Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[leonz]

leonz,

The number you quoted for rpm, should be the fps number, otherwise, velocity in feet per second. You can not get that high a bld tip velocity or rpm using a flail mower. There are some finish mower flails that will cut as good as any mower that is using sharp blades.

whoopsie -sorry about that i should have added/stated that is the blade tip speed of most if not all zero turn mowers not my flail mower.


I do remember the JD folks saying their units rotate at one hundred MPH
and the Motts were faster.

 

[J_J]

With a tip to tip diameter of 20 in, and 2000 shaft rpm, the MPH would be 118

15 in tip to tip, 2000 shaft rpm, MPH = 89

 

[sodamo]

The dolly I made for my dad's Caroni TM1900. Two ~82"-long 4x4's connected with two short pieces of 4x6's I had leftover laying around. Piece of 2x8 as a back-stop to set the roller against. Two short 2x6 pieces under the front corners, to keep the flail level & keep it from rolling forward. The level my dad has his roller set at takes a two-by (1.5") under the front corners to just about perfectly level the unit (front-to-back).

Nice. Chance of pic unloaded?

 

[beppington]

Nice. Chance of pic unloaded?

Sorry, I don't have any now, but will snap first chance I get.

 

[cbfomoco]

I think that this spring I am going to order a Flail mower. I am debating about what type of rotor or really which type of blade to get. Either the knife type or the hammer type. I am really leaning towards the hammer type or P rotor on the Caroni. I plan on checking with Agri Supply and see if they could special order one of the P rotor types. I have read the thread now twice. I have done some research on the net but can not find a real answer as to what type of knife or hammer is better. Also which is better for what? Which will last longer?

 

[J_J]

In general, the thickness of the flail blades will tell you how they are used. The thin Y type blades is for finish cut lawns/grass. The same type flail blades, but thicker, will still cut good, and last longer. As you get to the flat faced blades, you can cut a more dense grasses/weeds, and light wood. The large heavy flail hammers, of course will cut, tear, beat up on, destroy just about anything. On some of the flails, you can switch to different blades, and still get 100 % coverage. Just don't expect one type of flail to do good at everything.

Blades thickness could be .087 in, .196 in .13 in, .25 in

 

[beppington]

Just don't expect one type of flail to do good at everything.

I'm still not clear on why one of these two wouldn't do good at everything?

Can't these cut bigger stuff but also cut horizontally (parallel to the ground) for a smooth lawn cut? Where would these come up short?

 

[KennyV]

I have used finish cut and rough cut blades... They both cut BUT you have to back off quit a bit to not see the difference in the cut...

Guess thats why a lot of folks use a general purpose blade... "sort of" does both .

If you truly need a fine finish cut ... nothing beats the correct blade for the job... KennyV

 

[leonz]

Good afternoon,

If you desire to mow good turf grass and brush
continually the finish rotor is what you want to use.
The finish blade will work on heavy brush and winter
kill brush and it takes a bit longer but either way once
it gets knicked down to the sod the bad brush has very
little opportunity to return.

A hardened or non hardened grass slicer will last you
along time in any case.

If you are clearing land the P rotor/hammer knife is what you
would need for sure but if its only overgrown scrub the F rotor
or the B rotor will do it(with the F rotor cutting everything
to shreds slowly so it cannot return as thick and any native grasses
or seeded grasses will grow quickly as they are no longer choked by
weeds.


The finish knives are less costly to buy than the hammer knives as well
so please look at that issue when you begin narrowing down the problem/opportunity of selection.

The grass slicers can be purchased hardened
or non hardened have more total knife edge
length versus the scoop or cup knife edge
which is the width of the mower in coverage
with the overlap.

My grass slicer knives are reversable and have
1.5 inches of cutting knife edge on each side
for total of three inches per blade
if you purchased the FRTM 1900FSC for example
you would have 112 grass slicer knives spread
over the 4 rows of knife hangers for mowers
75 inch cutting width.

The thumbnail picture on the left that J.J. has
uploaded is the grass slicer which is used successfully
for brush and grass especially in my case where I use
the same knive for both jobs.


The width of the scoop knive allows for the blade to cut
along its entire width of cutting face BUT it will expose the
entire face to pontential damage with regard to object strikes
and possible knife breakage where one grass slicer is only exposing
1.5 inches of slicing edge per revolution.


The issue is maintaining balance on the rotor more
than anything as a broken knife on one hanger requires
you to replace it or remove its opposite knife to maintain
the rotor in balance.

The same applies to the "scoop or cup" knive and if you have
a rotor with three rows of knives you have to have spares as
there is no opposing throw wieght to cancel the G forces created
by a missing knife as the hangers are 120 degrees apart versus
90 degrees with 4 sets of knive hangers.

The two row rotor can have the opposing knife removed but you have
a Mohawk or rooster tail thats left.

With our mathews we have tapered grass slicers and they are no longer
made by matthews and I have to see about custom ordering new ones when the time comes and i will let everyone know how much they cost.

The tapered knives are a bit more forgiving and do not damage as quickly due to the airfoil design of the cutting edge and I have knives that still in excellent condition after 30 years of use and occasional sharpening.

