Weight of water

[1930]

Can anyone tell me how much the water might weigh, no bourbon and whiskey involved :dance1:

 

[3Ts]

Area of a 2.067" ID pipe = (Pii / 4) x 2.067squared
(3.14 / 4) x 4.27 =
0.785 x 4.27 = 3.354 square inches


3.64 gallons x 8.34 pounds = 30.3576 pounds

Someone double check me, please. I've had some Captain Morgan and Dr. Pepper. :drink:

I ran the number you have on my calculator and came up slightly different, so I rechecked by long multiplication by hand and confirmed what my calculator said - 3.35195 square inches. Then I re-did the calculations using pi to 10 digits and got 3.345871574 but since we started with 3 decimal places for pipe diameter, the result should be 3 also, so 3.346 square inches. I went thru and checked the rest and they're all close enough to what I get, it doesn't matter. I end up with a little over 30 pounds as well.

Unless he's talking about two different sizes of pump. Then what he says makes sense.

Or if he's trying to lift the entire water column as a sealed unit.

As for the check valve - there is a little more to it than just the PSI it has to withstand. With a 1 sq inch area at 15 psi the valve only has to resist 15 pounds of pressure. However, with a 2 sq inch at 15 psi the valve only has to resist 15 pounds of pressure just as in the 1 sq inch one, but the rubber diaphram is 2 sq inches so is subjected to 30 pounds - we have to consider "strength of materials" in situations like this.

You will also find smaller diameter pipes rated for higher pressures than larger pipes. A 1" pipe has a circumfrence of 3.14", a 4" pipe is 12.56". So while the pressure is the same, the 4" pipe has to resist 4x the forces because of it's larger surface area.

 

[chim]

If you have a vertical pipe that's 100' tall and filled with water, the pressure at the bottom is about 43.3 PSI. To make water overflow out of the top, you can apply 44PSI at the bottom.

I see what the OP is saying and it doesn't quite relate to the above. He is lifting the volume of water in the space between the large and small pipes on the upstroke. With more the space between the two pipes, he's lifting more water. His physical effort is 43.3 pounds times the area of the water space.

Think of it this way. There are two vertical cylindrical tanks, both 10 feet tall. One is 6" in diameter and the other is 24" in diameter. Both have around 4.3 PSI at the bottom with 10' of head. Pushing water into a pipe fitting at the bottom of either tank at a pressure of more than the 4.3 PSI will make either one overflow.

Now, lift each one off the ground.

 

[s219]

Area of a 2.067" ID pipe = (Pii / 4) x 2.067squared
(3.14 / 4) x 4.27 =
0.785 x 4.27 = 3.354 square inches

Area of a 1.315 OD pipe = (Pii / 4) x 1.315squared
(3.14 / 4) x 1.73 =
0.785 x 1.73 = 1.357 square inches

Volume of 2.067 ID x 100' pipe = 2.067 x 100'
2.067 x 1200" = 2480 cubic inches

Volume of 1.357 OD x 100 pipe = 1.357 x 100'
1.357 x 1200" = 1638.4 cubic inches

Subtract 1638.4 cubic inches from 2480 cubic inches = 841.6 cubic inches.

1 gallon displaces 231 cubic inches

841.6 / 231 = 3.64 gallons

1 gallon weighs 8.34 pounds

3.64 gallons x 8.34 pounds = 30.3576 pounds

Someone double check me, please. I've had some Captain Morgan and Dr. Pepper. :drink:

You calculated volume of the outer pipe wrong, you should have used the area you calculated in the first step, not the diameter.

 

[1930]

I ran the number you have on my calculator and came up slightly different, so I rechecked by long multiplication by hand and confirmed what my calculator said - 3.35195 square inches. Then I re-did the calculations using pi to 10 digits and got 3.345871574 but since we started with 3 decimal places for pipe diameter, the result should be 3 also, so 3.346 square inches. I went thru and checked the rest and they're all close enough to what I get, it doesn't matter. I end up with a little over 30 pounds as well.



Or if he's trying to lift the entire water column as a sealed unit.

As for the check valve - there is a little more to it than just the PSI it has to withstand. With a 1 sq inch area at 15 psi the valve only has to resist 15 pounds of pressure. However, with a 2 sq inch at 15 psi the valve only has to resist 15 pounds of pressure just as in the 1 sq inch one, but the rubber diaphram is 2 sq inches so is subjected to 30 pounds - we have to consider "strength of materials" in situations like this.

You will also find smaller diameter pipes rated for higher pressures than larger pipes. A 1" pipe has a circumfrence of 3.14", a 4" pipe is 12.56". So while the pressure is the same, the 4" pipe has to resist 4x the forces because of it's larger surface area.

