Need TIG machine purchase advice

[sixdogs]

How much of a TIG welder would I need and how much would it cost?
I'm a somewhat intermediate MIG hobby welder and almost always work with mild steel for farm fabrication or street rod things. While MIG is nice, I'm thinking of buying a Lincold TIG machine to use for the same things and some aluminum as well. The prettier welds look better on nice cars and it's less mess in a nice shop. It would be more convenient to practice and I want to get into aluminum.

My question involves what I need and that gets me to price. I have been told I must have water cooled and a foot pedal to do aluminum because scratch start fouls the tip. Adult Ed at a tech school is my only experience with TIG and it was water cooled and foot pedal so I don't know any different. I really liked that setup but those features in a Lincold welder is around $5,000. Wow. Is that the way it is or are there alternatives or any directions to point me? I'm not sure what I want to do yet but thinking about it.

 

[Jesse masterson]

Millet makes a nice little welder for ac aluminum called a diversion rins off 110 or 220 for 1700$ only dray back is it's limited to thin materials.I think it's limited to 3/16 aluminum

 

[cowski]

starting out i would look at a miller syncrowave 200 with a w-17 air cooled torch.you also need a bottle of argon.this machine can stick weld also.

 

[Shield Arc]

If you're going to get into aluminum work with Tig. Dust off your wallet! And if you plan on doing any work on thicker aluminum, you may want to take quite a few aspirin because it's really going to hurt!
My 300-amp Tig welder really struggles with 3/8-inch thick aluminum, especially if it's of any size.
Water cooled torches are nice because they are smaller than air cooled. Yes you need a foot pedal or hand control when doing aluminum, you start out with high amps, then start backing off the amps as you continue to weld.

 

[Sockwell]

I bought a Miller Diversion right after the machines were introduced. I bought it to do thin aluminum and SS. The previous reply is correct in that it will only do thin aluminum. I've tried one time to repair a larger aluminum casting. The thermal overloads tripped before a good puddle had formed, let alone start traveling with a bead. Its a good machine, but it is limited. I have an advantage over most folks by having access to a Synchrowave 350 at work. If you are set on doing aluminum, be prepared to pay.

 

[sixdogs]

So all of this, taken together, means it's over $5,500 for a 275 Miller with a foot pedal. The water cooled is nice but it it necessary or at least important for aluminum? That is indeed a difficult price unless I can somehow justify it. Maybe I can look for something used.

 

[LD1]

So all of this, taken together, means it's over $5,500 for a 275 Miller with a foot pedal. The water cooled is nice but it it necessary or at least important for aluminum? That is indeed a difficult price unless I can somehow justify it. Maybe I can look for something used.

I dont think you ever mentioned how thick you are wanting to weld on the aluminum side???

And no, the water cooler is not necessary, just a luxury.

When you say "I want to start getting into aluminum", if by that you mean smaller stuff like under 1/4", you dont need to spend 6k on a 350A welder. Right now at work, our only way to weld aluminum is with a POS spool gun or stick. Our tig is DC only. Its a miller maxstar 200. I have got the boss convinced to get us a dynasty 200 now. Basically the same welder but adds AC capability. He is getting quotes of $3k for just the machine. Which is fine for us because the torch and foot pedal from the maxstar will work. But you will have to spend ~$500-$800 for those. But $3800 is way better than $5500 if you dont plan to go much over 1/4"

 

[Shield Arc]

I have got the boss convinced to get us a dynasty 200 now.

Oh you guys are going to love that machine! :thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

I hope so. Now hes just trying to figure out what to do with the old maxstar. I think he is going to sell it outright on ebay. He was trying to find a place that would take it in on trade, but no one wanted it. It is a **** nice welder thought, just lacking AC I love welding stainless with that machine:thumbsup:

 

[sixdogs]

Shield Arc and LD1----Can you tell me more about this Dynasty 200? Dynasty 300?
My only experience is with a Lincoln 350? or ? water cooled with a foot pedal and I really liked it.
My aluminum thickness would almost always be less than 1/4". Maybe 1/8" or less to the 3/16" range. I would like to do mild steel but some aluminum as well. What steel thickness would work for this machine as there are times I would like to go a little more than 1/4" to 5/16"?

 

[ironnut]

You might want to spend some time on Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a boat load of other info site. There are some videos of him demonstrating the Miller Diversion and an Everlast machine. He pushes the envelope for the Diversion and the Everlast machine welding a some plate aluminum to an 1 1/2" diameter rod. It takes a while to get it going and he suggests that use a 50/50 mix of helium and argon which apparently helps a great deal with the heat transfer.

