Will UAW Strike?

[tacticalturnip]

Oh hey, it's almost like **** rolls downhill.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

You didn't read the article at all did you?

If you had, you would have read that the CEO's of Ford, GM, Toyota and Mercedes AND EVEN YOUR VAULTED TESLA (you have heard of those guys, right? The ones that actually RUN car manufacturing companies?), THEY are the ones saying it. In calls to their stockholders. You know, the folks they are beholden to in order to keep their jobs.

Jeeze man, how tight can you cling to your dream?

Why do think Tesla is ramping up EV production world wide due to climbing sales using your current logic?

 

[QRTRHRS]

I was represented for 20 years by IBEW manufacturing. Semi conductor, state of the art, from crystal growth to packaging. Back around 1998 I think it was, the company wanted to go to 12 hour shifts. (Many all ready worked that since OT was almost always there) The union poo pooed it. I remember hearing one slug mutter as he walked out of the meeting; "they won't ever close this plant".

2003, the plant all but closed. From peak numbers of 6500 at that campus plus additional numbers pushing the total to around 10,000 when you include two other locations close by, the number of employees went down to around 800. As the business was sold off, the numbers continued to drop. I do not follow up anymore so I do not know if there is anything left at all.

The UAW settlement with Ford is just another nail in the coffin.

 

[5030]

The UAW settlement with Ford is just another nail in the coffin.

Certainly is... All one has to do is reference YRC and the Teamsters for guidance. When ANY union starts to dictate what ANY company-corporation can do to make a profit for it's stake holders, the time to dissolution is approaching. Me, I have no issue with any of it actually. Vehicle prices would immediately come down for one. Like I stated before and more than once, I'm somewhat privy to Ford's philosophy on unions but I cannot post that on here as it would negatively impact my BIL's position at Fords corporate.

I own my own business and of course I'm non union (only 2 part time employees but if I ever got bigger and a union wanted to organize my shop, I'd close up in a heartbeat.

 

[lilranch2001]

You didn't read the article at all did you?

If you had, you would have read that the CEO's of Ford, GM, Toyota and Mercedes AND EVEN YOUR VAULTED TESLA (you have heard of those guys, right? The ones that actually RUN car manufacturing companies?), THEY are the ones saying it. In calls to their stockholders. You know, the folks they are beholden to in order to keep their jobs.

Jeeze man, how tight can you cling to your dream?

That is exactly what I thought as I read his attachment….. or if he read any of it he did not read into the bulk of the material, because as I read the article I got a totally different take on it than he was promoting!

 

[ultrarunner]

I was represented for 20 years by IBEW manufacturing. Semi conductor, state of the art, from crystal growth to packaging. Back around 1998 I think it was, the company wanted to go to 12 hour shifts. (Many all ready worked that since OT was almost always there) The union poo pooed it. I remember hearing one slug mutter as he walked out of the meeting; "they won't ever close this plant".

2003, the plant all but closed. From peak numbers of 6500 at that campus plus additional numbers pushing the total to around 10,000 when you include two other locations close by, the number of employees went down to around 800. As the business was sold off, the numbers continued to drop. I do not follow up anymore so I do not know if there is anything left at all.

The UAW settlement with Ford is just another nail in the coffin.

Funny NEVER and EVER can be measured in months and years.

 

[tradosaurus]

Apparently you didn't read your own article.

The costs of the strike are not simply going to increase the cost of ICE vehicles. That overhead will be spread across the entire business.

More importantly, the article makes it clear EV sales are tanking. Sure, they quote a guy who says they are growing, just not as much as we expected. Read between the lines. That is sales speak for 'holy crap, Martha, the water's rising and we don't have a bucket'.

As mentioned earlier, most people who want an EV have already got one. The infrastructure cannot handle the death of ICE in the next 30 years. We simply have too little reliable electric production and transmission for that.

I actually feel sorry for y'all who bought an EV expecting to drive it for 10+ years. Those who want EV in the future will not want to buy your 'old tech' anymore than people wanted to buy a 286 PC after the 386 came out. You'll end up having to pay for hazardous waste disposal and pay full freight for whatever replaces EV. Even if EVs are still being sold, the tech will move fast enough that current models will be worthless in trade. You might be able to find some guy to retrofit your EV with new tech, but it will not be cheap.

 

[tradosaurus]

You should contain jerking off to the privacy of your own home, we don't want to watch this.

Why do you hate EV's so much?
And why are you fascinated with men "jerking off"?

 

[NoTrespassing]

Probably go up briefly today, and then decline back down by the close on Friday……

I’m waiting for a reentry point myself, but I don’t think this is really it unless you’re day trading.

Here's your entry point, down 10%, try to catch the falling knife

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Why do think Tesla is ramping up EV production world wide due to climbing sales using your current logic?

Wut?

It's not "my logic".

It's the CEO's admitting in calls to shareholders that sales are way down, dealers are not able to sell what's already on their sales floors, so they're not accepting additional inventory from the manufacturers.

Tesla even states that sales are down in the US. So your previous post where you claimed that "EV sales are increasing today in the United States" is simply not true.