I plan to use sched 80 at the pump.Thanks

 

[plowhog]

Can anyone tell me how much the water might weigh, no bourbon and whiskey involved :dance1:

I guess I misunderstood based on the first post about pushing water.

You wrote: "My intention is to push that column of water from the bottom to the top and I need to know this answer so I can plan the rest of the pump accordingly."

Based on the word push, I believed you were pushing water from a lower location, where your pump was at, to a location higher than the pump. Apparently not?

The link you posted had this description: "I am going to use this to pull water from about 80 feet in my well. No need for electricity to get water any more. People use this setup to pull water from hundreds of feet."

Perhaps that is the reason for the double pipe? Pushing down one pipe to force water up? I didn't realize from the description that water could flow from one pipe into the other?

 

[1930]

I guess I misunderstood based on the first post about pushing water.

You wrote: "My intention is to push that column of water from the bottom to the top and I need to know this answer so I can plan the rest of the pump accordingly."


Based on the word push, I believed you were pushing water from a lower location to a higher location. Apparently not?

The link you posted had this description: "I am going to use this to pull water from about 80 feet in my well. No need for electricity to get water any more. People use this setup to pull water from hundreds of feet."

Perhaps that is the reason for the double pipe ..... pushing down one pipe to force water up? I also didn't realize there was room for water flow from one pipe into the other?

I am still pushing the water, I am pushing it from the bottom of the pipe to the top, I cant help how someone else phrased it on a link I gave.

Its not possible to pull water from any depth greater than >30' with a hand pump

Its no problem for me and I hope I do not sound unappreciative.

 

[1930]

I guess I misunderstood based on the first post about pushing water.

You wrote: "My intention is to push that column of water from the bottom to the top and I need to know this answer so I can plan the rest of the pump accordingly."

Based on the word push, I believed you were pushing water from a lower location, where your pump was at, to a location higher than the pump. Apparently not?

The link you posted had this description: "I am going to use this to pull water from about 80 feet in my well. No need for electricity to get water any more. People use this setup to pull water from hundreds of feet."

Perhaps that is the reason for the double pipe? Pushing down one pipe to force water up? I didn't realize from the description that water could flow from one pipe into the other?

The second pipe is nothing more than a handle, some would call it the sucker rod but I wont go there. Again its all explained fairly clear in the link I gave

 

[MF RED in MT]

Area of a 2.067" ID pipe = (Pii / 4) x 2.067squared
(3.14 / 4) x 4.27 =
0.785 x 4.27 = 3.354 square inches

Area of a 1.315 OD pipe = (Pii / 4) x 1.315squared
(3.14 / 4) x 1.73 =
0.785 x 1.73 = 1.357 square inches

Volume of 2.067 ID x 100' pipe = 2.067 x 100'
2.067 x 1200" = 2480 cubic inches

Volume of 1.357 OD x 100 pipe = 1.357 x 100'
1.357 x 1200" = 1638.4 cubic inches

Subtract 1638.4 cubic inches from 2480 cubic inches = 841.6 cubic inches.

1 gallon displaces 231 cubic inches

841.6 / 231 = 3.64 gallons

1 gallon weighs 8.34 pounds

3.64 gallons x 8.34 pounds = 30.3576 pounds

Someone double check me, please. I've had some Captain Morgan and Dr. Pepper. :drink:

I have not had any Captain Morgan and Dr. Pepper but I'm to old to scratch this answer out even with a calculator.

So I use a couple of on line conversion calculators to get the weight of water (at 40 degrees F is just a guess for a well) and the answer I come up with is 86.595 pounds.

First is for a "Tube Volume Calculator": where d2= 2.067" and d1= 1.315" and the length is 100' which equals to 1.3871353296075 cubic feet.

Second is for a "Water Weight Calculator" : where 1.3871353296075 cubic feet equals 86.595 pounds of water at 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

Tube Volume Calculator:

Volume Calculator

Water Weight Calculator:

https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/common/water-weight.php

Maybe this helps a little and does not confuse the answer the OP was looking for?

Anyway, enjoy your Captain Morgan & Dr. Pepper (I do drink Dr. Pepper),

KC

edit: for the water weight calculator you will have to change the "convert from" to Cubic Feet [ft3], and add in 1.3871353296075 for the volume, and change the water temperature to 40F, and then convert to get the pounds of water answer of 86.595, because the link has wiped out this information.

 

[plowhog]

Its no problem for me and I hope I do not sound unappreciative.

No problem. Just fyi, when I read in the first post: "My intention is to push that column of water from the bottom to the top," I had no idea that "the bottom" you were describing was 100 below you down into a well. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who read it that way, as your link didn't come until later. Maybe that explains the wide variety of responses.

