Will UAW Strike?

[lilranch2001]

I swear, some people believe in pies in the sky!

 

[Hay Dude]

Maybe you can get with your brother-in-law in the industry and have him step you through how they determine what price to sell vehicles for and why ICE is being phased out due to performance issues. It is not that ICE is evil. It's just no longer makes sense for many of the people's trips. I am not in favor of having a dictator in Russia or the middle east determine the price of my fuel.I do have 220 volts to my house tapped off of a new three phase line so there is no trucks involved to haul liquid fuels. National security and future of the kids and future generations that concern me. I am opposed to the do nothing mindset and just turn the automotive supply over to China.. I don't buy into global warming is an issue that is going to be addressed by EVs and no one in the right mind does. Again EVs just make dollar sense to many of us that are planning to live several decades into the future.

Will you ever learn that EV’s are recharged by fossil fuels or nuclear energy?
Maybe vote for folks who work towards energy independence so we don’t have to worry as much about dictators, OPEC and foreign energy sources?
Too much of the EV industry is reliant upon fossil fuels for charging (same pollution as ICE), taxpayer funded infrastructure (we’re broke/34 trillion in debt) exploiting African children for minerals (immoral), and Chinese batteries and parts (hostile nation)
You are actually promoting the further downfall of America (as if we could fall much further, but we can) when you buy EVs.

Just give it up man. Your love of EV’s is admirable, but clouding your logic of what’s good for the country. Too many people suffer for the few who feel better. Clean burning ICE or hybrids are the answer.

 

[Oaktree]

Clean burning ICE or hybrids are the answer.

I don't think there is just one answer. EVs might make sense for suburbanites who have an easy way to recharge at home, but they're less practical for those who drive long distances, apartment dwellers or live in areas with high electric prices. Agree that some sort of hybrid (or EV with a self-contained generation system) makes the most sense for much of the population.

If straight EVs are the wonder vehicles that some claim them to be, why do the powers-that-be feel the need to force them on us?

 

[riptides]

And POTUS is gonna hook those utility lines to the sky and capture stray bolts of lightning to feed your EV when the overloaded grid fries…..

Last I heard grids were part of a capitalist's theory infrastructure buildout.

I'd start with your local utility conglomerate.

 

[lilranch2001]

My local “ conglomerate “ is a REMC!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Will you ever learn that EV’s are recharged by fossil fuels or nuclear energy?
Maybe vote for folks who work towards energy independence so we don’t have to worry as much about dictators, OPEC and foreign energy sources?
Too much of the EV industry is reliant upon fossil fuels for charging (same pollution as ICE), taxpayer funded infrastructure (we’re broke/34 trillion in debt) exploiting African children for minerals (immoral), and Chinese batteries and parts (hostile nation)
You are actually promoting the further downfall of America (as if we could fall much further, but we can) when you buy EVs.

Just give it up man. Your love of EV’s is admirable, but clouding your logic of what’s good for the country. Too many people suffer for the few who feel better. Clean burning ICE or hybrids are the answer.

I think there's a side of you warming to the ideal of gassing up on sunshine.

I just got back from taking a walk. I'm starting to think you're clean burning ICE may be an oxymoron statement.

You may consider setting down with a group of 8-year-old boys and girls to get a better picture of what the future is going to look like.

National debt is a disgrace, but the line share of it was barrowed to give to the baby boomer generation. That may include you because I know it includes me.

What do you think about BP plays to invest a billion dollars in the EV charging structure.

The first 10% of that has already been committed to buying $100 million worth of Tesla superchargers for their gas stations.

Borrowing money to drill oil wells and build refineries as well as gas stations is getting more difficult by the hour. Decision makers with money knows that ICE is going to fade and investments in such will be giving diminishing returns for the next 100 years.

If a farm boy grew up milking cows by hand and working in tobacco patch was able to realize in 2019 that EVs here to stay I don't understand your hangup on not being able to see into the future?

 

[lilranch2001]

I think there's a side of you warming to the ideal of gassing up on sunshine.

I just got back from taking a walk. I'm starting to think you're clean burning ICE may be an oxymoron statement.

