Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[beppington]

I posted in this thread some time ago about wanting to install hammers, with their parallel-to-the-ground cutting action, instead of the OEM knives on the Caroni TM1900, to hopefully get an even better, even more uniform cut height.

Would it work to bend each Caroni knife so it's got a 90-deg bend in it instead of the ~45-deg bend they come with?

 

[jimgerken]

It would possibly break if bent. You'd want to anneal (soften) it first, then bend it hot and reharden. Or maybe it just has to be red hot and re-quenched. Its worth a try. I assume the Caroni has enough gaurding that the broken pcs would not clip you in the head???
It makes me wonder why it wasn't made this way in the first place? Do you suppose it is because it would wear out badly, instead of gracefully wearing shorter and shorter. I dunno... Let us know what works though...

 

[leonz]

Good afternoon Beppington,

The big reason for the single hole versus slot punch design for the knife hanger is cost as most other flail mowers have the d rings and clamps to hang the knives so they purchased an economical knive for their hanger assembly.

The current weldments are set in a welding jig when the rotors are assembled and its quick to do.

1. cut the weldments
2. drill the weldments
3 put them in the weldment jig on the rotor
4. weld them on all four sides while in the welding jig
5. balance the rotor
6. paint


Perhaps they will make a rotor with a shell hanger to allow slotted knives
and spring knive hangers which would allow the knives to become horizontal in flight to take advantage of the aerodynamics of a tapered grass slicer which acts like an airplane wing which are what I have on my Lawn Genie.






Refresh my memory is your dads flailmower equipped with
an a, b, or f rotor?


The problem is the knives metallurgy and if you heat the
grass slicers it will weaken them.

If you take the 45 degree angle off the knive the rear roller
will have to be lowered to match the corresponding
increase of actual cutting height in relation to the sod height
and I dont think you want that really as it is much more likely
to scalp.


Maybe its time to take the knives of and sharpen
them using a belt sander or a wet well knive
grinder which is the preferred method.


When the knives are right on you can slice a
piece of paper with them. Thats why I like the
wet well grinder from Wen.


You should have a near flat cut if you travel slow
enough or over lap your coverage slightly.

Have you had the knives off previously to sharpen them?

___________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[IslandTractor]

I agree with Leonz, there seems more to lose than gain mucking with blade angles. Those I believe are forged blades so I'm not sure what would be involved. It would sure take a long time to bend 58 knives!

 

[beppington]

Refresh my memory is your dads flailmower equipped with an a, b, or f rotor?

Not sure. It's whatever came with it when we picked it up at AgriSupply :thumbsup:

The problem is the knives metallurgy and if you heat the grass slicers it will weaken them.

I thought that could be the case.

If you take the 45 degree angle off the knive the rear roller will have to be lowered to match the corresponding increase of actual cutting height in relation to the sod height and I dont think you want that really as it is much more likely to scalp.

That part is OK. Easy enough to adjust the skids up just a tad, enough to make up for the shorter knives.

Maybe its time to take the knives of and sharpen them using a belt sander or a wet well knive grinder which is the preferred method.

They aren't dull now. Even when the flail was brand new, while the cut is pretty darn good, it's just not quite the same as a finish mower. I hoped hammers, or bending the OEM knives would accomplish that.

Have you had the knives off previously to sharpen them?

Hasn't been needed so far; Cuts as good now as day 1 :thumbsup: (just not quite as good as a finish mower)

Oh, well, it was a thought anyway ...

 

[leonz]

I bet you have the B rotor with the hardened knives then.

You might want to mow at right angles overlapping the
other passes if you have time as this wil also shred more
grass and brush.



_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[leonz]

If anyone is shopping for a FORD 917:

Wengers of Myerstown has one in mint condition
by the looks of it behind a Ford 2 wheel drive tractor in their lot.

I think the advert in Used Tractors For Sale at TractorHouse.com: John Deere Tractors, used farm tractors and farm equipment, tractors for sale, Case IH, New Holland, Agco, Kubota said it was 7,000.00 for the pair!!

