pole barn designing 40x64ish

[LD1]

I am in the design phases of my next polebarn that I will likely start in the spring. Called a few places for quotes, and still waiting to hear back from some, bit so far it looks like I will be doing it myself to save some money. I was having them quote just a 40x64 shell, with one gable end left open. So just setting posts, trusses, and 3sides, labor alone was $6k on the cheapest quote.

So, have been doing some research and come up with more questions than answers.

1. Truss spacing. 4', 8',9', etc. It seems a lot of "kits"are using 9' oc posts and trusses. Seems like a waste of lumber using 10' girts and purlins just so the siding works out. What am I missing?

Other than that, the whole 4' vs 8' debate. I like the idea of 8' with a truss over each post and no need for a large header board. But on the other hand, I don't like purlins on end, and the larger spacing inside for liner panels and insulation.

2. Posts. Probably going 12' walls. 6x6 posts or 3 2x6's? Everyone says the laminated is stronger, and they are cheaper too.

3. Wall girts. I have always just nailed 2x4's on the outside and worried about finishing the inside later. But seen something different when searching. Using 2x6's laid flat in between the posts. Preps both the inside and outside at the same time. Of course it means you have to drill for wiring, but I liked the clean look and seems easier/quicker/cheaper. Has anyone done this?

4. Building size. The 40x64 isn't set in stone. Basically I am looking for something in the 2500sq ft range and looking to do it as economically as possible. Am considering 36x72 just because that works out well with 8' spacing and lumber on the sides and 12' on the ends and both directions work out well with 3'siding. (Makes no sense to me why siding is not 4' like all other sheathing?) Haven't figured cost yet, but if its cheaper, I'll go 36x72 vs 40x64. Or any other suggestions or compelling reasons to go a different size I am all ears.

Let's hear some thoughts. And pictures are always welcome.

 

[ace10]

Have you given thought to the prospect of getting 24'+ roof tins (depending on pitch and overhang) up on the roof?

Those trusses won't bring much joy, either.


That's my first thought.

 

[EddieWalker]

Six grand for labor doesn't sound too bad. Figure six guys working all week to get it done and they make a grand each for the week. Probably do it faster, but it's still not a bad price.

1. Metal comes in 3ft widths. I've never seen the 9ft spacing for posts, but my guess is it has something to do with the width of the metal. I like 8 foot spacing myself. Then I can go 16ft with my purlins and alternate posts where they end.

I like the large header board. It's not just nice for carrying the load of the truss that's resting on it, it also does a great job of holding the top of the posts together.

2. The debate over what to use with posts has to start with making sure you are comparing the same pressure treatment ratings. 6x6's have a higher level of treatment for in ground contact with soil. Standard treated 2x6s are only rated for above ground use and not to be on or in the soil. I've never seen treated 2x6's with the same rating as a 6x6 but others on here have said they have been able to find them. The strength comparison is a moot point. Both are more then strong enough for the job and you're really just debating on how much overkill you are getting. The advantage to using the 2x6 method is you don't have to cut and notch the posts. For some, that's faster and easier for them. I'm guessing they are not used to doing that type of work and just cutting that 2x6 before laminating it to the other boards is a lot easier for them.

3. I agree that framing out the walls with 2x6's give you a much cleaner and nicer finish. The only concern is that you have to have support under that wall. I'd pour a concrete footing, but I have seen where they lay a treated 6x6 on the dirt and use that as the footing under the sill plate.

4. The cost of the trusses and getting them into place is probably the biggest issue with making it wider over making it longer. Same thing goes with spacing them. At 4ft, you need a lot of trusses, but at 8 or 12 feet, you save a bunch of money on trusses but then you have to go to purlins on edge for you roof. I like mine at 4 feet, but there is no best way, just what you prefer and you are willing to spend.

If you are planning on leaving one end wide open, you really need to take into account how weak that will make the building. Corners are everything in a building and not having those two corners makes me very nervous. I wouldn't build a building like that. Given the size of your span, I would want at least 8 feet of wall on each side of your opening and I would make sure to have some OSB or plywood there for sheer strength under the metal. While metal is fine in most applications, this is pushing it's limits and not enough in my opinion to keep the building stable.

Your best bet would be to either have a wall inside the building at that open end and leave the open end big enough for what you need it for, or put in several large doors.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[franklin2]

If you have strong prevailing winds in a certain direction, you may want to turn the open end away from that direction.

 

[ultrarunner]

So far my favorite shop size is 40 wide and multiples of 24 long... so 40 by 48 or 40 x 72 or 40 x 96 with one large gable end roll up door and roll up doors in each 24 long section.

Having a center isle with a large gable door in theory means not having to move any equipment to get something out and only having to to open one door...