You may consider setting down with a group of 8-year-old boys and girls to get a better picture of what the future is going to look like.

National debt is a disgrace, but the line share of it was barrowed to give to the baby boomer generation. That may include you because I know it includes me.

What do you think about BP plays to invest a billion dollars in the EV charging structure.

The first 10% of that has already been committed to buying $100 million worth of Tesla superchargers for their gas stations.

Borrowing money to drill oil wells and build refineries as well as gas stations is getting more difficult by the hour. Decision makers with money knows that ICE is going to fade and investments in such will be giving diminishing returns for the next 100 years.

If a farm boy grew up milking cows by hand and working in tobacco patch was able to realize in 2019 that EVs here to stay I don't understand your hangup on not being able to see into the future?

And EV isnt an oxymoron, burning natural gas, coal, nuclear, and a little bit of wind and sun, but how much natural resources are being used to create the wind and sun and how many birds and other critters are being killed by those technologies?

You just continue to show the end of you that deposits dung on these threads.

It’s to bad, once apon a time I had some level of respect for you.

But have totally lost it due to your total hypocrisy

 

[Torvy]

The root cause of the so-called demise of ICE is the ill-conceived machinizations of world "leaders" who punish those who don't buy the malarkey. BP (and others) "invest" in green energy because of government action, not because it is otherwise profitable.

 

[2manyrocks]

One of the last hydroelectric dams built by TVA was completed here in the 1970s. In order to build the lake, they used the power to acquire a lot of the most fertile and level (around here) river bottom farm land by forced sale from the farmers who owned it.

I don't know how many farmers got turned into factory workers in the process.

Also, not far away, they also took about 2,000 acres of productive farm land to build a nuclear plant along with several others in the TVA region. They got the local plant about 60 percent completed, but then abandoned the project around 1984 after spending about $1.5 billion on it, and then realizing that it would bankrupt them to complete it.

So exactly where are they going to find more land to build hydroelectric and nuclear plants, and how much is all that going to cost to power all those EVs? And whose land are they going to take this time by using the power of eminent domain?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I don't think there is just one answer. EVs might make sense for suburbanites who have an easy way to recharge at home, but they're less practical for those who drive long distances, apartment dwellers or live in areas with high electric prices. Agree that some sort of hybrid (or EV with a self-contained generation system) makes the most sense for much of the population.

If straight EVs are the wonder vehicles that some claim them to be, why do the powers-that-be feel the need to force them on us?

I expect most reading this will die without ever owning an EV. EVs will be slow in coming until they happen overnight.

I know from my little experience with the Toyota hybrid technology that is a good choice for many people.

I realize most 72-year-old men with serious physical limitations are not going to do a 1600 mile cross country round trip in an EV. Sadly, today Tesla is the only technology that enables that in the USA but that is about to change thanks to Tesla and BP.

People buying Tesla's today are not buying them to save the planet. As noted here to make EVs is hard on the planet just like punching holes and sucking out hydrocarbons is not good for the planet.

ICE vehicles are fading out and EVs are moving to replace them at a continued fast rate for financial reasons, not environmental reasons. Many of us are one health crisis away from having our keys taken away from us.

Full Self Driving is a wonderful feature for old men wanting to be less of a burden on their families. From my experience with the beta version, the robo tax is concept is near at hand or within the next 5 years which should free us from even worrying about owning a vehicle going forward.

Because the Tesla is in the body shop, I'm driving the Leaf so I am relearning dimming of the headlights. By the way, a three coat paint system makes paint jobs more expensive.

 

[Snobdds]

Last I heard grids were part of a capitalist's theory infrastructure buildout.

I'd start with your local utility conglomerate.

Do only capitalists build grids...?

As opposed to what other type of grid, assumed to be brilliantly built by sodalists?

There is only one utility because we as a society decided it was best to only have one set of utility lines and infrastructure going everywhere. Plus the capital investment to have multiple companies with infrastructure is huge, there is just no need.

Utilities use to be heavily subsidized by .gov. In return for that, utilities are governed by joint powers boards of company and community elected officials.

Conglomerates...yeah.

 

[Snobdds]

One of the last hydroelectric dams built by TVA was completed here in the 1970s. In order to build the lake, they used the power to acquire a lot of the most fertile and level (around here) river bottom farm land by forced sale from the farmers who owned it.

I don't know how many farmers got turned into factory workers in the process.

Also, not far away, they also took about 2,000 acres of productive farm land to build a nuclear plant along with several others in the TVA region. They got the local plant about 60 percent completed, but then abandoned the project around 1984 after spending about $1.5 billion on it, and then realizing that it would bankrupt them to complete it.

So exactly where are they going to find more land to build hydroelectric and nuclear plants, and how much is all that going to cost to power all those EVs? And whose land are they going to take this time by using the power of eminent domain?

I don't disagree. Getting green power via wind, solar, or hydro takes lots of space.

Bill Gates is building a new Nutra Nuclear Power plant in Wyoming right on the major Grid path. I think it's a salt water nuclear thing, but don't quote me.

The green energy crowd is in conflict right now. They want EV but they don't want Nuclear. They would rather consume giants tracks of "Green" space. They are shooting their nose to spite their face.

 

[lilranch2001]

I expect most reading this will die without ever owning an EV. EVs will be slow in coming until they happen overnight.

I know from my little experience with the Toyota hybrid technology that is a good choice for many people.

I realize most 72-year-old men with serious physical limitations are not going to do a 1600 mile cross country round trip in an EV. Sadly, today Tesla is the only technology that enables that in the USA but that is about to change thanks to Tesla and BP.

People buying Tesla's today are not buying them to save the planet. As noted here to make EVs is hard on the planet just like punching holes and sucking out hydrocarbons is not good for the planet.

ICE vehicles are fading out and EVs are moving to replace them at a continued fast rate for financial reasons, not environmental reasons. Many of us are one health crisis away from having our keys taken away from us.

Full Self Driving is a wonderful feature for old men wanting to be less of a burden on their families. From my experience with the beta version, the robo tax is concept is near at hand or within the next 5 years which should free us from even worrying about owning a vehicle going forward.

Because the Tesla is in the body shop, I'm driving the Leaf so I am relearning dimming of the headlights. By the way, a three coat paint system makes paint jobs more expensive.

Again, you gloss over the fact that EV is ineffective in helping the environment in which most of you EV FREAKS TOUT!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Again, you gloss over the fact that EV is ineffective in helping the environment in which most of you EV FREAKS TOUT!

Are you trying to say that you as an ICE freak is a better position than an EV freak?

Does that not make both of us just freaks?

You need to understand I grew up as an FFA member and the pledge was to work for better days through better ways.

 

[2manyrocks]

I imagine most of TVA's hydroelectric dams were already completed before many of today's environmental laws and regulations went into effect. It's not so easy to build power plants these days.

 

[lilranch2001]

Are you trying to say that you as an ICE freak is a better position than an EV freak?

Does that not make both of us just freaks?

You need to understand I grew up as an FFA member and the pledge was to work for better days through better ways.

No from my perspective I am not a freak of any sort, ICE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR WELL OVER 100 years, and has gotten better and better, more and more efficient and cleaner and cleaner.

EV has been around as long, and it stood still, even stalled for most of the last century, so all your rambling about how good it is, is just that. RAMBLING!

When EV makes that kinds of continuous strides for a long period of time, then I may change, until then you are mostly burning hydrocarbons in your EV and you continue to be a hypocrite!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

No from my perspective I am not a freak of any sort, ICE HAS BEEN AROUND FOR WELL OVER 100 years, and has gotten better and better, more and more efficient and cleaner and cleaner.

EV has been around as long, and it stood still, even stalled for most of the last century, so all your rambling about how good it is, is just that. RAMBLING!

When EV makes that kinds of continuous strides for a long period of time, then I may change, until then you are mostly burning hydrocarbons in your EV and you continue to be a hypocrite!

It is good that we can agree that you're not an ICE freak and I'm not an EV freak.

Do try to get with a group of 8-year-old boys and girls and I think you'll be surprised what the future is going to be like. The fossil fuel era for transportation is fading faster than any of us realize. Our kids just turned 26 so I may be a little more grounded in the reality of the future as kids see it.