_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[Brahmus]

Are you spinning it fast enough? I thought I remember reading that the aerodynamics of the blade caused the 45s to flatten out when spun at the proper rpm? Or was I just wishfully thinking?

 

[leonz]

Nope not wishfull thinking,


The mounting weldments do not allow the knives to become horizontal as there is only enough clearance between the weldments to mount the grass slicers using the A, F, and B rotors and the grass slicers are punched with a round hole not a slotted one which would allow the knives to become horizontal in use from the high speed rotation of the flail mower rotor and centrifugal force.

The current weldment positions would not allow a slotted grass slicer to be used due to the close lacing of the grass slicers on the flail mower rotors used on the A,F, and B flail mower rotors.


The current rotor and weldment placings/lacings would not and could not allow adequate clearance allowing the knives to use the aerodynamics of the grass slicers ground edge to become horizontal in flight when mowing as the grass slicer knives are closer together.


The rotor types offered are a compromise of sorts as the longer grass slicers allow a higher rotor height, a lower knive count and reduced number of knive rows.

Shorter knives would allow more knive rows and better cut and greater knive counts but it becomes an issue of cost
in production and offering a product for sale at a good price in the market place

_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[8404]

I just put about 15 hours of use on my new flail mower, this flail cuts with the nifes spinning in the same dirrection as the tractor moves im not shure the bennifits of this but as comparision my side arm flail mower cuts in reverse to the dirrection of travel and seems to have a much larger amount of vacume pulling the grass up and out the back of the cutter. It seems that most of the grass clipping on this mower gets thrown against the larg roller and doesnt get tossed out the back like i thought it would, now this isnt a probblem it just not what i thought would happen,
As far as performance goes this flail mower seems to load the tractor down just the same way as my 6 foot rotory cutter did it also bogs down in some areas of the feild just as the rotory cutter did so for me im still moweing at the same grownd speed as i did with the 6 foot rotory cutter. the main differance is that its cutting a wider path, it dosnt throw objects out the back not even grass clippings and when you do hit something like a rock its compleatly un-eventful. my 6 foot rotory mower has thrown wire and other metal objects into my rear tires and brocken out my windows, i cant see this ever happening with the flail.
As of now im mowing feilds that i previously mowed with rotory cutters and it left rows of dead grass and it will be a while till all the piled up grass clipping have rotted away.
the only thing i dont like is that it cant mow in reverse because the roller pushes the grass down out of the way of the cutter nives.
oh ya i ran over a tire today and all it did was make some noise and then jump over the tire the rotory cutter would have scared the heck out of me and then sent the tire into the next county

 

[leonz]

I just put about 15 hours of use on my new flail mower, this flail cuts with the nifes spinning in the same dirrection as the tractor moves im not shure the bennifits of this but as comparision my side arm flail mower cuts in reverse to the dirrection of travel and seems to have a much larger amount of vacume pulling the grass up and out the back of the cutter. It seems that most of the grass clipping on this mower gets thrown against the larg roller and doesnt get tossed out the back like i thought it would, now this isnt a probblem it just not what i thought would happen,
As far as performance goes this flail mower seems to load the tractor down just the same way as my 6 foot rotory cutter did it also bogs down in some areas of the feild just as the rotory cutter did so for me im still moweing at the same grownd speed as i did with the 6 foot rotory cutter. the main differance is that its cutting a wider path, it dosnt throw objects out the back not even grass clippings and when you do hit something like a rock its compleatly un-eventful. my 6 foot rotory mower has thrown wire and other metal objust into my rear tires and brocken out my windows, i cant see this ever happening with the flail.
As of now im mowing feilds that i previously mowed with rotory cutters and it left rows of dead grass and it will be a while till all the piled up grass clipping have rotted away.
the only thing i dont like is that it cant mow in reverse because the roller pushes the grass down out of the way of the cutter nives.
oh ya i ran over a tire today and all it did was make some noise and then jump over the tire the rotory cutter would have scared the heck out of me and then sent the tire into the next county

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am cetainly glad that the first test flight of
the 8404 flail mower went well and the new
beast of burden did well for you.

