What do you think??

   / What do you think?? #1  

jcmseven

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2004
Messages
2,314
Location
western NC
Tractor
JD 2320; 4520
Fellow Posters:

I have posted before on this topic in brief, but as time has worn on I am feeling a bit more serious about my question to see if it could be a reality. As many of you know, I own a JD 850D XUV Gator. I bought this machine about one year ago after much debate and I would say I am most pleased with its reliability and service. I have added some mods including ITP 27" Mudlites on polished wheels, a winch, power steering kit, 2" lift kit, among other things. I chose the Gator over the Polaris Ranger at the time because I felt John Deere offered a better overall package for my needs and due to my strong dealer network and support. Currently, I have about 150 hours use on the Gator and aside from some cool weather starting issues it has been a solid workhorse. The one thing I do not like about my Gator is its lack of power in mid range and high RPM areas. As expected with a diesel the Yanmar diesel has a great deal of low range torque and moves heavy loads well. Where I notice it to struggle is pulling the long hills in my neighborhood, especially with trailer in tow. It will really struggle to maintain any real speed in these cases--and I do this quite a lot. I understand the larger tires put more strain on the engine, but I need the aggressive tread pattern for some of the locations I go. I understand one can change the sheave and perhaps achieve more mid range at the expense of some top end, another good thought that I find less appealing.

My goal is to have a machine which can pull long, steep grades with adequate power (in low or high range) to keep loads moving without bogging to a crawl. I do not want to have a higher top speed, but would also prefer not to loose top end to achieve this. With a weight of 1760 pounds full of fuel, I have come to the conclusion that my machine is underpowered for the terrain I have and its sprung weight. I am considering swapping out for a higher HP Yanmar engine, perhaps a TNV88 (36 hp) or equivalent. Does anyone have experience or know of a good resource for information regarding this?? I would, of course, want to evaluate whether this is truly a cost-effective upgrade and if it is POSSIBLE to do this. My understanding is that the drive"train" and axles, etc. are rated for up to 40 hp so I would not want to consider going beyond that number. I do realize that Polaris has a 40 hp XP 700 stock which is an option, but I have been happy with my current machine otherwise and like the diesel engine, leading me to pose this question to the group. Thanks in advance for the advice.

John M
 
   / What do you think?? #2  
well after seeing my buddy ride his 700xp and working it too i would go with a rtv1100 i think it would better suit your needs as a worker and power house . sure my buddy latches on to a trailer with his xp and does 40 mph down the road but i'll be honest the thing is falling apart on him and i mean it . i really hate to say it but it is if you just wanted to use it for hunting hand wanted to carry a deer out the woods or some deer feed into the woods it would be fine but for a everyday worker don't waist your money this thing is falling apart. if you want sheer brute pulling power get you a rtv 1000 with that set throttle thing that raises the rpms put a lift kit on it and pop you some 27"mudlite xl's or 589's and there ain't nuthin that's gonna stop you. now this is just my opinion of what i have seen .
 
   / What do you think?? #3  
Can you modify the engine to get more power, maybe injection pump tuning, or adding a very small turbo. Many guys with polaris rzr`s add turbo`s to their machines {although they are gasoline powered}. I would have to beleive that it would be less expensive than repowering it with a bigger engine. I never tried it, but in your situation, it may be worth looking into a little bit.
 
   / What do you think?? #4  
IIRC these are the same engines in the 3x20 tractors. They are cabable of more than what they are set up at. I think the real issue here is tires. I think 26's would have been a better choice and you most likely would not be in this situation. If you could find a set of 26's to try, you might find the power is good, and the traction is almost the same.

Rather than a motor swap, I would look at tires and injection pressures.:D
 
   / What do you think?? #5  
well after seeing my buddy ride his 700xp and working it too i would go with a rtv1100 i think it would better suit your needs as a worker and power house . sure my buddy latches on to a trailer with his xp and does 40 mph down the road but i'll be honest the thing is falling apart on him and i mean it . i really hate to say it but it is if you just wanted to use it for hunting hand wanted to carry a deer out the woods or some deer feed into the woods it would be fine but for a everyday worker don't waist your money this thing is falling apart. if you want sheer brute pulling power get you a rtv 1000 with that set throttle thing that raises the rpms put a lift kit on it and pop you some 27"mudlite xl's or 589's and there ain't nuthin that's gonna stop you. now this is just my opinion of what i have seen .

RTVs have their issues. All machines have issues. I had a Deere - liked it. I went Ranger Crew and love it. Dealer sucks, but I can work on it. I have 35 hours on it - all good so far.

D.
 
   / What do you think??
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I have thought about going back with a more stock wheel and tire combo for the purpose of increased power up hills, etc. I did not particularly want the big wheel combination but my dealer enjoys modifying some of the Gators he sells, and did so for me. It looks great but I am thinking the larger tires do have some negative effect on the machine's hill performance. I do also wonder how much driveline strain I am putting on the machine, but so far so good. I cannot help but think there is some modification that can be done to the engine to achieve 4-5 more HP and combined with a smaller wheelset, it might do the trick. Thanks for the advice.