 

[leonz]

I think that this spring I am going to order a Flail mower. I am debating about what type of rotor or really which type of blade to get. Either the knife type or the hammer type. I am really leaning towards the hammer type or P rotor on the Caroni. I plan on checking with Agri Supply and see if they could special order one of the P rotor types. I have read the thread now twice. I have done some research on the net but can not find a real answer as to what type of knife or hammer is better. Also which is better for what? Which will last longer?

The hammer knive would be overkill for sod but it would knock everything back each and every time you mow and the knive cost is greater per unit as they are a cast allow typically and then sharpened.

The quality of cut is what you are after more than anything as the hammer knive will tear and destroy everything
and the finish knive will not it will simply shred it to compost and leave nice sod if thats what you wnat or have already-meaning sod ground thats overgrown- the finish knive will require you to go over weeds and stems a second time to shred them to nothing but its not that hard or troublesome when you are out mowing and once its done the heavy brush will not come back unless its not mowed annually.

 

[spo307]

I have never used the hammer knives before, I have y blades on my flails, the 6 foot has heavy gauge, I think .265, my 7 foot has ( again ) I think .211, with the .265 I can go over a hedge or bush in 2 passes, ( makes a little noise ) they stay sharper longer when cutting grass than the .211, it might just be me, but the lighter .211's appear to leave a finer cut. jmo.

 

[spo307]

Nice job on the dolly, I need to do this to my 7 foot to make it easier to move around, weighs #1000, so I think I need to weld some angle and use bigger casters



.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have a Caroni TM1900 with the B rotor and heavy duty (1/4 inch forged) blades. It is not a true finish cut but much closer than what you can get with even a sharp bladed brush hog. It also handles brush easily up to 2 inches.

If you will be cutting brush other than pruning clippings I would stay away from a finish flail. The knives don't have the mass to deal with brush effectively and by doubling the number of knives you dissipate the energy that any one of them has to cut through tough material efficiently.

Caroni mowers are not really matched with any hammer I am aware of. I'd be careful about putting too much mass on the rotor if you are thinking of going that route. I wouldn't do it as the heavy duty forged knives require all the power you can reasonably deliver to this mower when in heavy brush. What use is a hammer if you don't have more power to bring to bear? The cup style knives would probably be fine but those are finish, not rough or heavy duty blades.

 

[J_J]

leonz

A couple of years ago when I was inquiring about the different blades for my flail mower, from Flail Masters, They asked me to send them one of the blades. I sent them one of my blades, and they said they could match it or make some just like it. Apparently they have the ability to make just about any blade. I asked for a sample of about 6 different blades/hammers, and they sent me 6 different blades.

 

[leonz]

Thanks Much J.J. I will dig one of the old ones out of the scrap bucket with the original dimensions for the OEM knives.

I wil get pictures of the hangers and knives when the wife shows me how to do it and send them here.

 

[cbfomoco]

I will me mowing a wide rage of items with it. I have been mowing an old tralier park ( compleate with junk still in it) that is being slowley turned into a park, I have also mowed mantained fields, old fields(with trees regrowing etc) multi floral rose bushes, weeds, etc. I live in WV which is rarley with out some type of hill and rock etc. I am mowing along rivers, on top of mountians and everything in the middle. I have been doing all of this with 2 brush hogs. One I consider junk basicaly as It really does not mow well but I take it to jobs where if it breaks it is no big loss( ie hit a big stump, rock, mowing down small trees , Trash, etc). The other brush hog the side is removabe and I do mow hay with it. It does a pretty good job with a clean cut. I know that a flail will not totally do what I am doing with either but is rather a totally different beast. I know that for some jobs I will still be using the junk brush hog, Others the better one. What I hope to do is use the flail as a go between. It will be wider and I am hoping for a good cut quality. With that said though I dont know what type of rotor and blades or knifes I need. I will not really be cutting down trees with it but I will likely hit rocks, stumps trash etc with it. I would like it to give a high quality finish with one pass. ( not leave stubs sticking up etc, also I dont like having to remow espically when I am charging someone.) I want to be able to mow old fields( that are growing up with multi floral rose, small sapling, weeds etc and have a nice finish) I also want to be able to mow the park with it and leave a nice finish( no stubs etc). So what type of blades should I be looking at. I know that the hammer type cost more to replace but most do not have shackels. So if you take the cost of both the shackle and the knife and compair it to a single hammer I think it closes the gap some on cost. With all of that said would a B type rotor or the P type Rotor from Caroni be better for me? Also in looking at the picture of both the B and P rotor the mounts look the same( best i can tell in the picture). So if I ordered the P rotor type cold I also order the B blades and switch between the 2 for the best of both.( I do understand that it would be all the blades no mix and match) I don't mind spending a little more if it will work better for me. ( a few 100 not 1000) Lastly and maybe someone else can tell me I am assuming that the P rotor is a hammer type blade in the picture, If it is not and actually a scoop type how does that compair. Thanks for the input.

Link to where I got the picture Caroni S.p.a.