It's NOT me saying it. It's the CEO's of the previously listed companies stating it to their own shareholders.

I am QUITE sure that their "research" is much deeper, and more detailed than yours. They pay people tons of money to do such "research". You really think you know more about the US market and what it's doing than those CEO's?

Please, by all means, do tell.

And perhaps offer to sell your "research" to Ford, GM, Toyota, Mercedes and yes, even Tesla. I bet you can make millions.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

And again, THIS is the article you didn't bother to read:

Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

EDITED TO ADD: I copied and pasted the body of this article to this post, since the original article is behind a "paywall" that some may not want to turn off their ad blocking for--




With signs of growing inventory and slowing sales, auto industry executives admitted this week that their ambitious electric vehicle plans are in jeopardy, at least in the near term.

Several C-Suite leaders at some of the biggest carmakers voiced fresh unease about the electric car market's growth as concerns over the viability of these vehicles put their multi-billion-dollar electrification strategies at risk.

Among those hand-wringing is GM's Mary Barra, historically one of the automotive industry's most bullish CEOs on the future of electric vehicles. GM has been an early-mover in the electric car market, selling the Chevrolet Bolt for seven years and making bold claims about a fully electric future for the company long before its competitors got on board.

But this week on GM's third-quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more sober tone. The company announced with its quarterly results that it's abandoning its targets to build 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first six months of 2024. GM doesn't know when it will hit those targets.

"As we get further into the transformation to EV, it's a bit bumpy," she said.

While GM's about-face was somewhat of a surprise to investors, the Detroit car company is not alone in this new view of the EV future. Even Tesla's Elon Musk warned on a recent earnings call that economic concerns would lead to waning vehicle demand, even for the long-time EV market leader.

Meanwhile, Mercedes-Benz — which is having to discount its EVs by several thousand dollars just to get them in customers' hands — isn't mincing words about the state of the EV market.

"This is a pretty brutal space," CFO Harald Wilhelm said on an analyst call. "I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody."

EVs are getting harder to sell​

But Mercedes isn't the only one; almost all current EV product is going for under sticker price these days, and on top of that, some EVs are seeing manufacturer's incentives of nearly 10%.

That's as inventory builds up at dealerships, much to the chagrin of dealers. While car buyers are in luck if they're looking for a deal on a plug-in vehicle, executives are finding even significant markdowns and discounts aren't enough. These cars are taking dealers longer to sell compared with their gas counterparts as the next wave of buyers focus on cost, infrastructure challenges, and lifestyle barriers to adopting.

Just a few months after dealers started coming forward to warn of slowing EV demand, manufacturers appear to be catching up to that reality. Ford was the first to fold, after dealers started turning away Mach-E allocations. In July, the company extended its self-imposed deadline to hit annual electric vehicle production of 600,000 by a year, and abandoned a 2026 target to build 2 million EVs.

In scrapping plans with GM to co-develop sub-$30,000 EVs, Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe said the shifting EV environment was difficult to gauge.

"After studying this for a year, we decided that this would be difficult as a business, so at the moment we are ending development of an affordable EV," Mibe said in an interview with Bloomberg this week.

For some, this pullback is no surprise.

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show, the Wall Street Journal reported. Toyoda has long been skeptical of his peers' pure-electric blueprints.

 

[5030]

What fried my bacon about the YT video and Fain's obvious illegal and not conducive salary from Stellantis as Treasurer of their 'learning center' really hit home with me about graft and corruption in the UAW. Still the same crap, just a different face. I have a very low opinion of Fain now, not that I ever had a high opinion of him anyway.

I know nothing about him but I wonder how he's educated. he don't speak well from what I can ascertain.

 

[5030]

And again, THIS is the article you didn't bother to read:

Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

Just another pay-wall site and no, I'm not turning off my ad blocker either so I'll take your word on it. I was just up at Ford's Rouge assembly (Miller Road) yesterday and while the holding lot full of Lightning pickup trucks and e-Stangs has dopped a bit, there is still a huge glut of them sitting there.

People don't want them and really cannot afford them. Gonna be hard to wean the public in general off ICE engine vehicles, if not impossible. Personally speaking, I feel the millions in investment in EV's is a bad deal all around. One, the grid cannot support them, charging on the road is still a PITA and takes too long and 3, too expensive for a niche, toy vehicle.

Heck, I average 40 mpg and I'm good with that. Besides, being retired, I don't drive all that much anyway and I much prefer being hauled around in my wife's Suburban LTZ. Sure, it gets pretty poor fuel mileage but I don't gas it, she does.

 

[Snobdds]

Has the UAW ratified the proposal Ford submitted?

 

[lilranch2001]

No

 

[ultrarunner]

In times of rising costs and much higher interest rates the tendency is to cutback... then add all that is going on in the world and some really hunker down and a new vehicle is no longer on the list.

What I'm still seeing is folks spending money on home repairs and improvements...

The threat of strikes just ups the ante when times are uncertain.