 

[LD1]

Menards has GC rated 2x6 lumber. If the link works, here it is http://www.menards.com/main/deckest...e/42-vertical-handrail-/p-1414287-c-13134.htm

I really have no preference as to posts or laminated, just that laminated would be about 1/2 of what 6x6 posts would cost. Especially since we are talking 16-18' posts, and even more on the gables.

As to the trusses, I will likely go 4' OC w/posts on 8', or even 5' OC and posts on 10. I think 8' will be too much for adding liner panel and insulation in the ceiling. 2x12's are pricey and heavy. Was trying to save some $$$ and avoid having to lug them 14' in the air.

If all the quotes come back at $6k+, I will build myself. I certainly wouldnt think it would take 6 guys a whole week, but I could be wrong. I was thinking 4 guys and 2-3 days??

And to clarify, I have no intention of leaving a gable end open. It will have a 16' door, a 10' door, and a man door. But I will do that myself. Along with insulation, concrete, wiring, etc etc. Was just shopping for a crew to come in and knock out the structure rather quickly so I can have a roof and start storing stuff again.

Also considering the composite grade-board. It has the rat-guard built in. Anyone use this stuff http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...ion-composite-gradeboard/p-1938334-c-5713.htm

It would rule out doing the 2x6 walls flush, but looks like neat stuff.

 

[EddieWalker]

Three of those 2x6's are going to cost you $57 plus two tubes of liquid nails and the cost of nails or screws to get them tight enough together for the glue to set up. One 6x6 is $54 http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...ted-critical-structural/p-1414366-c-13131.htm

Eddie

 

[LD1]

The 2x6x18 GC rated is ~$16. I would only need 1. Cut down in staggering joints just to get above ground.

Something like 4'-6'-8'. Then from there up to the 14' high wall, I would need 14', 12', and 10' NON-treated 2x6's. Those cost $6.42, $7.42, and $8.98. For a total of ~$39 for a post that totals 18'

IF I only needed 16' posts, I could used non reated 12', 10', and 8', which would save about $4 for $35 each post. The 18' 6x6's are $65. So it would save me $25 each post. The 16' lengths would save me $10 or better each post. And the long posts on the gable ends would save even more. So if I go 14' high, it could save over $500.

But the concept is new to me. IF I decide to go laminated posts, I do need more research. But I havent seen anywhere that anyone has mentioned gluing them together? I was wondering about that. Anyone who has the laminated style of posts....do you know if they were screwed and glued or just nailed?

 

[sixdogs]

After five pole barns I can tell you to build bigger than you want. 40 x 60 would be a minimum and if you must build that size put an overhang on the east side.

Two big doors...one on a gable end and one about 60% of the way back on one side. Barn 14 ft high.

Just my two cents.

 

[LD1]

Moving out of a 30x50. So either 40x64 or 36x72 or similar will add ~1000sq ft. And really all the bigger I have money to do right now. And truss prices jump pretty good once you start going north of 40'. So cost vs sq ft starts to go the wrong way.

12' is my minimum. But planning on 14' at the moment. Also planning on many doors.

As it is now, the plan is to build a wall somewhere around 36-40' deep into the building. Giving me somewhere between a 36x36-40x40 workshop that will be heated, insulated, conreted, etc etc. And planning on a 16x8 overhead door and 10x12 door, and a man door on the gable end that I was quoting to be left open. Then beyond the wall, another 24-36' (just depends on how I build and what size), will be sorage for the tractor, backhoe, implements, etc. Stuff that dont need to live on concrete and in the heat all the time. And planning on 2 doors on the eave ends across from each other. 12' wide and 12-14' high sliders.

Edit: And 5 barns...did you build them yourself? you hire it done? IF you hired, what builder(s) did you use?

 

[BAP]

Don't forget to figure in snow load. Trusses 8' apart are too much to handle snow load. Last thing you want is to have your barn collapse because there is a winter with a lot snow.

 

[ultrarunner]

Here's a couple of pictures of the shop/barn I like that is 40 x 96

 

[sixdogs]

Some I contracted, some I hired. One was a Morton nice barn/shop and one a Walters machinery storage. I contracted barn with a sloping New England roof/wall on one side, another machinery/shop building and finally a storage/cow barn combo. All but one bigger than yours and I learned from each of them.

Two big doors, one on the end and the other a little more than halfway down on the side. 14 ft tall. Posts 7 1/2 ft on center. An overhang on the east side for QT machinery and no window in the man door. That's what five buildngs taught me but it's a subjective thing.

You can't build a barn on paper or in your mind. You have to find one you like and duplicate it with almost no changes.

Where you are is where I am and you could hire an Amish crew out of Holmes county. They do spectacular work and have built lots of barns around me.

