Grapple --- 1 Lid or 2

[Hilbilly]

Once I get started I will take pics to post on here.

I use my bucket a lot. Used it today to move more snow. The grapple wouldn't be much use for that.:laughing:

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks so much for all the help and the pics are great. You guys have convinced me. I'm going with a 48" single lid grapple.

IslandTractor; those pics are great. The only dimension missing for me was the length of the tines but I think they are 24" based on some info I gleaned from one of the other pics. The good news for me is that the tines are 3" deep, which is the same as the steel I picked up today. I won't have a curve on my tines but if I find that they would be a big help, then I will weld on some extra pieces to the ends later on.

Really looking forward to this build. Off to the doc's tomorrow morning then back to work on my mock up with the new info you all provided. Hopefully I can get started on some cutting tomorrow. I know it's going to take me a while because I always over think everything. Plus my oxy/acet cutting skills suck. At least this will give me some much needed practice.:laughing:

I'd measure the bottom tines for you but the tractor is 80 miles away and there is too much snow to get to it these days. 24" sounds a bit short to me but I'll post some other photos from the side and you can interpolate the length from other documented dimensions. Maybe they are just 24" but if you asked me to guess, without measuring, I'd have thought maybe 30"

The curve in the bottom tines is useful for getting under roots and then curling to rip them out. It naturally forces the root back towards the tractor where the power of the loader is greatest. I don't doubt that straighter tines would also work but other than simplicity of fabrication, I've never understood any real benefit of straight bottom tines. If making a DYI grapple and working from cut stock, obviously straight would be easier to fabricate. With the wonders of CAD/water cutting these days, I'm sure most "real" manufacturers start with 4x8 sheets of 3/8 steel and could efficiently cut out any curved shape they wanted with very little waste.

 

[IslandTractor]

hilbilly, you won't be disappointed! Please keep us informed with progress reports. The grapple is my most used implement. I never use my bucket.

Hey, let's not exaggerate. I recall using my bucket at least twice last season!

 

[Hilbilly]

Hey guys, I was just reading the EA Wicked Grapple thread and seen lots of people want one with a larger opening, similar to the WR Long OBG-2 grapple. Since my plans are only to move brush I thought this would be perfect for me. Anyone know the dimensions of the OBG-2. ie length of tines from front face of frame to end of tine and the frame height?

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey guys, I was just reading the EA Wicked Grapple thread and seen lots of people want one with a larger opening, similar to the WR Long OBG-2 grapple. Since my plans are only to move brush I thought this would be perfect for me. Anyone know the dimensions of the OBG-2. ie length of tines from front face of frame to end of tine and the frame height?

The grapple I have opens to something between 42-46" (I measured but forget exactly). Definitely want something that opens at least 40" for brush and wider is better. Brush is compressible so being able to open really wide and then clamp will always get you a bigger load than with a smaller opening grapple. Lift capacity is never an issue with brush, load capacity is.

 

[Hilbilly]

The grapple I have opens to something between 42-46" (I measured but forget exactly). Definitely want something that opens at least 40" for brush and wider is better. Brush is compressible so being able to open really wide and then clamp will always get you a bigger load than with a smaller opening grapple. Lift capacity is never an issue with brush, load capacity is.

Agreed!!! Since that will be my primary use I want to be able to grab a lot of brush to reduce the amount of trips I have to make. I don't plan on using the grapple for digging anything, as I have a small excavator with a hydraulic thumb for that. I use that for gathering brush now, but it doesn't move as fast as the tractor.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I don't doubt that straighter tines would also work but other than simplicity of fabrication, I've never understood any real benefit of straight bottom tines. If making a DYI grapple and working from cut stock, obviously straight would be easier to fabricate.

I'm hoping to build one this summer and fully plan on a straight bottom. Personally, I don't understand the point of the curved bottoms unless you do a lot of digging with it. As I expect most of my use to be picking up loose things sitting on the surface, the straight bottom seems like it will be easier to skim across the surface without digging in as much. I've got the BH77 for when I need to dig out roots & rocks. I'll be working from sheet stock making the cuts with a plasma cutter. To me, a cross between the front half of the EA Wicked and the heel of the ANBO would be the ideal design.

Mind you, the only experience I've got using a grapple was once 8 yrs ago on a rental skid steer with a scrap grapple tearing down an old log barn. That and looking at pics of all you guys that actually have them....

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm hoping to build one this summer and fully plan on a straight bottom. Personally, I don't understand the point of the curved bottoms unless you do a lot of digging with it. As I expect most of my use to be picking up loose things sitting on the surface, the straight bottom seems like it will be easier to skim across the surface without digging in as much. I've got the BH77 for when I need to dig out roots & rocks. I'll be working from sheet stock making the cuts with a plasma cutter. To me, a cross between the front half of the EA Wicked and the heel of the ANBO would be the ideal design.

Mind you, the only experience I've got using a grapple was once 8 yrs ago on a rental skid steer with a scrap grapple tearing down an old log barn. That and looking at pics of all you guys that actually have them....

I know is seems like a grapple would be the perfect tool to "skim across the surface" and pick up loose stuff, but in my experience it doesn't work well for that unless you are talking about fairly bulky items like downed tree branches. Any small stuff that is laying flat on the ground is very difficult to scoop up with a grapple without digging into the soil/turf. From the operator's seat, you cannot easily judge exactly the height off the ground of the grapple lower tines and if you are too high you'll miss the object or if too low you'll plow into the ground. I find small debris collection with a grapple to be pretty inefficient myself and I've tried hard. Indeed, when I have a large area to clean up these days, I put a rake on the 3pt and use it to create piles. The grapple does a fine job of collecting the piles.

I'm not a fan of claw type grapples generally but this is one type of task that the claw would IMO work better. The point is that a claw grapple has relatively a short vertical "lower" jaw that can be lowered to just above ground level and then driven forward to push debris in front. The vertical nature of the lower jaw means that there is less of a tendency to dig in. Essentially a claw grapple allows you to "rake" the debris forward and then clamp with the top. I cannot claim to have tried that but knowing how the open bottom style grapple works I'm pretty sure the claw would be better as a skimming device.

 

[rd_macgregor]

My grapple looks identical to HCJtractor's. I bought it just as Markham was rolling over to Gator, and it has a Gator decal on it. I also got it with 1/2" steel and the extra filler tines. I have managed to twist the grapple a little bit by clamping on and hauling a very heavy, asymmetrical load, but it still works fine. It opens pretty wide, but not quite wide enough to grab a big round hay bale...though, if it isn't too tightly-rolled, I can sometimes manage to crush down on it enough to get a hold between the grapple tines and the rake teeth.
Bob

 

[Hilbilly]

My grapple looks identical to HCJtractor's. I bought it just as Markham was rolling over to Gator, and it has a Gator decal on it. I also got it with 1/2" steel and the extra filler tines. I have managed to twist the grapple a little bit by clamping on and hauling a very heavy, asymmetrical load, but it still works fine. It opens pretty wide, but not quite wide enough to grab a big round hay bale...though, if it isn't too tightly-rolled, I can sometimes manage to crush down on it enough to get a hold between the grapple tines and the rake teeth.
Bob

Did you bend the lid, bottom tines or the frame? Now I'm back to thinking 2 clamps would be better.:duh:

 

[Xfaxman]

I know is seems like a grapple would be the perfect tool to "skim across the surface" and pick up loose stuff, but in my experience it doesn't work well for that unless you are talking about fairly bulky items like downed tree branches. Any small stuff that is laying flat on the ground is very difficult to scoop up with a grapple without digging into the soil/turf. From the operator's seat, you cannot easily judge exactly the height off the ground of the grapple lower tines and if you are too high you'll miss the object or if too low you'll plow into the ground. I find small debris collection with a grapple to be pretty inefficient myself and I've tried hard. Indeed, when I have a large area to clean up these days, I put a rake on the 3pt and use it to create piles. The grapple does a fine job of collecting the piles.
-------------------------

For small debris collection my grapple not fast, but very efficient, picks up every thing it touches! :thumbsup:

 

[Hilbilly]

Xfaxman, based on your reply I'm guessing your vote is for a single grapple.:thumbsup:

 

[Xfaxman]

Xfaxman, based on your reply I'm guessing your vote is for a single grapple.:thumbsup:

No, two, one in each hand. :laughing:

 

[HCJtractor]

Wow. That's really high tech!!! Simple, cheap, effective!