 

[leonz]

I will me mowing a wide rage of items with it. I

have been mowing an old trailer park ( complete with junk still in it) that is

being slowly turned into a park, I have also mowed mantained fields, old fields

(with trees regrowing etc.) multi flora rose bushes, weeds, etc.


I live in WV which is rarely with out some type of hill and rock etc. I am

mowing along rivers, on top of mountians and everything in the middle.


I have been doing all of this with 2 brush hogs. One I consider junk as It really

does not mow well but I take it to jobs where if it breaks it is no big loss( ie hit

a big stump, rock, mowing down small trees, trash, etc.


On the other brush hog the side is removable and I do mow hay with it. It does

a pretty good job with a clean cut.


I know that a flail will not totally do what I am doing with either but

is rather a totally different beast.


I know that for some jobs I will still be using the junk brush hog, Others the

better one. What I hope to do is use the flail as a go between. It will be wider

and I am hoping for a good cut quality.


With that said though I dont know what type of rotor and blades or knifes I

need. I will not really be cutting down trees with it but I will likely hit rocks,

stumps, trash, etc. with it.


I would like it to give a high quality finish with one pass. ( not leave

stubs sticking up etc, also I dont like having to remow espically when I am

charging someone.


I want to be able to mow old fields that are growing up with multiflora rose,

small saplings, weeds, etc., and have a nice finish.


I also want to be able to mow the park with it and leave a nice finish no stubs

etc.


So what type of blades should I be looking at. I know that the hammer type

cost more to replace but most do not have shackels. So if you take the cost of

both the shackle and the knife and compare it to a single hammer I think it

closes the gap some on cost.


With all of that said would a B type rotor or the P type Rotor from Caroni be

better for me?


Also in looking at the picture of both the B and P rotor the mounts look the

same best I can tell in the picture.


So if I ordered the P rotor type could I also order the B blades and switch between

the 2 for the best of both. I do understand that it would be all the blades no

mix and match.


I don't mind spending a little more if it will work better for me-a few 100 not


1,000.


Lastly and maybe someone else can tell me I am assuming that the P rotor is a

hammer type blade in the picture, If it is not and actually a scoop type how

does that compair.




Thanks for the input.


This is the link to where I got the picture.

Caroni S.p.a.

A) That is a scoop/cup blade on the P rotor



B) about your junk situation: you can do what Iron horse does in Australia and

solves his impact damage issues quickly-My friend Iron horse mounts a

landscape rake in front of his tractor to catch anything and everything before it

is smacked with his flail mowers and this saves him huge amounts of work and

expense.


This will solve your issue the first time locating stumps and junk and then you

can bypass it after you pull it out of the way or go around it in the case of

stumps.


My friend Island tractor has the B rotor with 2 rows of knives and he has

wacked fence posts and a log and the rotor and mower have survived with

excellence.


About your hay you wont have useable hay unless you follow the mower with a

chopper to make silage using a flail mower.


If you mount a landscape rake in front of the tractor you can use a B or F rotor

mower with confidence and the abilty to find foreign objects before they find

the underbelly of your tractor causing damage to the engine or transmission or

hoses.


You need to look at the pictures that Island Tractor has on the site here showing

what he does with his "Caroni 2 row rotor mower with the 2 rows of grass

slicers, and Dr. Jays pictures of what he does in Florida on his property with

his "F Rotor" to decide which you would rather have.


When Island tractor encounters heavy scrub he backs over it slowly with his

flail mower and then drives forward and shreds its safely and eliminating the

possibilty of damaging his Kubota tractor.



The nice thing about the flailmower in general is the rear roller as it will aid you

in reducing or eliminating the possibility of damaging your mower.



You can mow in the highest mower setting and then go over it at a lower

setting again the next time you mow and the more you slice/shred everthing the

less opportunity there will be for anything bad or heavy brush to come back

forever.



Further:



If you mount a landscape rake wider than the wheel width of you tractor you

can use the A, B, or F rotor and knives with success and be assured the mower

and tractor will not be damaged.



After you have cleared everything to your satisfaction you can remove the rake

and use it normally for other jobs.


We want you succeed and buying a flailmower and a lanscape rake to protect

your tractor and mower by mounting it up front is the best way to do it .


If you buy a rake with or without rear wheels-if you do not have a loader to

mount it on- you can buy a front three point hitch for your tractor from


www.Buckeyetractorcompany.com



The other option is simply mow in reverse and then mow forward in

your questionable areas but the potential for damaging the rear roller is greater

which is why I recommend doing what Iron horse has done with his mowing

tractor in Australia as it has saved him much grief with his tractor and flail

mowers.


About Me:

The land I mow for my father is cleared and free of debris but very heavy in

brush and weed stalks.


I mow everyrthing with my finish mower flail mower and it takes longer with

heavy brush and scrub but it becomes carpet after I mow it every year.


leon

 

[IslandTractor]

As Leonz noted the P rotor is not for hammers but mounts the finish cut scoops. The B rotor and blades are the ones you want IMO. I'll post a few photos later of thick grass mixed with brush pre and post B rotor treatment.

 

[IslandTractor]

Here are a few. More to follow

 

[leonz]

Man that proves there are no sneaky snakes right there:thumbsup:
:drool: