Yet another 3000 series wheel spacer thread

[GreatWhitehunter]

As much as I hate to do this, I've got a question about wheel spacers for the 3000 series machines. I've never been as concerned as some with the narrow stance of my OS 3320 but I do live on a hill so it's always in my mind while operating the machine. I've got the smaller r4's, loaded and a 448 hoe. Most of the back and forth on the spacer threads details concern with adding the spacers to units with hoes due to the additional stress. I'd like to add 2" spacers to my machine while keeping the wide tire position.

What's the consensus on doing this with regards to axle/bearing damage?

Matt:confused2:

 

[mcgill72143]

don't know how we could work it or if you'd even want to but I wish we could split the cost on a set....this set has four 2" spacers and I only need 2" on mine just like you.....Wheel Spacers....Im sure someone will chime in on your axle question....just thought I'd throw the offer out there......:thumbsup:

 

[dkhntr04]

I doubt you will have any issues. I have 4" spacers and don't worry about them at all. The closest thing I know of as a consensus is that Deere spec's 68" as max width with R1 tires. So if you are narrower than that, you won't be applying any more leverage than what Deere wants.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I am making my own wheel spacers for my new 3005 to gain about 4.5" per side. I have the ag tires set at the widest setting and it is still less than 60" to the outside of the tires. However I do not have a back hoe and if I did I would not use the spacers. That is a lot of additional weight to add to the levrege factor. The heaviest mine will see is the 5' brush hog and for the hills I have to deal with daily I am willing to lose some bearing life for better sidehill stability.

 

[greg_g]

I have the ag tires set at the widest setting and it is still less than 60" to the outside of the tires..

The 3005 is physically a smaller tractor than the 3x20 series. Your owner manual states
[h=3]2WD Front Tire Tread Width[/h] Tread Width (5.00-15) 956 mm (37.6 in.)
Tread Width (25 x 8.50-14 4PR) 985 mm (38.7 in.)
Tire Width (5.00-15) 160 mm (6.3 in.)
Tire Width (25 x 8.50-14) 185 mm (7.3 in.)
Inside Tire Width (5.00-15) 830 mm (32.7 in.)
Inside Tire Width (25 x 8.50-14) 770 mm (30.3 in.)
Outside Tire Width (5.00-15) 1150 mm (45.3 in.)
Outside Tire Width (25 x 8.50-14) 1180 mm (46.5 in.)
[h=3]MFWD Front Tire Tread Width[/h] Tread Width (7.00-14) 986 mm (38.8 in.)
Tread Width (25 x 8.50-14 4PR) 985 mm (38.7 in.)
Tire Width (7.00-14) 160 mm (6.3 in.)
Tire Width (25 x 8.50-14 4PR) 185 mm (7.3 in.)
Inside Tire Width (7.00-14) 820 mm (32.3 in.)
Inside Tire Width (25 x 8.50-14 4PR) 770 mm (30.3 in.)
Outside Tire Width (7.00-14) 1190 mm (46.9 in.)
Outside Tire Width (25 x 8.50-14 4PR) 1180 mm (46.5 in.)
[h=3]2WD and MFWD Rear Tire Tread Width[/h] Tread Width (11.2-24) 1016 mm (40 in.)
Tread Width (13.6-16) 1020 mm (40.2 in.)
Tread Width (15.0-19.5) 1140 mm (44.9 in.)
Tire Width (11.2-24) 240 mm (9.4 in.)
Tire Width (13.6-16) 280 mm (11.0 in.)
Tire Width (15.0-19.5) 320 mm (12.6 in.)
Inside Tire Width (11.2-24) 780 mm (30.7 in.)
Inside Tire Width (13.6-16) 675 mm (26.6 in.)
inside Tire Width (15.0-19.5) 745 mm (29.3 in.)
Outside Tire Width (11.2-24) 1350 mm (53.2 in.)
Outside Tire Width (13.6-16) 1340 mm (52.8 in.)
Outside Tire Width (15.0-19.5) 1490 mm (58.7 in.)

and

Changing Wheel Spacing and Tread Width
To provide best stability, operate machine with rear wheels mounted in the wide tread position whenever possible.
Always make sure tires rotate in proper direction. Arrows on sidewall should point in direction of forward rotation.
• Move wheel from one side of machine to the other (A) to maintain proper direction of tire rotation.
• Tighten front wheel bolts alternately to 133 N•m (98 lb-ft). Tighten rear wheel bolts alternately to 186 N•m (137 lb-ft). Check and retighten bolts as instructed in service section.
• Tread width is measured between centers of tires. See SPECIFICATIONS for proper dimensions.