Just keep up with the regular greasing and
checking the V-belts occasionally.


You need to check the knives and hangers after
visiting with the old tire it smacked just to be
sure the cotter pins are still bent up if you have
them and check you knives for damage.



I am glad that the flailmower is meeting your
expectations.


_________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[KYThrill]

I want a flail mower and I have a decision to make. I found a used Alamo 62" flail mower for $1250 shipped to my door. From the pictures provided me, it looks immaculate, barely used and little to no rust. The seller claims it works and is ready to cut grass. However, I would have to buy it over the net, so the potential is always there to get a lemon.

My other option is a new Caroni TL1500 (59") for $1750 shipped.

Neither comes with a PTO shaft, but hopefully I have something already that will work.

I know everyone loves their Caroni's and I also hear good about Alamo, but I haven't read about anyone using their 62" model. I know the Alamo outweighs the Caroni by a good 350 pounds, which is good, since I use an implement as ballast for my FEL. Could it be too heavy for my tractor? I currently use a 569 lb tiller plus filled tires for ballast, and the Alamo is 815 pounds. Put the PTO lift capacity is 1600+ lbs, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I think both are centered on the PTO and the rear track of my TC25D is 62", so the Alamo seems to be a perfect fit (should completely mow my tracks).

Any suggestions?

 

[Rusty]

My other option is a new Caroni TL1500 (59") for $1750 shipped.

Neither comes with a PTO shaft, but hopefully I have something already that will work.

KYThrill - I assume the new Caroni TL1500 is from Agri Supply. Mine came with the PTO shaft. You should verify with them.

[qoute]I think both are centered on the PTO and the rear track of my TC25D is 62", so the Alamo seems to be a perfect fit (should completely mow my tracks).[/quote]

The Caroni TL 1500 has a fixed offset of 9.5" to the right (looking forward), so your left rear tire track will not be covered.

 

[leonz]

I want a flail mower and I have a decision to make. I found a used Alamo 62" flail mower for $1250 shipped to my door. From the pictures provided me, it looks immaculate, barely used and little to no rust. The seller claims it works and is ready to cut grass. However, I would have to buy it over the net, so the potential is always there to get a lemon.

My other option is a new Caroni TL1500 (59") for $1750 shipped.

Neither comes with a PTO shaft, but hopefully I have something already that will work.

I know everyone loves their Caroni's and I also hear good about Alamo, but I haven't read about anyone using their 62" model. I know the Alamo outweighs the Caroni by a good 350 pounds, which is good, since I use an implement as ballast for my FEL. Could it be too heavy for my tractor? I currently use a 569 lb tiller plus filled tires for ballast, and the Alamo is 815 pounds. Put the PTO lift capacity is 1600+ lbs, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I think both are centered on the PTO and the rear track of my TC25D is 62", so the Alamo seems to be a perfect fit (should completely mow my tracks).

Any suggestions?

====================================================================================================



The three Caroni TL model 1500 Millimeter width flail mower models
have a weight difference from 472 pounds to 485 pounds.

Parts are available for the both the Alamo and Caroni flail mowers.
All bearings are metric, all V belts are metric so thats not an issue.
The V belts and bearings are common and obtainable from Flailmaster,
Farm and Fleet, W.W. Grainger, McmasterCarr, NAPA and others.

The flail mower grass slicers for the Alamo Flail Mower are available
from several manufacturers.


Most of it depends on you, your mechanical ability and mowing conditions.

Do you even know which flail mower rotor is on the Alamo Flail Mower?
Do you know which knive type is on the Alamo Flail Mower?


Do you know which flail mower rotor you wish to purchase on the
1500 M.M. Caroni flail mower model?




