Will UAW Strike?

[Joel/ak]

Main problem with EV's is that the system can't support and the .gov is trying to force it. A slow roll out would have been smarter since most, myself included, cannot afford to buy a decent EV truck ( gotta have a truck) that's sketchy at best.

I'll stick with my ICE truck.

 

[Hay Dude]

Spreading any cost increase over the declining number of ICE vehicle sales is going to change the price of ICE vehicles.

The ever increasing EV sales volume is going to continue to reduce the cost of EVs as EV's numbers go up and ICE numbers go down.

My concern is from what I'm hearing unions are anti-EV and since everything is moving in that direction in a general sense I don't understand their end-game with EV prices declining versus ICE cost increasing. I think the financial frugal-minded individual will have an easy decision on which to buy if EVs work for their application.

If EV’s are so freaking awesome, why is Ford losing billions on EV’s?

 

[5030]

Main problem with EV's is that the system can't support and the .gov is trying to force it. A slow roll out would have been smarter since most, myself included, cannot afford to buy a decent EV truck ( gotta have a truck) that's sketchy at best.

I'll stick with my ICE truck.

I was up at Fords Rouge assembly a few weeks ago and the Lightening electric pickup trucks were stacked like cordwood in the holding lots... No one wants them and no one can pay the freight either. That and E-Mustangs that don't even look like a pony car. Strike or no strike, Fords is gonna have to have a fire sale to unload them.

Having said that, if I was in the market (which I'm not)for a new car, I'd consider a Hybrid but not a plug in only. Has to have an ICE plus battery power.

It appears to me that they are trying to cater to the 'greenies' and IMO, that is a big mistake in my view at least.

Watched the TFL test in the Ford electric pickup pulling the trailer. 80 miles and it was out of poop.

My other issue is replacing the battery in a plug in. I read that batteries can cost upwards of 25 grand. That ain't in my wheelhouse.

 

[Torvy]

Sorry 5050 Not Moss...

My other issue is replacing the battery in a plug in. I read that batteries can cost upwards of 25 grand. That ain't in my wheelhouse.

Plug-in Hybrid is the best current option. Charging times are much less. Batteries last longer. Still has 10 gal or more tank of gas and gets 55+ mpg on that. Range is better than a similar sized ICE. We had a regular Prius and a Prime (Plug-In). If we get a new daily driver down the road I'll push for the Rav4 Prime.

 

[Joel/ak]

I wouldn't mind a hybrid car if I was in the market. I only drive 80 miles a day for work so that would come in handy. My fusion gets 28mpg, for now that's good.

Logistics knock out EV for me. Old house and probably cost to much for a charger hook up. My employer doesn't have hook ups. Plus in 5 minutes I can power up my standard vehicles and be on down the road.

No brainer for me

 

[5030]

I get 40 out of my Focus and I really don't go anywhere, anyway. Retired.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

If EV’s are so freaking awesome, why is Ford losing billions on EV’s?

Why do you think Ford is a special snowflake?

If Tesla lost billions in their first 17 years of making EVs why do you expect the diluted Ford gene pool 100 years later can still do what Henry Ford did 100 years ago?

Elon Musk is working from Henry Ford's original Play Book. Today Ford is not committed to Henry Ford's playbook.

In the middle of the 8th ending Ford has decided to follow the leadership of Elon Musk's playbook because they realize he is the reincarnated Henry Ford.

Ford was too deep in debt to participate in the EV Evolution. Now they are billions deeper in debt due KY/TN EV endeavors with low odds of benefiting because they have your EV mind set from the evidence that I can see.

Windows of opportunities open then close. Today even Elon Musk couldn't save Ford or GM I expect. I am not sure he is going to be able to save even X.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Plug-in Hybrid is the best current option. Charging times are much less. Batteries last longer. Still has 10 gal or more tank of gas and gets 55+ mpg on that. Range is better than a similar sized ICE. We had a regular Prius and a Prime (Plug-In). If we get a new daily driver down the road I'll push for the Rav4 Prime.

I was going for a RAV4 Prime until I realized the 2023 Tesla Model Y dual motor long range was thousands less and had a better safety record and the FSD option. Our 2016 Nissan Leaf SL with 150 range let me understand a 300 mile range Tesla with their Supercharger network solved my range anxiety. Plus my Tesla arrived 6 days after I ordered it and Toyota dealership said 6+ months.

Last summer for a test bed I bought a 2015 Prius C with 103K miles company car that per Carfax has been in 5 accidents around the Nashville Tennessee area with a crack windshield to start with the minor issues. The oil change history looked good. The hybrid drive train after a hard 10K miles still performs like new with NO oil burning. With a charged HV battery in EV mode I can go upto 1 mile before the engine automatically starts.

It should be in Pigeon Forge by now since the son and daughter in law took it on their anniversary weekend trip. They hope to have a new RAV4 Hybrid by next Spring.

With a RAV4 Prime in EV mode some have gone a year without buying gas but all here know what is a huge no no.

That was my first Toyota and I can give their hybrid design a thumbs up. I think you will really enjoy your RAV4 Prime when you get it.

 

[Torvy]

Like I said, we already had the Prius Prime. 650+ range. 300 doesn't cut it out here. Rav4 has more EV only than Prius. It doesn't have the ability to replace the Tundra. It would be instead of an Outback.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I have a cousin with a Prius Prime and she just loves it.

At 14,000 mi. I haven't required charging away from home. Tesla seems to have charger about ever 150 mi. So range is not a problem typically for a Tesla.Plus I have bought the CCS1 adapter so I can charge at any of those stations and I carry the Tesla adapter to use the old 220 volt 120 volt connector. J1772.

You sound smart to stay away from a full EV. If I lived in the outback, the RAV4 Prime would be my choice.

 

[Hay Dude]

Why do you think Ford is a special snowflake?

If Tesla lost billions in their first 17 years of making EVs why do you expect the diluted Ford gene pool 100 years later can still do what Henry Ford did 100 years ago?

Elon Musk is working from Henry Ford's original Play Book. Today Ford is not committed to Henry Ford's playbook.

In the middle of the 8th ending Ford has decided to follow the leadership of Elon Musk's playbook because they realize he is the reincarnated Henry Ford.

Ford was too deep in debt to participate in the EV Evolution. Now they are billions deeper in debt due KY/TN EV endeavors with low odds of benefiting because they have your EV mind set from the evidence that I can see.

Windows of opportunities open then close. Today even Elon Musk couldn't save Ford or GM I expect. I am not sure he is going to be able to save even X.

Um no, he’s not. Henry Ford didn’t work billion dollar deals to have much of his vehicle’s integral parts made in CHINA.
Don’t let yourself down worshipping billionaires profiting off the backs of slave labor in Africa and China.
EV’s are the end of the American auto industry. Everyone knows it, but nobody wants to admit it.

Let’s not forget the status of the “big 3”.

1. GM has been baled out to the tune of 25 billion about 15 years ago. They no longer produce large trucks, either.
2. Ford is losing billions on EV’s and has off shored vast amounts of production to Mexico. They are also out of the large truck market.
3. Chrysler is now foreign owned.

Heck I’ll even throw in International Harvester. They are now foreign owned.

Want more?

I see a patter of failure here that is unsustainable. Piling forced EV’s and irrational, overbearing regulations onto them will only accelerate that failure process.

 

[Eaglesfate]

Still not effecting us as a tier two to GM, Ford, and Stellantis.

 

[Hay Dude]

We need consumers, but we don't want or need more people..... I see a bit of a problem here......

At the rate people are coming into this country?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Are state services going to be stuck with funding strike pay costs is a horse of a different color?

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/23/uaw-strike-unemployment-benefits-paid

 

[Joel/ak]

States won't pay strike wages. Fain struck the parts and distributors so plants can't operate. Forcing plants to close. Then it's not strike wages and benefits, it's unemployment. Then the automakers are on the hook for paying for it along with states.

 

[5030]

If EV’s are so freaking awesome, why is Ford losing billions on EV’s?

Fords is and will keep on loosing money due mostly to legacy costs which the non union transplants from offshore don't have to deal with at all. Not just loosing on EV's, loosing on everything with wheels and so is GM. Stellantis, not so much because they keep reorganizing as 'other companies' and at the same time, they carefully shed their built in legacy costs discreetly.

 

[tradosaurus]

Like I said, we already had the Prius Prime. 650+ range. 300 doesn't cut it out here. Rav4 has more EV only than Prius. It doesn't have the ability to replace the Tundra. It would be instead of an Outback.

Supposedly Toyota is coming out with a hybrid that will go 100 miles on a charge. Probably 2-3 yrs out.

I have two EV's; one GM Bolt I used for local driving and now a Tesla Y which I can use for longer trips given the supercharging network.
I also live in East Texas.

 

[Joel/ak]

I stand corrected, having breakfast with my dad, retired UAW. He said that since they voted for the strike, it's a voluntary layoff and do not get unemployment. Atleast here in MI

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I stand corrected, having breakfast with my dad, retired UAW. He said that since they voted for the strike, it's a voluntary layoff and do not get unemployment. Atleast here in MI

That makes more financial sense. Thanks

 

[5030]

States won't pay strike wages. Fain struck the parts and distributors so plants can't operate. Forcing plants to close. Then it's not strike wages and benefits, it's unemployment. Then the automakers are on the hook for paying for it along with states.

100% correct, but then the government is broke so it must be 'funny money' right? Keep in mind that at least 75% of the T2-T3 suppliers are not unionized either so their employees are 100% at will employees.

Very quiet up here in Michigan, no one is publicly talking about anything, not even the local papers contain anything which I find interesting. It is like it's a bad dream and everyone wakes up and it's all good again. Got news for everyone, it ain't.

I believe Fain was counting on the Canadian Auto workers to strike as well and so far that has not happened so Fain lost that pillar of solidarity. Looks to me like they will accept the new contract that Fords has bargained for and I believe that is why he stated that Fords was negotiating in 'good faith' and has went after GM and Stellantis instead.

Don't matter much as the JIT supply chain is now broken and the flow of parts and sub assemblies from T2 and T3 suppliers will end and probably soon so the workers that are still on the job will get laid off anyway, especially if the strike continues for a protracted amount of time.

Everyone looses and I mean everyone except the offshore but located here automakers. I'm sure they are all smiling presently.