So if you're at 58.7", it would seem that's all you're gonna get - without spacers.


//greg//

 

[jimgerken]

I have run the 4 inches of spacers per side for several years now. I do have a backhoe mounted about 20% of the time. I havent seen any trouble yet. There is no way I'd go back to stock width. You will notice a nice improvement with 2 inches per side.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Agreed... the 3005 is smaller/lighter duty than the next size up which is every other model in the 3000 series... I would be more likely to use spacers with a hoe in the OP's situation than I would in my own... and having said that, 2" will likely not hurt much and certenly help in the stability dept.

I will stress that torqing the spacers and lug nuts/bolts regularly is VERY importaint.

 

[bobsphotos]

Hi Matt,
Interestingly enough, I had to go to my local Deere dealer yesterday to pick up a part, and stopped by to speak to my salesman regarding buying rear weights for my 3320. When I mentioned that my rear tires were loaded he looked at me with a very funny look. I just explained to him that I work uneven ground all the time and I am still getting the famous "puckers". You know, the ones you get when you feel tippy. That being said, he showed me a picture of a Deere prototype wheel spacer for the 3000 series tractors. He said that Deere used to offer them and then took them off the market. I mentioned that I wanted to go with spacers but was worried about the extra leverage on the axle bearings and he agreed it was a concern and he did not know yet if Deere was going to warranty issues if they were used with a backhoe. He mentioned that there will be more info towards the end of the year. My Deere is long past warranty so I just might go with spacers and try to go easy when I have the BH on. My biggest concern with the BH on is raising the outriggers too quickly and allowing the tires to drop down quickly and stressing the axle. I started a post last year about putting flow control on the outriggers but I took it on the chin about that idea. I still may do it.
Bob W

 

[greg_g]

The concern is not with the bearings, it's with the aluminum rear axle housings. They'd likely crack/break long before the steel bearings. Had the axle housings been made from steel, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

//greg//

 

[jimgerken]

I have the full 4 inches per side on a 3720, and I use a backhoe. I don't feel the backhoe puts as much stress on the axles/bearings/housings as pulling the field disk does. That being said, I guess I will start lowering it from the outriggers more gently though.
And as far as re-torquing often as mentioned above, in my case I cant really do that, since I have about 360 lbs of weight on each rear rim too, and can't get to the fasteners. But what I did and so far there has been no loosening, was to initially torque the spacers to the hub with 10% more torque than JD recommends, and I used plenty of blue locktite. Then did the same with the bolts to hold the wheel to the spacer. I can visually inspect each from the inside or outside of the wheel, and nothing has loosened in years (two?). I did have rockshaft valve service done and so we had to take one side wheel off, and everything was nice and snug. We did it all the same again. Now, if a guy did lots and lots of ground engaging work, pulling a ripper or something, they would surely loosen up over time, so use some judgement as to what your tractor sees.

 

[toddler]

This seems to be the most recent thread on wheel spacers, so I'm asking here.

I have a 3520 I picked up this weekend. It had 9.9 hours on it when we drove it onto the trailer, and 10.5 now, so it was basically new. Still has 0 PTO hours.
I bought it privately from a guy who unfortunately needed to sell it. The dealer he bought from had loaded the read tires (43x16-20 4P R4s) with glycol, but mounted them valves out. I'm planning to add wheel spacers, and am wondering if I should add 2" spacers and move the wheels to their wide setting, or add 4" and leave the valve stems out. Is there any functional/safety/performance benefit to one option over the other?
Thanks,
Todd

 

[CobyRupert]

Functionally: At first I was going to say that with spacers the extra leverage/torque experienced because of the increased width is placed on the axle (imagine if the spacers where 10' wide and your tires had max. traction at full horsepower). But this is also true with a "deeper" rim setting (again imagine if the rim's dish offset was 10' deep; just now the rims hub plate AND axle is also experiencing this additional torque. Technically the rim hub plate is in a "weaker configuration", but the tractor is engineered for this configuration, so I wouldn't (and don't) worry about it.

