From trench to swale

/ From trench to swale #1  

kongmen

Bronze Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
81
Location
Columbus OH
Tractor
L3600 Kubota
This is a continuation of a thread I started a while back on a storm water issue I have. I have a 300' x 16" trench that is about 3' deep at the deepest end (I hope to be able to backfill to about 2' if it flows well this winter) that I would like to turn into a storm water swale. I would like to hear from anyone who has done this type of thing or just knows how it's done using a tractor with loader and 6.5' backhoe attachment. Is it a matter of positioning the backhoe perpendicular to the trench and pulling back and up until I get the desired slope so it can be mowed in the mowing season? Thanks for any replies.
 
/ From trench to swale #2  
best bet is to you a laser to check the grade. If you have the time the tractor will work fine. I use a rear blade as much as possible then use the back hoe to rough grade then use a box blade or rear blade to finish it. Have you ever thought of puting in a tile?? I have not found the other thread. I have don't lots of tiles to fix problems like yours if its lots of water use a 6 inch or 8 inch tile.
 
/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Yes I did put in two 6" pvc tiles and came out below the ditch line. The grade of the land goes up from the problem area to the road then down into the ditch. I think I have about one and a half to two feet to work with. The trench is what's left from removing the tile. The tile won't work because I have so little pitch to work with and the amount of water would overwhelm the tile. I just wonder how the townships do road ditches do they use backhoes?
 
/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#4  
It's getting close to the season again so I thought I would bring this back and see if there are any more thoughts on it.

If I had a blade I would try it but all I have for now is the backhoe and loader.

So far it has flowed very well with the exception of standing water from about half way out to the road back to the problem area. I think I need to back fill and tamp that area to bring it up (the half closest to the road is already at the bottom of the road ditch so I can't go any deeper). Hopefully I can get this thing buttoned up and get some grass seed down as soon as dry weather comes because it's putting a lot of sediment in the road ditch and the township will come calling soon.
 
/ From trench to swale #5  
If I understand things right, you want to widen out a 3' ditch to a "swale" that you can mow ? You will have a LOT of earth to remove. Fastest way would be with the fel if its soft enough to dig and dry enough not to get stuck. A back hoe would do it but its gonna take a long time and much maneuvering...
 
/ From trench to swale #6  
push loose dirt into your existing ditch and then skid a log thru the ditch of sufficient diameter and length to give you a uniform grade and gently sloping sides
 
/ From trench to swale #7  
I would start by finding the centerline of the intended swale and set a string at finish grade at both ends and work out on both sides from there...

Except under exceptional storm conditions...1/8"-1/4" per foot should be enough pitch to move the run-off...
 
/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Well, I got around to making the trench into a swale by using the backhoe perpendicular to the trench on each side (lots of seat time for sure). Now I have two problems:

1) it appears I may only have a couple of inches of pitch for the 300' of swale (I will be checking it with a water level) but its such a massive amount of water that it will flow once it backs up.

2) now that it is a swale (probably 8' wide crest to crest) I'm not sure how to smooth out the sides for mowing. I talked to a guy with the same issue who tried smoothing out the sides with a box blade and he said it made his worse. Any suggestions?

btw The only reason I didn't check pitch earlier is because this is the only option I have to get the water off the property.
 
/ From trench to swale #9  
I find I can shape and level the sides by using a clean up bucket and working perpendicular to the ditch. Scraping with the blade smooths and evens then a pass or two with the sole of the bucket tends to firm the soil and push any small rocks below the surface. I couldn't do the job properly with a toothed bucket. I had to buy a clean up bucket for the purpose and bought a 30", the widest I thought my L3130 could reasonably handle. Should have bought one years ago. I use it around the farm much more than the toothed bucket.
 
/ From trench to swale #10  
Should be able to back drag with the bucket from either side and then down the length of the swale.

Or drive through the swale at right angles towing a drag or harrows. You can make your own drag.

Pictures would be nice.:thumbsup:
 
/ From trench to swale #11  
morning

i've swaled several hundred ft of pasture this year with my rototiller and box blade till ditch line than scrape it out till again scrape again mabybe 3 times than till on sides to form tilled swale than angle box blade and start working shoulders has worked well on areas not backhoe ditched on backhoe ditched i work perindicular to ditch with box blade untill i get a slope i can till than box blade and till as needed
greg
 
/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Here are some pics in various stages (I hope the pics post).


old pics I will get some new ones.
 

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/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#13  
New pics.
 

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/ From trench to swale #15  
If I understand things right, you want to widen out a 3' ditch to a "swale" that you can mow ?
*You will have a LOT of earth to remove. Fastest way would be with the fel if its soft enough to dig and dry enough not to get stuck. A back hoe would do it but its gonna take a long time and much maneuvering...
*Not if he installs drain pipe in the ditch and covers it then forms a smaller swale on top .
 
/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#17  
I intend to put some 12" tile in about half of the above swale (only half of it is deep enough). I was just wondering if any of you have any tips or tricks to give me before I start on this project this spring?

Thanks for any replies.
 
/ From trench to swale #18  
Only as far as smoothing your slope, so as to mow.

When in the perpenducular position, when cutting the swale bank, once that cut is done, ( but since that is done...) reach back, to where the boom is at a 45 degree angle to the ditchline. You'll need to raise yourself up some one one stabilizer, to make the bucket match the slope. You'll basically be raking the slope with the bucket teeth, bucket pointed straight down, cutting off the high spots, and filling divots. That is one advantage of a RT hoe, over a track excavator, unless you have a swivel boom, such as on a Gradall, bucket tilt head, or tilting upper structure as on an 880 Case hyd. excavator.

The raking action will give you a little "cream" to work with. You can clean up, what you brought up, when you move ahead. Just takes a little practice. You can always cast aside what you don't need, when it's not worth the time to move that pile of dirt, and clean up later.

I'd guess you could work a finish with a regular 3 pt. blade, turned backwards, at somewhat of an angle. Drag it with something, even if a weighted piece of chain link fence. Seed it, then roll.

I'm not sure how much reach you have, but on anything I've operated, whether it be a RT hoe, or excavator, centering the pivot point of the boom and stick on the cut your able to make, makes cutting a 3:1 slope a LOT easier. And even with an excavator with 20' of reach, I've had to make 2 passes, depending on the depth of the swale. Equal action on the boom and stick usually makes a pretty nice slope. But that action is only good, until it reaches the point where the boom is straight up and down. At that point, you'll need to boom down.

Lots of seat time is the answer...
 
/ From trench to swale
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Thanks for the reply.

So, I guess it's as simple as putting the tile in and covering it up with dirt? I think I have the grade as good as I can get it there wasn't much to work with from the beginning.

I do have one more question: My two options are smooth inside wall and corrugated inside wall. The corrugated inside wall is quite a bit cheaper and it will only have a zero turn mower going over it so it doesn't need to be culvert grade tile (smooth inside wall). With such little grade (maybe 1 to 1.5 foot over 300 feet) would it be advisable to go with smooth inside wall tile?
 
/ From trench to swale #20  
thanks for the pictures
 

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