Hydraulic winch build

[PreacherM]

I believe the RS series White motors are considered their light duty line.
At 293.07cc that would make it one of their 300 series motors.
I believe your flow rate is going to be a struggle utilizing that motor.

View attachment 4642758

We will find out. These winches are sold to be run off power steering pumps which are normally less than 4 gpm. I'm sure it'll be slow compared to a PTO winch.

 

[PreacherM]

I guess this thread should be in the hydraulic forum, but oh well.

This winch is rated as 1500psi max. How do I go about reducing the pressure but not flow? Will a crossover relief aka cushion valve accomplish this?

What is the danger of too much pressure? Blowing a seal in the motor? Stripping gears in the winch?

 

[mark in portugal]

You can add a PRV (pressure relief valve), or adjust the one that is already in your system.

That will reduce the max pressure to all implements though.
I did the opposite and increased my PRV around 20%.

What would happen; if the difference is small, 25%, nothing will happen. 25-50% probably nothing will happen but you never know, 50-100% over pressure, then you're really pushing your luck.
What would fail first is really down to the engineering of the thing. Generally, the safety factor of the mechanical parts should be at least 5, so the weak point is the hydraulic motor. Most likely the seal would fail first.

I have a hydraulic motor on my hedgecutter rated at 150 bar (2200psi); I have the PRV set at 225 (3250psi) and so far it's doing just fine.
Note that normal running pressure is only around 60 bar (900 psi), it only goes high briefly when it hits something tough, or stalls.



I recommend the installation of a pressure gauge. I don't know why they aren't standard.

 

[MossRoad]

Well I bought the winch. Pretty good deal for $95 I think. Cable looks very good. I removed the hydraulic lines and blew some dirt our with compressed air. Reattached the lines and was able to scrounge some fittings to hook it up to my 3rd function. I left one line off and flushed the motor into a jug until it looked like clean fluid. Then attached both hoses and voila! It works! The gear shift lever for high speed moves a little stiff, but a couple taps with a wrench made it engage. View attachment 4642750View attachment 4642751
I'm almost certain it's a Mile Marker 70 series based on the pics from this manual I found online. View attachment 4642753
If so, based on the motor size (17.9³ inch) it's probably a 10,000 lb.

$95 you can't go wrong.

 

[Barker806]

You can do a capstan winch, we did one on a compact tractor and it was really nice. Simple and if you use a hydro motor you can put a dead man foot peddle on it. I have seen the rope get wound around the drum and could be an issue. Just an idea that is low budget and seems to fit the compact tractors well. I have forestry winches and skidders, they all have their place. A small winch that can take a rope is fun. Dragging cable an chokers out through the woods gets old and your never going to pull hard enough to need that.
Just some food for thought. Build something and try it out ! That's the fun part.

 

[Rustyiron]

You can add a PRV (pressure relief valve), or adjust the one that is already in your system.

That will reduce the max pressure to all implements though.
I did the opposite and increased my PRV around 20%.

What would happen; if the difference is small, 25%, nothing will happen. 25-50% probably nothing will happen but you never know, 50-100% over pressure, then you're really pushing your luck.
What would fail first is really down to the engineering of the thing. Generally, the safety factor of the mechanical parts should be at least 5, so the weak point is the hydraulic motor. Most likely the seal would fail first.

I have a hydraulic motor on my hedgecutter rated at 150 bar (2200psi); I have the PRV set at 225 (3250psi) and so far it's doing just fine.
Note that normal running pressure is only around 60 bar (900 psi), it only goes high briefly when it hits something tough, or stalls.



I recommend the installation of a pressure gauge. I don't know why they aren't standard.

Doesn't the "work" or resistance of flow make the pressure?
I remember those Mile Marker power steering Winchester and iirc they were in the 12-15,000 pound rating. I was excited about them as I have only been disappointed with 12v electric winches, or at least one without a high output alternator and added battery to the vehicles system.
Wouldn't the OP have to use it under full loading to be concerned about over pressuring his motor? I'm sure with his minor firewood/light logging use can be considered very light duty for that winch as compared to vehicle recovery.
This was the winch that the US army decided to put on the Humv's.

 

[JimR]

Forestry winches for tractors are generally mechanically PTO powered so you don't have this risk. They are also engineered to work on the tractor's 3pt hitch and have a plate at the bottom that is intended to resist the pulling forces.

When you buy a tractor forestry winch, you're getting the entire system that's already engineered and built to do a specific job.

I resisted buying one, but now think I was short sighted not to have bought it long before now. If you have enough use for one, there's an argument to be made that you could be better off putting your money towards a tractor forestry PTO winch instead of trying to fabracadoodle one.

My thoughts exactly and why I bought one.

 

[walnutman]

And with any winching, there is that pesky cable.. when it snaps under tension it can really do some damage. That's why they do this..

And to help with anchor, the bottom acts as plow..

 

[Cdash]

A different consideration for you (and others)...., don't know what size tractor you have, but the tractors weight, holding power of the rear brakes and what you are parked on, is going to limit what you can pull to a number below the winch capacity anyway, unless you have a really big tractor.

If you have a smaller tractor, is it going to be able to provide enough resistance when parked to pull what you want to pull?

 

[JimR]

A different consideration for you (and others)...., don't know what size tractor you have, but the tractors weight, holding power of the rear brakes and what you are parked on, is going to limit what you can pull to a number below the winch capacity anyway, unless you have a really big tractor.

If you have a smaller tractor, is it going to be able to provide enough resistance when parked to pull what you want to pull?