 

[toddler]

Technically the rim hub plate is in a "weaker configuration", but the tractor is engineered for this configuration, so I wouldn't (and don't) worry about it.

You mean the wheel's hub plate is slightly weaker in the wide setting? It does appear that a flat spacer would fit better on the wheel with the valves out. Otherwise it sits against the "bump outs" from the shaping of the hub plate. However,I agree, it should be plenty strong either way. The centering bump on the spacer my sit deeper in the valve out position though. Doubt that matters much either.

 

[CobyRupert]

You mean the wheel's hub plate is slightly weaker in the wide setting? It does appear that a flat spacer would fit better on the wheel with the valves out. Otherwise it sits against the "bump outs" from the shaping of the hub plate. However,I agree, it should be plenty strong either way. The centering bump on the spacer my sit deeper in the valve out position though. Doubt that matters much either.

Not sure how the 'botas do it, but if you are changing the way the inner rim (disk/hub) connects to the outer rim (assuming this isn't fixed/welded) so that the "offset" is increasing (i.e. the horizontal offset distance from the end of the center hub to the center of the outer rim) then yes, the inner rim disk is experiencing some increased leverage/torque.

 

[toddler]

Got it. Thanks.
3520 is Deere. You thought I meant 3540 I think, which is just discontinued Grand L. Bota is now on the 3560, and Deere is going to 3033R and 3039R to repace the 3320/3520/3720 models. Tier 4 ... I avoided that.

 

[greg_g]

am wondering if I should add 2" spacers and move the wheels to their wide setting, or add 4" and leave the valve stems out.

If you measure from both sides, you'll quickly realize that there's very little width gained when reversing the rear R4 rims. Plus, the valve stems are a PITA to get to on the inside rear. And I strongly recommend 4" spacers. That takes you out to within an inch or so of the max width that's spec'd available with the widest R1 setting. But by all means, reverse the fronts. With them reversed, I got by with 2.5" spacers.

//greg//

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

If you measure from both sides, you'll quickly realize that there's very little width gained when reversing the rear R4 rims. Plus, the valve stems are a PITA to get to on the inside rear. And I strongly recommend 4" spacers. That takes you out to within an inch or so of the max width that's spec'd available with the widest R1 setting. But by all means, reverse the fronts. With them reversed, I got by with 2.5" spacers.

//greg//

I didn't major in physics, however, I don't think there is anything to be gained by reversing the front wheels, since the front axle pivots in the middle.

 

[toddler]

I didn't major in physics, however, I don't think there is anything to be gained by reversing the front wheels, since the front axle pivots in the middle.

I think widening the front is more to keep the front and rear wheel tracks close to being the same. More important if you have crop rows you're driving over.

I ordered 3 1/2 inch spacers for the back and will swap the fronts to wide when I put them on.

 

[greg_g]

I didn't major in physics, however, I don't think there is anything to be gained by reversing the front wheels, since the front axle pivots in the middle.

Pivot, yes. But distance to the pivot stop is short. Increasing the front track width benefits stability the instant the pivot stop is reached. Plus, widening the front to (closely) match the rears also leaves behind only two tire tracks - rather than four.

//greg//

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Pivot, yes. But distance to the pivot stop is short. Increasing the front track width benefits stability the instant the pivot stop is reached. Plus, widening the front to (closely) match the rears also leaves behind only two tire tracks - rather than four.

//greg//

OK Agree on the tracking portion, however, by the time the front hits the pivot stop, one of the rear wheels is going to be seriously in the air, perhaps to the point of no return.