Now it is much more clear. Thanks!

 

[MossRoad]

I ran the number you have on my calculator and came up slightly different, so I rechecked by long multiplication by hand and confirmed what my calculator said - 3.35195 square inches. Then I re-did the calculations using pi to 10 digits and got 3.345871574 but since we started with 3 decimal places for pipe diameter, the result should be 3 also, so 3.346 square inches. I went thru and checked the rest and they're all close enough to what I get, it doesn't matter. I end up with a little over 30 pounds as well.


...

Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[MossRoad]

You calculated volume of the outer pipe wrong, you should have used the area you calculated in the first step, not the diameter.

Please be a little clearer, highlight it in red or something, as I'm a little bleary eyed. :drink:

The OP said only the area between the outer wall of the small pipe and the inner wall of the large pipe would contain water.

So I had to first figure the volume of the large pipe inner cylinder, and remove the volume of the small pipe outer cylinder.

That gave me the volume of the space between the outer wall of the small pipe and the inner wall of the large pipe.

I divided that number by the number of cubic inches in a gallon.

Then I multiplied the number of gallons by the weight of a gallon of water

 

[MossRoad]

I have not had any Captain Morgan and Dr. Pepper but I'm to old to scratch this answer out even with a calculator.

So I use a couple of on line conversion calculators to get the weight of water (at 40 degrees F is just a guess for a well) and the answer I come up with is 86.595 pounds.

First is for a "Tube Volume Calculator": where d2= 2.067" and d1= 1.315" and the length is 100' which equals to 1.3871353296075 cubic feet.

Second is for a "Water Weight Calculator" : where 1.3871353296075 cubic feet equals 86.595 pounds of water at 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

Tube Volume Calculator:

Volume Calculator

Water Weight Calculator:

https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/common/water-weight.php

Maybe this helps a little and does not confuse the answer the OP was looking for?

Anyway, enjoy your Captain Morgan & Dr. Pepper (I do drink Dr. Pepper),

KC

edit: for the water weight calculator you will have to change the "convert from" to Cubic Feet [ft3], and add in 1.3871353296075 for the volume, and change the water temperature to 40F, and then convert to get the pounds of water answer of 86.595, because the link has wiped out this information.

You didn't subtract the space the inner pipe takes up full of air inside the large pipe. I did that as well the first time and came up with 80 something pounds as well until the OP clarified that water will only be in the outer jacket and not in the inner pipe.

 

[MossRoad]

Can anyone tell me how much the water might weigh, no bourbon and whiskey involved :dance1:

30.3576 pounds

Disclaimer, I'm not a mathematician, but I did sleep on a waterbed last night. :drink:

 

[jenkinsph]

Assuming that a column of water 100 ft tall needs to be pulled up or lifted. Figure .433 lbs/ft as other have stated. So
100 ft height would be 43.3 lbs per square inch of area of water column.

Pi x the radius Squared for area of circle. Do the math for larger diameter column. Deduct the smaller pipe from the pipe and
come up with the residual area in square inches. Multiply times 43.3 for your answer.

I found the residual area to be 3.35 less 1.35 for 2 square inches of area.

So 86.6 lbs. for 100 ft column. Or . 866 lb. per ft.

 

[jenkinsph]

I have a piece of 3" galv. vent pipe 48" long for a bucket. Still need to attach a piece of inner tube and bottom to it for lifting water.
In a crisis scenario this will yield about 1.5 gallons per trip cycle. One toilet flush, pot of water for dishes or whatever. Better than not
having anything without power. My water level is about 95 feet below casing. So about a 20 lb. pull on a rope for this I have everything on hand to complete a manual windlass for it if it becomes necessary..

 

[Grumpycat]

Agree with what bcp first said: weight of water, diameter of pipe, length of pipe, does not matter. Only matters how high you are trying to lift the water.

There will be piping losses requiring more pressure the faster you try to push the water.

Water head tables: Water Pressure and Head

 

[jenkinsph]

Agree with what bcp first said: weight of water, diameter of pipe, length of pipe, does not matter. Only matters how high you are trying to lift the water.

There will be piping losses requiring more pressure the faster you try to push the water.

Water head tables: Water Pressure and Head

You need to read the thread to answer in a meaningful way. All of us understand water pressure and head but there is a different question being asked.

 

[1930]

30.3576 pounds

Disclaimer, I did sleep on a waterbed last night. :drink:

That would make you an expert than I guess, Thanks, 30 pounds I can lift no problem

 

[mcfarmall]

If you're using a sucker rod pump with a cylinder at the bottom of the well, you ARE lifting the entire weight of the water above the cylinder, not the static head pressure. The deeper the cylinder the bigger windmill you need to lift the water if the cylinder diameter remains constant.