 

[KennyG]

You mention drilling for wiring. If I was doing mine over, I would surface mount all the wiring in conduit for ease of installation and future flexibility. Of course, that might be my personal problem.

 

[LD1]

Trusses 8' apart are too much to handle snow load.

Where did you get that information?

You mention drilling for wiring. If I was doing mine over, I would surface mount all the wiring in conduit for ease of installation and future flexibility. Of course, that might be my personal problem.

Thought about surface mounting also. But the cost of metal boxes, EMT, EMT connectors, etc would cost more to wire. AND I would have to wait until the barn was done, insulated, painted, etc. Which probably wont happen right away. Just getting under roof and some power for lights and tools in the primary objective.

 

[LD1]

View attachment 392587View attachment 392588View attachment 392589

Here's a couple of pictures of the shop/barn I like that is 40 x 96

Thats a sweet looking shop. Is that yours?

I dont care for the metal trusses/vaulted ceiling. Metal trusses I was pricing are about 4x's the cost of wood, and I dont like heating the extra space of the vaulted ceiling...

 

[ultrarunner]

Thats a sweet looking shop. Is that yours?

I dont care for the metal trusses/vaulted ceiling. Metal trusses I was pricing are about 4x's the cost of wood, and I dont like heating the extra space of the vaulted ceiling...

Unfortunately no... not a day goes by without thinking about the place that got away... and it's been two years.

No metal... has wood trusses and well insulated... it seldom freezes here or gets above 90... the dormers provide for natural light.

The last bay through the sliding glass door has a hoist with mezzanine and the scissor trusses provide the extra height.

It belonged to a customer of mine... one day I was out his way and saw a For Sale sign... learned he had passed away and called the Realtor and said I want it at full price AS-IS... something I never do... learned they had accepted an offer that morning that was a 100k under.

For the next 59 days I was the backup offer... been two years now and doubt I could afford it the way property went up...

One of the other things I really like is the two circular drives to move equipment/trailers around and never mud since it's all paved with 7.5" concrete with double re-bar.

 

[LD1]

Very nice place indeed.

I did some more calling today. Still waiting on some quotes bit am doubtful I will be hiring it done. Looking more towards building myself, so I started pricing some trusses...

I can get 4' oc for $129 and goe with 8' posts. I can go wit 5' oc for $144 and go with 10' post spacing. Or 8' oc for $161 and back to 8' posts.

The 8' trusses would be the cheapest but still haven't seen a good way that I like to attach purlins on end. 5' would be next. Fewer posts and fewer trusses and can still lay purlins flat. But both 5' and 4' spacing are going to require massive carriers. Which with more posts and the headers, adds about $1000-$1500 More. Which goes a long way toward figuring out how to attach 8' on edge purlins and addind nailers underneath for liner panels.

Ironically though, all of the above trusses come with 2x6 tops and bottoms. The 4' oc uses #1 lumber, the 5' ups to 2400msr, and the 8' uses msr and heavier plates. All designed for 25-5-0-5

 

[KennyG]

Thought about surface mounting also. But the cost of metal boxes, EMT, EMT connectors, etc would cost more to wire. AND I would have to wait until the barn was done, insulated, painted, etc. Which probably wont happen right away. Just getting under roof and some power for lights and tools in the primary objective.

Yeah, that's the problem. I'll tell you what I ran into and you can probably do a better job. I was backfitting an old building and I found I had a hard time getting the boxes mounted so they came out flush. It drove me crazy because I've mounted boxes in drywalled walls with no problem. I finally decided it was the unevenness of the post surfaces that resulted in the boxes being cocked at angles.

I mounted boxes on the ceiling to connect plug in 4 foot lights and cutting holes in the metal ceiling was very time consuming. By the time I was done, I wished I had either run conduit or scrapped the original boxes and run the wire into the back of surface mount boxes.

 

[EddieWalker]

The 2x6x18 GC rated is ~$16. I would only need 1. Cut down in staggering joints just to get above ground.

Something like 4'-6'-8'. Then from there up to the 14' high wall, I would need 14', 12', and 10' NON-treated 2x6's. Those cost $6.42, $7.42, and $8.98. For a total of ~$39 for a post that totals 18'...

While I'm not a fan of using three 2x6's instead of a single 6x6, I understand the concept that it's faster to build a shop with them instead of taking the time to notch the post. I also can't argue that three 2x6s that are thoroughly together and either nailed or screw tightly together to allow the glue to set up and bond them together is going to be just as strong or even stronger then a 6x6 post.


But the idea of using short lengths of 2x6s just doesn't come close. Instead of maximizing the strength of the lumber, you are now creating multiple weak points. There is no amount of savings that justifies doing something like this. For $15 more you can have a solid treated 6x6 is money well spent.

Eddie