First off, great deal on your winch. I hope that it works out well for you.

Here is the reason that I went with the Igland 4501 10K winch. That lower blade really digs into the ground. How to winch if the ground is frozen. Just find a stump or tree to back up to. My tractor weighs around 5000 pounds and easily pulled by my winch if not anchored properly. It is by far one of the best attachments that I have ever bought.

 

[johneking]

I found a hydraulic winch locally that I can purchase for cheap. Not sure on brand, but the motor is White made in US.

I'm thinking about building a log skidding winch. My question us how fast are these winches? Assuming it's a typical 9000 lb winch and my tractor puts out 4.3 gpm flow.

I also have access to a 12000lb electric winch, would this be a better option? I would use a deep cycle battery out of my boat. Would this be a better option than the hydraulic winch?

I can't justify 3-5k for a real logging winch. I'm well aware of those options.

The winch in the picture looks just like a "Mile Marker" that I bought several years ago and installed on my '98 Ford Ranger and used it a bunch in my asphalt business.
I did have to put a higher "pressure relief valve" in my power steering pump but other than that it worked fine.
It was slower than all of the Warn 6K ones, but also stronger -- Mile Marker rep came to town and had a "scale" on his truck. We hooked my receiver to a large oak tree and his measuring device to another tree. Straight line pull showed my winch doing over 12K pounds -- that is where we quit pulling!
Although I did like it -- I went back to Warn.
Caution -- the "off brands" you can get at Harbor Freight etc. won't hold up to regular use like log skidding.
I'd contact Mile Marker in FL and ask questions.

 

[851korho]

Hydraulic winch mounted on box blade has worked good for me.
Two speed, 10000lbs on lower speed.

 

[Todd727]

And with any winching, there is that pesky cable.. when it snaps under tension it can really do some damage. That's why they do this..

He can replace the steel with synthetic and use soft shackles. That will greatly mitigate this issue.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

This winch is rated as 1500psi max. How do I go about reducing the pressure but not flow? Will a crossover relief aka cushion valve accomplish this?

Since the winch is made to run off of a P/S pump, why not install one on the tractor so it uses it's own separate hydraulic system?

And as others have mentioned, a MileMarker can be very slow. I had one on a Jeep, but being used to Warn 8274s and their line speeds it came off, quickly.

Basically, I gave up on it before being done with tensioning its new cable.

 

[HAR]

Wish you the best, as it seems you have done your homework and literally have nothing to lose. IMHO, for $95 and a little effort, all you need to do is try it and see. No big loss if it doesn't and at least you have the learning curve to fall back on for the next iteration, if it comes to that. It will be interesting to follow this thread later for reports from the field.

 

[Jaygyver]

Well, if you really want a PTO one make it your self. Make it self contained.
Just get a 15 or 20 gal tank (basically to help keep the heat down) and you can buy comparable size pto pump from just about anyone. They do make a hyd radiator for the return line also.
This way you can run the winch motor at full cap and don't have to worry about overheating your tractor hyd or getting contamination into your system and having the tractor go down. If the winch system gets compromised then you still have the tractor available.

There are others on the forums that have done it for one reason or another. My 3pt backhoe came that way and works fine.

If your pulling one batch up then wrangling it for a bit then coming back for another one is one thing but if your going to pull up multiple logs one after the other in one session than that's another issue.

Just a thought.

 

[mark in portugal]

Doesn't the "work" or resistance of flow make the pressure?

Wouldn't the OP have to use it under full loading to be concerned about over pressuring his motor? I'm sure with his minor firewood/light logging use can be considered very light duty for that winch as compared to vehicle recovery.
This was the winch that the US army decided to put on the Humv's.

Yes; but it's practically inevitable that one day something will snag and the pressure will go to max; which is whatever the PRV is set to.

 

[PreacherM]

And with any winching, there is that pesky cable.. when it snaps under tension it can really do some damage. That's why they do this..
View attachment 4643701

And to help with anchor, the bottom acts as plow..
View attachment 4643702

I'm currently drafting some plans for a 3pt winch similar to tge Mechmaxx above. It will have a plate to anchor the tractor while pulling.

I will not be adding a safety shield to the winch initially. I may attach something to the ROPS. I will make sure not to operate it from the seat unless I have that in place. I am aware of the dangers. The remote lever I'll be using is an additional spool mounted beside my loader valve. (I put it there a couple years ago for my 3rd function.) With my smaller tractor I can stand beside and just ahead of the rear tire to reach this lever.

I'm thinking for starters I will just lower the pressure relief on this valve to 1500psi. I don't currently operate any other hydraulic implements except a snowplow, but that doesn't need more than 1500psi either.

I'll continue to follow this thread, but will probably start another in the build it yourself section once I start building it.

 

[WranglerX]

Well, if you really want a PTO one make it your self. Make it self contained.
Just get a 15 or 20 gal tank (basically to help keep the heat down) and you can buy comparable size pto pump from just about anyone. They do make a hyd radiator for the return line also.
This way you can run the winch motor at full cap and don't have to worry about overheating your tractor hyd or getting contamination into your system and having the tractor go down. If the winch system gets compromised then you still have the tractor available.

There are others on the forums that have done it for one reason or another. My 3pt backhoe came that way and works fine.

If your pulling one batch up then wrangling it for a bit then coming back for another one is one thing but if your going to pull up multiple logs one after the other in one session than that's another issue.

Just a thought.

Wondered how long thread would go before someone suggested this......