____________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[leonz]

I want a flail mower and I have a decision to make. I found a used Alamo 62" flail mower for $1250 shipped to my door. From the pictures provided me, it looks immaculate, barely used and little to no rust. The seller claims it works and is ready to cut grass. However, I would have to buy it over the net, so the potential is always there to get a lemon.

My other option is a new Caroni TL1500 (59") for $1750 shipped.

Neither comes with a PTO shaft, but hopefully I have something already that will work.

I know everyone loves their Caroni's and I also hear good about Alamo, but I haven't read about anyone using their 62" model. I know the Alamo outweighs the Caroni by a good 350 pounds, which is good, since I use an implement as ballast for my FEL. Could it be too heavy for my tractor? I currently use a 569 lb tiller plus filled tires for ballast, and the Alamo is 815 pounds. Put the PTO lift capacity is 1600+ lbs, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I think both are centered on the PTO and the rear track of my TC25D is 62", so the Alamo seems to be a perfect fit (should completely mow my tracks).

Any suggestions?

If you purchase the Alamo flail mower parts
and repairs are no problem.

If you purchase the Alamo flail mower you
will have no warranty and buying it may be
an issue, but you will have zero issues
obtaining parts.

The other issue is you are capable of doing
your own repairs/bearing replacements, etc.

If you purchase the Caroni Flail Mower parts
are no problem and you have a valid warranty
from the date of purchase of the mounted
implement.

Keep in mind all bearings are metric.
Keep in mind all V-belts are metric.

The V belts used for both mowers are stock items
at NAPA, TSC, Kaman, McmasterCarr, Farm and Fleet
and many others.

You have to purchase a complete No. 6 Eurocardan
Power Take Off shaft for the Caroni Flail Mower.

You will need to buy complete Power Take Off shaft
for the Alamo Flail Mower.

If you buy the Caroni Flail Mower model you wish to have,
Agrisupply will ship a complete shaft for the flailmower
if you want to buy one for the flailmower and it WILL be
the right one. You will have be sure you measure the
Power Take Off to assure it is the proper length for your use.

You will have to measure the Power Take Off Shaft for the
Alamo Flail Mower and the Caroni to be sure it is the proper
length as well so its better to buy a complete Power Take Off
Shaft Assembly for either mower and if the Caroni Mower is
shipped with one all the better.

____________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[beppington]

The Caroni TM1900 did include a PTO shaft.

 

[KYThrill]

KYThrill - I assume the new Caroni TL1500 is from Agri Supply. Mine came with the PTO shaft. You should verify with them.

[qoute]I think both are centered on the PTO and the rear track of my TC25D is 62", so the Alamo seems to be a perfect fit (should completely mow my tracks).

The Caroni TL 1500 has a fixed offset to the right (looking forward), so your left rear tire track will not be covered.[/QUOTE]

The girl I talked to at Agri Supply said the TL1500 didn't come with the PTO (only the TM1900 did) and that they PTO shaft was another $112. I guess I would need to call again to see if I get the same answer.

 

[Rusty]

Do you know which Flailmower rotor you wish to purchase on the 1500 M.M. Caroni flail mower model?

leonz - Agri Supply only stocks the TL1500 with the FSC rotor.

 

[Rusty]

The girl I talked to at Agri Supply said the TL1500 didn't come with the PTO (only the TM1900 did) and that they PTO shaft was another $112. I guess I would need to call again to see if I get the same answer.

TYThrill - I bought the TL1500FSC, Agri Supply Item #53413 on 03/29/11 for $1,549.95 + 206.40 shipping for a total of $1,756.35 to Michigan (Zip 48732). It included the PTO shaft.

 

[leonz]

Congratulations on your purchase,

We welcome you as our newest member
of the Flail Mower Nation.

The Caroni family has been building farm
implements for a long time and like the
other manufacturers of American and
Italian farm machinery build a product
of high quality.


_______________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

One down 18,000 to go.:thumbsup: