to worry about tough spots...

Also, keep in mind, a hydraulic winch drum speed is flow sensitive, so if you pump is smaller or lines smaller, it's going to run sloooower...

SR

Cool!!!! So where and how would you mount that on a tractor so it is easily removeable??

 

[ovrszd]

Electric winches have a very limited duty cycle as I understand it. Not good in a skidding winch.

Yep, totally agree. Hydraulic is the OP's best choice for his described needs.

 

[ovrszd]

Are you saying it would kinda suck to tear off you loader mounting towers, or even worse snap their bolts in the transmission housing?:shocked:

Would that suck or what!!!!! You'd want to replay that last few seconds......

 

[ovrszd]

Sooo, an electric or hydraulic winch is direct drive and 50 fpm, and my pto winch is 75 fpm (at it's slow speed) with a large smooth clutch to take shock loads and the pto winch is dangerous and too fast for your conditions??

I've winched in all kinds of terrain, from rocks and stumps, to up and down hill and about everything else, and I've yet to "break something OR hurt some one"!

I think you have ZERO time running a skidding winch or you would realize that it's very easy to adjust the line speed and control the load coming in with the clutch they have.

Then there's the ease and speed they let the cable back out, they are designed to let the cable pull back out very quickly and easily...

I don't care what you make or use, I was suggesting the "BEST tool for the job" you are about to do, perhaps saving you some aggravation down the road......as I already moved UP the ladder having logged with "make do" winch set up's, that make log retrieval more work than it needs to be...

SR

I agree with you in use of the skidding winch you describe. Would be best for the job at hand for sure. Just not sure how you plan to mount it and make it easily removeable?? Show us some pics of your setup so we can get an idea of how to mount one??