As far as bending a grapple, I doubt the numbers of hydraulic thumbs would really matter. I think bending one would be more likely to occur with simple biting off more than it could chew, in terms of weight. Those big rocks look impressive, but I think it's pushing the limit and risking damage. Keeping the load centered certainly helps. And keeping the load low. Or not picking up a heavy 30 foot log that could apply torque. But the number of thumbs has little effect on that.

That being said, I abuse mine. My buddy who uses it thinks it's a bulldozer! But it's stout. Other than minor bends in the spacers, we've never done any significant damage. The lift capacity of the FEL limits the load. If it's too heavy, it just won't lift. What we have damaged with grapple use is the tractor grill, radiator or fan. And the hydraulic hoses are prone to snag, so protect them in sleeves and tie them up good. And I think having a grapple really shortens the tractor clutch life, especially if you uproot bigger trees. And I have also bent a FEL hydraulic cylinder when a big log slid in between it and the frame and wasn't noticed. You'll find that it's hard to see what you're doing when grappling big piles of debris. Your vision is limited and the limbs, logs etc can poke places you don't expect or see. I really don't worry about bending the grapple itself.

 

[IslandTractor]

Did you bend the lid, bottom tines or the frame? Now I'm back to thinking 2 clamps would be better.:duh:

Two lids does not stop an oversized asymmetric load from twisting a grapple. The twisting force acts on the bottom of the grapple as well as on the lid. We all have loaders that can lift tremendous loads compared to what even a gang of four healthy guys can lift. It is easy to ignore basic rules of physics regarding the amount of torque that a long heavy tree can exert when lifted off the ground and moved. Just the weight of the tree swinging about due to the tractor wheels hitting bumps or dips in a field can exert tremendous loads. When you lift a tree but leave branches still in contact with earth and then drive off, you will indeed move the tree but those dragging branches are at the far end of a lever arm and that resistance to your forward motion ends up creating a tremendous twisting force on the FEL/grapple.

 

[IslandTractor]

For small debris collection my grapple not fast, but very efficient, picks up every thing it touches! :thumbsup:

I like your system. It is more efficient than a hydraulic grapple for that purpose to be sure. How about adding a light duty rake to the front of the "dump truck" so you can drive around pushing stuff as you collect it and then lift the dump truck, pick up the collected bits and pieces, load them (from the seat of course!) and then lower the dump truck rake to continue.

I find that branches and other winter debris are typically scattered widely but there is no standard 3PT or FEL implement that really does an efficient job of collecting and moving the stuff. Your solution is about as good as I've seen.

 

[Xfaxman]

For small debris collection my grapple not fast, but very efficient, picks up every thing it touches! :thumbsup:

I like your system. It is more efficient than a hydraulic grapple for that purpose to be sure. How about adding a light duty rake to the front of the "dump truck" so you can drive around pushing stuff as you collect it and then lift the dump truck, pick up the collected bits and pieces, load them (from the seat of course!) and then lower the dump truck rake to continue.

I find that branches and other winter debris are typically scattered widely but there is no standard 3PT or FEL implement that really does an efficient job of collecting and moving the stuff. Your solution is about as good as I've seen.

Gee, I never thought about using both at the same time!

 

[Msamt]

Gee, I never thought about using both at the same time!
View attachment 410174

View attachment 410175

You make me want one of these, pretty cool tool.

 

[Xfaxman]

You make me want one of these, pretty cool tool.

Thanks, With the drive axle in front, fastened to the frame, it can lift more weight. It is not tipy, because the pivot is on the rear axle.

 

[IslandTractor]

Now we're talking. The typical landscape rake tines are too tough to collect debris without tearing up turf however. Maybe if they could be mounted to some sort of softer spring they could work without digging into the ground.

I also run my landscape rake on a 3PT adapter on the FEL. Love it. I use that more than I do the rear mounted 3PT with the rake. It is much easier to do precision work and much easier to maneuver and adjust too. Photos show it mounted in the "push" position but I generally use it in the "pull" orientation. Great for clearing weeds against buildings or fences/walls.