Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[IslandTractor]

I know this is a general flail thread but as there are a lot of Caroni users and potential buyers reading it I thought I'd give some info on replacement parts that might be of use. All parts are available from AgriSupply and they are pretty good about shipping quickly. However, the cost of their flail knives and associated hardware is pretty high compared with what Flailmaster sells. Unfortunately, Flailmaster doesn't carry Caroni specific parts and they don't sell metric parts. Still, through trial and error I have found a few things that might be of help.

First, the Flailmaster M-108381 heavy duty forged knife is exactly the same dimension and weight as the Caroni flail. They cost $1.45 each or less than half of what the Caroni flail costs from AgriSupply. Over time you'll definitely need some to replace losses (especially if you are in rocky areas like New England).

The other parts that need replacing with the flails are the clevis and nut/bolt. AgriSupply charges dearly for the clevis at $6.49 each. The grade 8 10mm x 80mm nut and bolt costs $1.39 which isn't too bad.

I have found that nearly all my replacements have come as a result of clevis failure. Of course if the clevis fails you lose both knives too. The nut and bolt need to be replaced too so each loss mounts up to over $13 in parts if you buy from Caroni.

Unfortunately, I have not yet found an alternative source of the metric sized clevis. Basic dimensions are 55mm tall and 45mm wide outside with a 10mm bolt hole. Flailmaster does not have anything that matches. Closest thing flailmaster has is their beefier M100761 which is just a 1/8 inch too wide and one ounce heavier. I could live with one ounce heavier especially if you replace all of them but the clevis is too wide for the Caroni mount. I tried grinding one to size but it leaves the ears being narrower than the original Caroni clevis ears so figured that was not a good idea. Too bad as the bigger gauge Flailmaster clevis costs less than half of what Caroni charges for a smaller gauge and the larger one would be more durable.

So, that's what I've learned over the past few years on replacement parts. Anyone know of a good source for a metric clevis?

 

[Arcane]

IT,
Have you any recommendations on a finish (scoop) knife for the Caroni?
Best regards for the 4th from 15 miles east of you,
Arcane

 

[IslandTractor]

IT,
Have you any recommendations on a finish (scoop) knife for the Caroni?
Best regards for the 4th from 15 miles east of you,
Arcane

Happy 4th to you too.

I haven't looked specifically for the scoop type blades as I don't use my mower to cut a lawn. However, I have looked at every blade in the Flailmaster catalog and can report that they have a few slightly different styles and sizes of that type of blade. Some are stamped ($) and others are forged and much heavier ($$$). I'd think you would want the stamped type.

I can also tell you that there is a very helpful and sweet sounding Belle by the name of Amanda who answers the phone at Flailmaster and she might be able to help. She can certainly get you a copy of the Flailmaster catalog (800 251 4020).

If I were in your shoes I'd first measure and weigh the blades you are currently using (Harbor Freight in Fall River sells a nice little digitial scale and a plastic caliper for about $10 each that I find handy for this sort of thing). The catalog has more info on sizes than their website but even the catalog doesn't list weights. Amanda might be able to help with weight but a I recall she doesn't have precise data on weights, just shipping weight.

The difficult issue is that as you are changing blade type, you'll need to change them all at once along with new bolts/nuts and that means $$ even with Flailmaster prices for 60+ blades and hardware. That is why I'd consider ordering one of a few different types just to be able to accurately weigh them and compare the measurements of length and width against a pair of what you currently have.

I'm looking at the catalog now and see the various stamped cup style blades are all approximately 3 inches long and a bit under 3 inches wide. If you have the finish Caroni then I recall you don't currently use a clevis to attach the blades. That could be an issue if the current blades are much longer than 3 inches. Needing to add a clevis would be both expensive (see above) and add too much weight.

Don't forget to consider the mounting hardware. All the US made flail blades seem to have 1/2 inch mounting holes which are no problem for the Caroni 10mm bolts. Do stick with 10mm mounting bolts as the mounting bolts for American flails are slightly larger than 10mm (7/16) and do NOT fit into the Caroni mounting ears.

Good luck.

 

[beppington]

It'd be sweet if we could narrow down exactly what scoop blades will work.

 

[IslandTractor]

It'd be sweet if we could narrow down exactly what scoop blades will work.

It would depend on which Caroni mower. I would have no trouble using the scoops sold by Flailmaster for the JD mower as replacements for the twin heavy duty blades on the rough cut TM1900. I'm not so sure about the length of the scoop blades compared to the total length of the fine cut knives used on the fine cut Caroni mowers. With the TM1900 I'd be comfortable just switching out the two heavy blades for one scoop and keep the clevis. Geometry and total length would be the same. Weight would be less which should not be an issue.

 

[J_J]

I had talked to Flailmaster a couple of years ago, and I ask for, and they sent a sample of about 6 blades for me to checkout.

