Thoughts on this used welder?

[joshuabardwell]

BTW, if you look at the above picture, the second bead from the right was my attempt to use the high-output AC terminal. I figure since it was marked for 6013, and that's what I had, I'd give it a go. I had a hard time getting the arc going and keeping it going. Back to the low-output terminal for me!

 

[k0ua]

I got an auto-darkening helmet today, and boy howdy is that a treat. Only thing is, now I have to remember to make sure it's turned on again when I get done grinding. There's an accident waiting to happen. Maybe I should use a different face shield when I grind. So far, I just look away and tap the work piece to confirm that the lens darkens before I start welding in earnest.

Anyway, here's today's work.

View attachment 283328

I went out and bought a brand new box of 1/8" E6013 just to rule out bad rods as a source of my DC problems. All of the above beads were run with those rods. I was able to consistently get a DC arc struck, but I had to run the welder all-out at 140 amps to do it, which seems higher than would normally be recommended. The DC beads also seem taller than they should be, to my amateur eye. Bear in mind this is on a piece of about 3/8" thick T-stock, if that's relevant. On the AC side, I think the 6013 runs a little nicer than the 6011 I was using, although the auto-darkening hood and my slight increase in experience probably play in.

I am no expert but did you try DCEP ? that is what I would have used. Those thin ropey beads I believe are caused by DCEN.. and possibly by traveling too fast. I am still thinking the DC setting is not delivering the rated current, as you are having to set it too high to get going... I wish a more experience weldor would pop in and offer some more suggestions. but my analysis is reverse those DC leads.. to have the electrode positive for more penetration, try traveling a little slower. There are some good tips on the miller site.

Miller - Five Steps To Improving Your Stick Welding Technique

James K0UA

 

[joshuabardwell]

I am still thinking the DC setting is not delivering the rated current, as you are having to set it too high to get going...

Great minds think alike. In the interest of SCIENCE, I switched the leads and ran some beads. They were just on a different part of the piece and I didn't photograph them. I agree that current is not being delivered. If I have to turn all the way up to 140 just to get an arc started, and the resulting beads are that thin, I can't think of any other explanation--not that I'm an expert, mind you. At this point, though, we believe that the diodes are good; we believe that the leads are fine; the rods are fine; the terminals look okay. I just can't think what else could be the issue.

Someone--maybe here, I don't remember--suggested turning the welder all the way up and sticking a rod to the work piece for about ten seconds, then looking for what part of the welder is hot. I have an IR thermometer. I may give that a go. See if there is a bad contact somewhere.

One other note that was interesting--maybe relevant, maybe not. I couldn't get the arc going with DC using the "scratch" method. What worked most consistently was actually dragging the tip of the rod across the piece. After a half-inch or an inch or so, the arc would get going. Weird. Of course, I couldn't have done that before I got the auto-darkening helmet. I never did go back and try the 6011 rods and see if that worked for them.

Anyway, I think my AC beads are looking... well, not mediocre even, but they do look like beads anyway... I cut up some pieces of scrap, and tomorrow I think I'll try sticking some metal together!

 

[joshuabardwell]

PS: You're not going to critique my AC beads at all? Come on! Give me some feedback! :cool2: One thing I know for sure is that I need to end the weld better. I need to build up some metal instead of just flicking off and leaving a "ramped" appearance. I really am not sure how to judge subtler things like whether there is good penetration, whether the travel speed was right, and so on.

 

[k0ua]

PS: You're not going to critique my AC beads at all? Come on! Give me some feedback! :cool2: One thing I know for sure is that I need to end the weld better. I need to build up some metal instead of just flicking off and leaving a "ramped" appearance. I really am not sure how to judge subtler things like whether there is good penetration, whether the travel speed was right, and so on.

The AC beads look pretty good. I wish you were here and could weld for a while on my little Everlast DC machine. That way you could get some practice with a known good machine.

James K0UA

 

[joshuabardwell]

The AC beads look pretty good. I wish you were here and could weld for a while on my little Everlast DC machine. That way you could get some practice with a known good machine.

Awww shucks. I was just fishing for a compliment anyway. I watched the Wall Mountain SMAW instructional videos, and I gotta say they're pretty awesome. That, combined with the advice to watch the pool, not the arc, is what's driving my current practice. Frankly, I should go through and watch them again, just so they're fresh in my mind. Eventually, I think I will go hit up the welder who lives down the road from me... maybe see if he'll trade me some instruction for a few pounds of farm-fresh pork.

I hear you on the DC machine. The DC arc is so docile compared to the AC arc. Eventually, I will figure out what's going on with this machine, but until then, I'll stick with AC and still get a lot done.

 

[dex3361]

The thing that puzzles me here is that it is much easier to weld DC than AC. Your beads look cool to me but that could be the speed you are moving(to fast) or it could be that your current is low. It would be a good idea to have a experienced welder try to run a few beads to see what he thinks. If you had a DC amp clamp you could strike an arc and measure the amps on DC and then measure the AC as well. Try running a few more beads on DC ad a little side to side zig zag movement and go much slower forward. Your amps on 6013 should be about 130 - 135 amps tops amd try EP and EN. Make sure the metal is clean. Your beads are promising for a beginner. So dont give up. Keep in mind you will not stand a chance if your welder is not working correctly. Its hard enough to learn with a perfect machine.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Your beads look cool to me but that could be the speed you are moving(to fast) or it could be that your current is low. If you had a DC amp clamp you could strike an arc and measure the amps on DC and then measure the AC as well.

I don't think there's any possibility that I was moving too fast. My travel speed felt quite slow, and if I went much slower, the weld metal beaded up. You can kind of see an example of this at the beginning (top) of the left-most DC bead in the photo above. The travel speed was definitely slower than with AC on the same rod, and the deposition rate was also slower.

I don't have an amp clamp, but I think that low current is a safe diagnosis. At the recommended amperage (per the box), I can barely get a spark, never mind an arc. Now I'm tempted to buy an amp clamp though... Oh, if only I had all the money in the world! (Heck, if I had all the money in the world, I'd just buy a new welder and stop fooling around!)

 

[dex3361]

Most AC amp clamps do not read DC so make sure the one you buy will fit for the intended purpose.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Most AC amp clamps do not read DC so make sure the one you buy will fit for the intended purpose.

No worries.

Auto ranging AC/DC Digital Clamp Meter - Amazon.com

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Joshua, I have browsed through this thread, and haven't read every word of it, so forgive me if I am backtracking here. From the picture of your welds in DC, it looks as if you have the wrong polarity. I know I saw you having the leads matched to their "correct" color...which if the unit is connected as I think, that would mean you are in straight polarity...and would cause the beads that you see. You need "reverse" polarity to weld DC on most rods. It would also cause the other symptoms you are seeing. Your electrode holder should be in the positive terminal, regardless of the color you see on the plug side. Work clamp should be in the negative. If so, then don't forget that when you go to DC on those small transformer welders you are basically cutting AC in half...and it takes "more" setting of the amps, because you'll max out at almost 125 amps or so DC.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Joshua, I have browsed through this thread, and haven't read every word of it, so forgive me if I am backtracking here.

No sweat, Mark. Your input will be most welcome.

From the picture of your welds in DC, it looks as if you have the wrong polarity. I know I saw you having the leads matched to their "correct" color...which if the unit is connected as I think, that would mean you are in straight polarity...and would cause the beads that you see. You need "reverse" polarity to weld DC on most rods. It would also cause the other symptoms you are seeing. Your electrode holder should be in the positive terminal, regardless of the color you see on the plug side. Work clamp should be in the negative. If so, then don't forget that when you go to DC on those small transformer welders you are basically cutting AC in half...and it takes "more" setting of the amps, because you'll max out at almost 125 amps or so DC.

It's not included in the picture, but I have tried it both ways, with the same result.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I stuck two pieces of metal together today.





I ground and half-beveled the edges, but surface prep was otherwise nonexistent. At first, I had a lot of problems with sticking the rod, until I realized that I probably had poor contact to ground, causing low amperage. I moved the ground clamp to a cleaner location and had better results. All beads were run with 1/8" E6013 on AC, at about 90-100 amps, except for the #5, which was run at about 110 amps. The metal was about 1/8" thick.

1, 2, and 3 are the front side. 4, 5, and 6 are the back side of the same piece, and had no surface prep or beveling. At he end of #2, the gap between the pieces grew larger, and I tried to weave back and forth and fill in. I personally think #5 is the best looking bead. I'm not 100% sure how to judge whether it is too flat or not, but I don't see a lot of splatter or undercut, so I think it may not have been too hot. To my eye, #5 looks like it probably has better penetration than the previous welds.

I recently learned the 1 amp per mil of thickness guideline, and by that, 1/8" metal should start at about 125 amps, so maybe even 110 was low, especially given the poor surface prep here.

Obvious lesson of the day is that if you weld on a piece of scrap wood on a pair of sawhorses, you will light your table on fire. Whoops! This has not previously been a problem because I have been welding beads on a length of steel T-bar, so the weld bead was never in contact with the table.

Where do y'all get your scrap for welding practice? If I keep having to cut up this piece of 1/8" T-bar, I am going to spend more in abrasive wheels than I would just buying the metal. Well, okay, not literally, but still.

 

[Shield Arc]

I'm new to this myself, you know what I think you need? Is for you to be sitting in a chair, and someone reach around you grab your hand and weld a few beads. You'd be amazed how much that helps.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I'm new to this myself, you know what I think you need? Is for you to be sitting in a chair, and someone reach around you grab your hand and weld a few beads. You'd be amazed how much that helps.

If anyone out there is in the Knoxville area, I'm game.

 

[murphy1244]

I'm new to this myself, you know what I think you need? Is for you to be sitting in a chair, and someone reach around you grab your hand and weld a few beads. You'd be amazed how much that helps.

Sounds like a road trip for Shield Arc!!

 

[Shield Arc]

I'd run an ad in your local Craig's list, If you have one. There is a guy who runs an ad in our Craig's list offering his services to help guys learn how to set their new welders, or to give one on one instruction. I think I remember reading where he charges $25.00 an hour.

Another options is place an ad on the bulletin board at your local welding supply. Even talk to the guys behind the counter, ask them if they know of some old retired beat up weldor who would be willing to help a new guy. I think you'd be surprised at how many old weldors are willing to pass on their knowledge! I know I' am, he!! I'm not using it!

 

[cowski]

maybe next trip to gatlinburg .i wish you would try some 1/8 6011 rods at about 125 on ac.then post them.

 

[joshuabardwell]

maybe next trip to gatlinburg .i wish you would try some 1/8 6011 rods at about 125 on ac.then post them.

I actually have done that, but not since I got the auto-dark hood, so maybe I ought to run a few more beads and see if the results have improved any. A guy who was getting out of welding sold me a bunch of his old supplies on the cheap, and one of them was a box of 6011.

Here you go. I found the old photo.



That's 1/8" E6011 at about 90 or 100 amps, so not exactly what you're asking for, but it's something. I'll burn some at 125 next time I get a chance.

 

[Shield Arc]

There are sections of some of your beads that are not all that bad:thumbsup:. But let me tell you something, it is hard for anybody to make beads look good that are welded on a flat plate! If you started making fillet, or lap welds, or even grind a groove in the plate, and fill the groove up, your beads would look a lot better. At the least, stack one bead halfway on top of the other, that is somewhat like a fillet weld. Start on the edge of the plate, make as straight a bead as you can, stack the next bead halfway on top of the first, etc, etc, etc. But don't run more than 3 or 4 beads before dunking the plate under some water.