The kids being born today are very different than we was 50 or 100 years ago.

Perhaps the major difference between the two of us is I see myself as a change leader and you do not, which is perfectly fine. Do you yet see energy becoming something that is relative free in your future? We need the EVs to take advantage of that development.

 

[lilranch2001]

It is good that we can agree that you're not an ICE freak and I'm not an EV freak.

Do try to get with a group of 8-year-old boys and girls and I think you'll be surprised what the future is going to be like. The fossil fuel era for transportation is fading faster than any of us realize. Our kids just turned 26 so I may be a little more grounded in the reality of the future as kids see it.

The kids being born today are very different than we was 50 or 100 years ago.

Perhaps the major difference between the two of us is I see myself as a change leader and you do not, which is perfectly fine. Do you yet see energy becoming something that is relative free in your future? We need the EVs to take advantage of that development.

You did not comprehend very well, I did not agree…..
But then comprehension does not seem to suit you.

Also my 17 yr old and 19 yr old grandchildren do not seem to agree with your take, they both drive ICE cars, and my Grandson is currently looking at upgrading to an ICE PICKUP now that he is working for an excavation contractor

 

[5030]

Borrowing money to drill oil wells and build refineries as well as gas stations is getting more difficult by the hour. Decision makers with money knows that ICE is going to fade and investments in such will be giving diminishing returns for the next 100 years.

That is 100% dependent on the current and future administrations. Get rid of the 'green new deal' idiots and get on with petro chemicals. The BOTTOM line is, the grid in it's present form cannot support wholesale EV charging as Newsom in California found out earlier this year.

You cannot have it if the infrastructure won't support it. I have 3 phase here at the farm as well but I don't have anything to charge up except my cordless tools.

Like I said, I'd buy a hybrid (if the cost of one was in line, which it's not), but for hauling, they aren't practical...yet. Haul you butt around, maybe. Hauling hay or crops to the elevator, not gonna happen.

Go back to your EV thread, this is about the UAW strike which really has zip to do with EV's, anyway.

next week will be interesting with Stellantis and GM I suspect. Waiting for Fain to call a walkout at GM's 'Propulsion Systems' plant in Toledo, aka: Powertrain. That plant is key to GM's supply of parts, especially transmissions. Same applies to Stellantis' Toledo Machining in Perrysburg, Ohio. A walkout at those 2 facilities will almost cripple both GM and Stellantis almost immediately.

Next week will be interesting.

Finally, the Marshall, Michigan joint venture between Fords and the Chinese company is on hold for the immediate future. Will see how that plays out. I know the folks in Marshall don't want the plant to be built there, lots of push back on it.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

That is 100% dependent on the current and future administrations. Get rid of the 'green new deal' idiots and get on with petro chemicals. The BOTTOM line is, the grid in it's present form cannot support wholesale EV charging as Newsom in California found out earlier this year.

You cannot have it if the infrastructure won't support it. I have 3 phase here at the farm as well but I don't have anything to charge up except my cordless tools.

Like I said, I'd buy a hybrid (if the cost of one was in line, which it's not), but for hauling, they aren't practical...yet. Haul you butt around, maybe. Hauling hay or crops to the elevator, not gonna happen.

Go back to your EV thread, this is about the UAW strike which really has zip to do with EV's, anyway.

next week will be interesting with Stellantis and GM I suspect. Waiting for Fain to call a walkout at GM's 'Propulsion Systems' plant in Toledo, aka: Powertrain. That plant is key to GM's supply of parts, especially transmissions. Same applies to Stellantis' Toledo Machining in Perrysburg, Ohio. A walkout at those 2 facilities will almost cripple both GM and Stellantis almost immediately.

Next week will be interesting.

Finally, the Marshall, Michigan joint venture between Fords and the Chinese company is on hold for the immediate future. Will see how that plays out. I know the folks in Marshall don't want the plant to be built there, lots of push back on it.

I never thought about the strike empowering the move to EVs and from ICE as ICE manufacturing becomes less efficient because of ICE parts costing more due to ever declining productivity and parts volume.

Do you agree every EV sale in North America is another nail in ICEs coffin?