Betting the company is always a risky move and consequences can be dire if wrong... I would say similar to calling a strike.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

And again, THIS is the article you didn't bother to read:

Auto execs are coming clean: EVs aren't working

EDITED TO ADD: I copied and pasted the body of this article to this post, since the original article is behind a "paywall" that some may not want to turn off their ad blocking for--




With signs of growing inventory and slowing sales, auto industry executives admitted this week that their ambitious electric vehicle plans are in jeopardy, at least in the near term.

Several C-Suite leaders at some of the biggest carmakers voiced fresh unease about the electric car market's growth as concerns over the viability of these vehicles put their multi-billion-dollar electrification strategies at risk.

Among those hand-wringing is GM's Mary Barra, historically one of the automotive industry's most bullish CEOs on the future of electric vehicles. GM has been an early-mover in the electric car market, selling the Chevrolet Bolt for seven years and making bold claims about a fully electric future for the company long before its competitors got on board.

But this week on GM's third-quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more sober tone. The company announced with its quarterly results that it's abandoning its targets to build 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first six months of 2024. GM doesn't know when it will hit those targets.

"As we get further into the transformation to EV, it's a bit bumpy," she said.

While GM's about-face was somewhat of a surprise to investors, the Detroit car company is not alone in this new view of the EV future. Even Tesla's Elon Musk warned on a recent earnings call that economic concerns would lead to waning vehicle demand, even for the long-time EV market leader.

Meanwhile, Mercedes-Benz — which is having to discount its EVs by several thousand dollars just to get them in customers' hands — isn't mincing words about the state of the EV market.

"This is a pretty brutal space," CFO Harald Wilhelm said on an analyst call. "I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody."

EVs are getting harder to sell​

But Mercedes isn't the only one; almost all current EV product is going for under sticker price these days, and on top of that, some EVs are seeing manufacturer's incentives of nearly 10%.

That's as inventory builds up at dealerships, much to the chagrin of dealers. While car buyers are in luck if they're looking for a deal on a plug-in vehicle, executives are finding even significant markdowns and discounts aren't enough. These cars are taking dealers longer to sell compared with their gas counterparts as the next wave of buyers focus on cost, infrastructure challenges, and lifestyle barriers to adopting.

Just a few months after dealers started coming forward to warn of slowing EV demand, manufacturers appear to be catching up to that reality. Ford was the first to fold, after dealers started turning away Mach-E allocations. In July, the company extended its self-imposed deadline to hit annual electric vehicle production of 600,000 by a year, and abandoned a 2026 target to build 2 million EVs.

In scrapping plans with GM to co-develop sub-$30,000 EVs, Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe said the shifting EV environment was difficult to gauge.

"After studying this for a year, we decided that this would be difficult as a business, so at the moment we are ending development of an affordable EV," Mibe said in an interview with Bloomberg this week.

For some, this pullback is no surprise.

"People are finally seeing reality," Toyota Motor Chairman Akio Toyoda said at the Japan Mobility Show, the Wall Street Journal reported. Toyoda has long been skeptical of his peers' pure-electric blueprints.

EV sales are on the rise as in the numbers of EVs tagged year each is climbing. So the transition from ICE to EVs continues as it will for decades to come. The rate of EV adoption like many large ticket items have have slowed. This is true for Tesla the most profitable EV source in the world but their sales will be up about 500,000 cars over 2022 and the ICE slow death spiral will speed up post strike. Unless you or I die in the next 25 we will be able to buy all of the ICE cars that we want. Unfortunately they will be $5,000 or more expensive than a comparable EV.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Why would gear shifting a manual transmission truck make a driver any worse than one driving an automatic?

9 out of 10 truck drivers are assigned to a company truck and have no choice.
An automatic transmission driver may be much better off safety wise for himself and the general public than a manual driver because he has one less thing to distract him from driving.

Manual transmissions are going the way of the dial-up telephone.

Way back when I wore one of my other hats, I ran the snow belt in NY, Toronto and Ottawa. I would much rather have a manual so I can feel the ice. But then I also prefer a set of pups over a 53'.

 

[5030]

EV sales are on the rise as in the numbers of EVs tagged year each is climbing. So the transition from ICE to EVs continues as it will for decades to come. The rate of EV adoption like many large ticket items have have slowed. This is true for Tesla the most profitable EV source in the world but their sales will be up about 500,000 cars over 2022 and the ICE slow death spiral will speed up post strike. Unless you or I die in the next 25 we will be able to buy all of the ICE cars that we want. Unfortunately they will be $5,000 or more expensive than a comparable EV.

BS....

 

[Gale Hawkins]

BS....

Maybe you can get with your brother-in-law in the industry and have him step you through how they determine what price to sell vehicles for and why ICE is being phased out due to performance issues. It is not that ICE is evil. It's just no longer makes sense for many of the people's trips. I am not in favor of having a dictator in Russia or the middle east determine the price of my fuel. I do have 220 volts to my house tapped off of a new three phase line so there is no trucks involved to haul liquid fuels. National security and future of the kids and future generations that concern me. I am opposed to the do nothing mindset and just turn the automotive supply over to China.. I don't buy into global warming is an issue that is going to be addressed by EVs and no one in the right mind does. Again EVs just make dollar sense to many of us that are planning to live several decades into the future.