John M
 
   / What do you think?? #7  
there has to be some engine mod i mean these things do have a twin cylinder 620cc engine they really ain't at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to engines they got less than 40 cc's than a rhino 660 and you can mod the heck out of that engine . what we need is a mechanic. what about boring out the engine? did you ever try talking to a kawasaki mechanic at a dealership instead of a john deere dealership mechanic.

i know when my engine does finnaly go on my hpx i'm gonna have fun with this thing .i'm gonna find out what it's capable of and what i can fit into this frame. there is a 29hp kawasaki engine out there with the same weight and measurments as this engine.
 
   / What do you think??
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I agree Tommy. Mine, though, has the diesel Yanmar engine. It is--I believe--854 cc in displacement. I have noted that the higher HP Yanmar's used in the front cut mowers, etc., are only 1,000-1,300 cc's, so it seems logical that someone could bore out this Yanmar to make about 10 extra HP. Of course, this might be cost-prohibitive. I would be willing to consider a gasoline one again if it was an easier proposition with the gas engine than with diesel, but I like my current machine and would really be interested in what could be done to it and for how much $$$$. As I have noted, it is not weak by any stretch, but with a 1500 pound trailer in tow up some paved and or graveled roads which approach 20-25% gradient I need more ponies to keep the speed up. And I do this almost daily. Currently, it is a smoke billowing 5 mph effort, even in low range.

John M
 
   / What do you think?? #9  
Why not buy agressive tires in the stock size? Seems like the cheapest route. JC
 
   / What do you think?? #10  
we have some inclines in the woods around here but when i pull my trailer i use high gear on the road and in the woods i drop it in low and she never grunts like you talk about. maybe something is wrong with yours or something??smoke is a sign of a dirty filter too. my gas hpx will spin the tires before it bogs down with the trailer and it weighs atleast 1200lbs dry. it's a 16' double axle trailer. to me that deisel hpx should pull it with ease. i have 27"589's on mine too.
 
   / What do you think?? #11  
I agree Tommy. Mine, though, has the diesel Yanmar engine. It is--I believe--854 cc in displacement. I have noted that the higher HP Yanmar's used in the front cut mowers, etc., are only 1,000-1,300 cc's, so it seems logical that someone could bore out this Yanmar to make about 10 extra HP. Of course, this might be cost-prohibitive. I would be willing to consider a gasoline one again if it was an easier proposition with the gas engine than with diesel, but I like my current machine and would really be interested in what could be done to it and for how much $$$$. As I have noted, it is not weak by any stretch, but with a 1500 pound trailer in tow up some paved and or graveled roads which approach 20-25% gradient I need more ponies to keep the speed up. And I do this almost daily. Currently, it is a smoke billowing 5 mph effort, even in low range.

John M


My XUV smokes a little also, even without a load. Its normal. being that you are already smoking bad, I don't know if turning up the pump would help. It would be nice to know how much smoke. Is it black, a light haze?

A turbo might be the answer.
 
   / What do you think??
  • Thread Starter
#12  
The smoke is sooty black in nature. The Gator burns no oil based on following this closely. I have had it serviced and checked out by my dealer because my perception is the power is not as great as it once was. Nothing was found in either the engine or drivetrain to suggest a problem. My dealer compared it climbing a hill behind his dealership and actually felt it climbed better than his stock new ones, so no revelation there. My suspicion is that the large tires hurt this machine due to its unfavorable power/weight ratio. I had a gasoline XUV with the same sized tires prior to my diesel one and it could barely climb some of the hills I have in low range at WALKING speed, so my current machine is an improvement there. I am currently in the market for a stock sized wheelset and tires for my machine. I would say that I am not that enthused about the larger wheel/tire combination anyway, but my dealer was pushing it a bit and I thought it looked neat. They do offer better traction, but I personally would rather have a bit more engine performance and use chains when needed. Ideally, though I would like to have a machine with enough power to pull up these steep paved or gravel inclines at 12-15 mph without bogging to 5-8 mph as it currently does and keep my current tire size, but this might not be possible. I guess we cannot have everything we want.

John M
 
   / What do you think?? #13  
Good, the black smoke if from the engine not burning all the fuel its been given. You could check the spark arestor to see if its plugged...
 
   / What do you think?? #14  
after reading a thread on another forum it reminded me of a power robing little thing that will cause smoke on both a deisel and gas engine and it's called a spark arrestor. . when was the last time you took it out and cleaned it? and if possible can you run without it meaning do you go to any areas that requir you to have it in? if not i would take it out and keep it out because it will clog up really quick and will starve the engine of alot of power. stupid me i didn't read that someone posted about the arestor right before my post . so never mind my post.lol
 

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