 

[beppington]

It would depend on which Caroni mower. I would have no trouble using the scoops sold by Flailmaster for the JD mower as replacements for the twin heavy duty blades on the rough cut TM1900. I'm not so sure about the length of the scoop blades compared to the total length of the fine cut knives used on the fine cut Caroni mowers. With the TM1900 I'd be comfortable just switching out the two heavy blades for one scoop and keep the clevis. Geometry and total length would be the same. Weight would be less which should not be an issue.

Oh crud, I may have confused terms. I'd like to be able to switch out the original "Y" double blades for a single blade that swings parallel to the ground for a smoother cut ... like these; What are these called?:

These look like they'd give a smoothed cut lawn than the original Y blades.

 

[Eagleview]

They are cast hammers , made of Manganese Iron . They will not fit as the ears on your drum won't accept them . You can however buy pressed metal blades that act in a similar way but use the same shackle as you have now .

Flail Mower Knives

 

[beppington]

They are cast hammers , made of Manganese Iron . They will not fit as the ears on your drum won't accept them . You can however buy pressed metal blades that act in a similar way but use the same shackle as you have now .

Flail Mower Knives

Which one(s) on that list?

Maybe the GE709-D ($2.38) or GE709-P ($1.33)?

 

[IslandTractor]

Which one(s) on that list?

Maybe the GE709-D ($2.38) or GE709-P ($1.33)?

Those two blades are JD equivalents and are identical in size and weight. The more expensive one has some sort of "hardonite" treatment so is presumably a little tougher.

Of note, the blades hanging from a TM1900 clevis would be more than an inch longer than the standard Caroni knives. I haven't measured but it is possible they would hit the top of the mower. If they were used without the clevis they would be a bit shorter than standard but more importantly would not be centered unless you also used bushings on the retaining bolt.

 

[KennyV]

These look like they'd give a smoothed cut lawn than the original Y blades.

Those hammer blades are not for smooth cutting of grass, they are for breaking up large dense material...
The light Y blades are finish blades and will give a very nice finish cut of light material like grass...
The heavier Y is a compromise between the two. It will handle heavier material and still give an ok finish cut.

The lightest two piece Y will give the nicest finish cut. KennyV

 

[J_J]

Kenny is right about the quality of cut with the hammer blades. You may get a couple of cuts on new blades, but after they are worn, you are just tearing the grass off. Also, you can not just replace the hammer blds with fine cut blds, as the spacing is not correct. On my hyd flail, there are about 88 hangers, with two blades per hanger. On a hammer flail, there might be only 66 hangers for the hammers.

You might be able to use that stamped steel bld as the front edge is thinner, and will probably give a better cut than the hammer bld.

You should also know that if you lose or damage a bld in the center, that you can take a set of blds off the end and replace the damage set. If it has four rows of hangers, you take off 4 sets of blades around the drum, to keep the drum balanced.

The owner before me also renovated lawns by taking off the Y blds, and replacing them with a single straight bld for cutting slits in the lawn.

 

[IslandTractor]

There is a difference between "hammers" or "axes" and "scoop blades". Both are one piece and differ from the y shaped pairs that are commonly found on flails. As I understand it, the hammers and axes are solid,heavy and designed for heavy duty brush clearing but the scoop blades that beppington was refering to are in fact made for fine cutting of lawns. One scoop blade weighs about the same as a pair of fine cut y shape knives. Maybe IronHorse will chime in and clarify.

 

[J_J]

Here are some pictures of some that might be used for fine cut grass cutting.

 

[IslandTractor]

Here are some pictures of some that might be used for fine cut grass cutting.

Those are the scoop type I was referring to.

 

[Arcane]

So, I'm thinking to order a few different ones to see which one will fit over the clevis and be the right length? Those are from flailmaster? Thanks in advance.

 

[CCWKen]

I just ordered some "cup" knives from Ag Parts USA. Well, I shouldn't say just. I ordered them on 6/21 and haven't heard a word from them yet. They seem VERY slow to ship! I checked the order online and all it says is "Pending Fulfilment". It sounds to me they haven't shipped them YET. Also, their shipping is VERY expensive.

 

[IslandTractor]

I just ordered some "cup" knives from Ag Parts USA. Well, I shouldn't say just. I ordered them on 6/21 and haven't heard a word from them yet. They seem VERY slow to ship! I checked the order online and all it says is "Pending Fulfilment". It sounds to me they haven't shipped them YET. Also, their shipping is VERY expensive.

Flailmaster shipped immediately and they have free shipping for orders over $100.

 

[KennyV]

The 4 that J J has pictured are good finish blades, the second one is the most robust of all and will lend itself to more accidental abuse cutting small sticks and brush... If you are mowing a clean lawn area you can get a lot of life from almost any finish blade... but too many of us, myself included, tend to occasionally mow into places to reclaim over grown spots... depends on what you are mowing. KennyV

 

[sweettractors]

I have not read the entire thread, so this may be posted earlier. We are a dealer for Phoenix Flail Mowers and here is a link to more info about them for those that are interested in quality at affordable prices. Ken Sweet

http://www.unifarm.biz/component/option,com_virtuemart/page,shop.browse/category_id,8/Itemid,34/