I have been researching TIG welders and if you have the coin, bigger is better, and Miller or Lincoln a better choice. I don't have the coin so I have been looking at an Everlast PowerTig 200DX for about $1100. If the guy on weldingtipsandtricks is right about using the helium argon mix then that machine and the Miller Diversion should allow you to do some fairly thick material on an occasional basis. One of the things he mentions in the video is to run the welder at less than max output during the preheat phase and then going to full output when you finally get a puddle started.

 

[Shield Arc]

Shield Arc and LD1----Can you tell me more about this Dynasty 200? Dynasty 300?

Here is some reading for you. I'm sure the Lincoln is a fine machine too, I just can't say I've ever run one. Wouldn't it be nice if I could remember all the machines I've run? Guess that's what happens when you get old!

Miller - Dynasty Series TIG Welders, GTAW Welding Equipment

 

[LD1]

For a home shop, and on a budget, personally I would go for the diversion series or the Lincoln square wave 175. Those can be had complete for under $2k. And while 1/4" would be pushing the limits, keep in mind that those ratings are single pass. If the occasional thicker job comes up, you can always v-grove and fill.

We are only looking at the dynasty series for work because of portability and the fact that all of our welding plugs are 460/480 3phase. So a 230-single phase welder is out of the question. Thats why we are looking at the dynasty. And lincoln doesnt have a 460v inverter welder for under 5k. Which makes the $3k dynasty look really good. And also the fact that the accessories from our current miller maxstar will work, whereas if we went lincoln, those would all have to be purchased separatly.

If you really want to know about the dynastys though, I am the wrong person to ask. Cause I have never welded with one. But on paper they look good and I hope to be able to say I have used one in the near future.:thumbsup: But since the maxstar is the same base machine only without the AC capability, I can tell you that it is pretty sweet steel and stainless. and VERY portable @ only ~40lbs.

 

[cowski]

a syncrowave 200 would just be a little over $2000.it is the smallest i would consider.if you want a larger welder the discontinued esab transformer units are just a little more.

 

[IslandTractor]

How much of a TIG welder would I need and how much would it cost?
I'm a somewhat intermediate MIG hobby welder and almost always work with mild steel for farm fabrication or street rod things. While MIG is nice, I'm thinking of buying a Lincold TIG machine to use for the same things and some aluminum as well. The prettier welds look better on nice cars and it's less mess in a nice shop. It would be more convenient to practice and I want to get into aluminum.

My question involves what I need and that gets me to price. I have been told I must have water cooled and a foot pedal to do aluminum because scratch start fouls the tip. Adult Ed at a tech school is my only experience with TIG and it was water cooled and foot pedal so I don't know any different. I really liked that setup but those features in a Lincold welder is around $5,000. Wow. Is that the way it is or are there alternatives or any directions to point me? I'm not sure what I want to do yet but thinking about it.

As some of the other guys have mentioned, be careful before you decide to weld aluminum that you do your homework on the amount of heat/power needed. Are you (like most of us) just fascinated with the notion of welding with aluminum or do you really need to use aluminum in some project. I think most folks get over the fascination pretty quickly once they consider the extra costs involved in being able to do even sheet aluminum much less plate aluminum compared to steel or stainless with tig. Virtually any arc welder can be set up for hobby tig welding of steel/stainless. To get an AC/DC welder able to do even sheet aluminum is roughly a $2000 investment while even the smallest DC tig welder can do thicker steel at a quarter the price. Frankly, IMO just brazing aluminum is as strong and makes a lot more sense unless you are building moon probes or very expensive bicycles. TIG welding aluminum is sort of a holy grail and most non professional welder folks will leave it at that once carefully considering the cost benefit.

 

[Shield Arc]

Here is what a good Tig machine can do. Now this is all machine, (Dynasty 300) because I wouldn't make a pimple on a real Tig weldor's behind.

 

[sixdogs]

Wow, Shield Ark, that is quite the weld.

 

[Shield Arc]

Wow, Shield Ark, that is quite the weld.

Thanks! But trust me, it is all machine. I'm no Tig weldor at all. I'm more of a trigger puller.

 

[mrmikey]

If you want to do aluminum what about an aluminum spoolgun. They demoed this machne Thermal Arc a few weeks back at work and for the price, Can$1000 it works great. Would I consider it if I was in a production shop...nope but for home use it works like a charm. You've got stick, lift arc tig (DC only so no alum) as well as mig. The aluminum spoolgun is optional as well as a footpedal. I'm going for one once they're available in Canada.
If you want a bigger machine heres the next one up Thermal Arc ....Mike

 

[JPRambo]

I have a hobart 140 mig it says it can do aluminum. Can it? I dont have the need to. But maybe I will try it someday.