USDOT number - What it means?

[Rara Avis]

I got my reply for the WI DOT contact. He didn't know anything other than 10,001# = USDOT. He said to contact state patrol for Farm plate and possible exemptions as they would be the most up to date on that.

So I did. Well, 2 1/2 hours later and calls to the scales, other inspection officers and several people in the state headquarters an answer was found.

Side note --

The officers at the State patrol were very nice, professional and stuck to the search. Internally, they were conflicted with several differing interpretations. It's funny too, because depending on where you looked, all the interpretations could be correct. Plus the laws are being changed as there is an uproar from the guys between 10,001 and 26,001. So, if you have a Q - Be patient as even the experts may not know and the laws could be in flux.

So, the final answer is that if I get both Farm or "dual purpose Farm" truck plates AND Farm tags on the trailer then I am exempt from the USDOT requirements. Dual purpose Farm tags are stated weight for non-farm and up to 12,000# for farm use. So an 8000# tag is bought, but for farm stuff up to 12,000# (or GVWR of the truck) for no more $. Straight Farm plates are good for up to 38,000# and exempt from CDL and USDOT requirements. They are also about 1/4 the cost of regular plates. Go figure, heavier must be safer....


However, if I was hauling a race car to the drag strip - I would be commercial and would need the USDOT number. They agree that is crazy and they don't go looking to ticket people like that. (Other areas in WI have been!)

So, I will be tagged with the correct FARM plates for truck and trailer VERY shortly.

Side note -

If I didn't declare myself a farm on IRS form 1040, it would be all personal use and would also fall outside of the USDOT requirements. Crazy, and obviously driven by politicians, not the hard working officers I was dealing with. Well hats off to the Officers and a loud Raspberry to the politicians!

jb

I told you so...I told you so...

Congrats on encountering common sense in State Govenrment, no less...

 

[john_bud]

Paul,

Yes - You did! And you were correct. (thanks!) But, it isn't a question that the local Troopers were used to getting, and they had some confusion among them selves. To be honest, I felt bad taking up so much of their time. They were working so hard to get to the bottom line answer, but couldn't find the correct statute or regulation to support what they thought was right.


Snow,

The 10,001 is the COMBINED weight of the TRUCK + TRAILER. Some states base that on actual weight, most base it on Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) for the truck plus either the registered weight, GVWR or actual weight for the trailer (which ever is higher). Unless your truck has a GVWR of under 1 pound - you are in the DOT number zone!

The short story is that unless you have a ranger/S10 and a 3000# one axle trailer, you are probably going to be over 10,001 pounds. It's real hard to convince someone that you are not getting some form of compensation when you are toting a $20,000 tractor and a lawn mower - it looks like a lawn care business.
jb

 

[Rara Avis]

Paul,

Yes - You did! And you were correct. (thanks!) But, it isn't a question that the local Troopers were used to getting, and they had some confusion among them selves. To be honest, I felt bad taking up so much of their time. They were working so hard to get to the bottom line answer, but couldn't find the correct statute or regulation to support what they thought was right.

jb

Now you are just limited to 150 airmiles of home...UNLESS you want to request a one TRIP permit...now we open a real can of worms...

If you are having trouble sleeping...take a gander at one trip permits... ...instant solution to insomnia...

 

[SnowRidge]

Well, I read the FMCSA and TN rules. I don't need to do anything, as far as I can tell. Tennessee even completely exempts farm trailers from licensing, which I already knew. Actually, you hardly see any utility trailers with tags here, even a lot of the commercial guys who are required to license them don't bother, and they don't seem to get stopped.

I did see one oddity in the TN rules. The farm exemption mirrors the 150 mile rule already discussed, except for log keeping, which has only a 100 mile exemption, although it too seems to have a few loopholes of its own.

I still have a bit of a concern about travelling to property I own in Florida. It's not a farm, and there is nothing commercial about it, but I usually tow a trailer when I go down. On the last trip, I hauled equipment to clean up after a hurricane. I don't think that kind of travel falls under any of these regs, but things seem to be in a state of flux. Nobody in LE seemed to show any interest the last time. I hope it stays that way.

 

[john_bud]

Just remember, it's your tractor on your trailer pulled by your truck going to your house and there is no compensation of any kind.

jb

I would copy this and keep it in the glove box

http://tennessee.gov/sos/acts/104/pub/pc0400.pdf

 

[tlbuser]

By the way...tlbuser...I have a CLASS-A CDL with all the bells and whistles excepting Haz-Mat...and that was because I couldn't find a vendor willing to pay the $89(?)Fee for the Fed Investigation of CDLs with HazMat Edorsements... ...I understand these rules and I was providing data to J_B

Uh huh, and the short condensed version I gave him was wrong how ???

Private carrier, non-commercial isn't required log books or multi-million liability policies either.

Your results may vary by state.

 

[Rara Avis]

Uh huh, and the short condensed version I gave him was wrong how ???

Private carrier, non-commercial isn't required log books or multi-million liability policies either.

Your results may vary by state.

As long as you stay in the state of Vermont and are hauling non-commercial, 10000 GVWR or less, no problem. A DOT number is not much more than a registration system. If you really think you need one, you gotta have a physical card to go with it.

THIS is what I responded to...your advice to me...I already knew what you were so graciously telling me...

 

[john_bud]

So the saga contiues.....


Went to the DMV today to determine what was needed to change from regular truck to Dual purpose Farm and to change the trailer from regualar trailer to Farm Trailer tags.

The truck was just renewed, starting 10/1, so swapping it around was a $5 fee and 5 minutes.

The trailer stuff needs to be mailed in around November or it will mess up the system as it goes out of registration on December 31.

BUT, the DMV had a nice little thing hanging that stated that all FARM trucks need DOT numbers. Naturally, they don't include any reference to legislation! Got the standard, "you can do it, but ..." line. I showed them the MV-1 form for registration that specifically does not include Farm in the requirement for USDOT number (unless it's for over 38,000#).

So, being paranoid, I spent day looking up stuff. Found WI Chapter Trans 327 referenced by a doc on the need for dot numbers. Here's that one
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/statepatrol/docs/new-entrant-safety-prog.pdf

It stated that ALL 10,001 and above needs a USDOT. But, actually reading the referenced documents shows that in section 327.09(7) that the provisions of this chapter don't apply to any farm truck & semi-trailer or Farm Trailer under 26,001#. Plain as day. Naturally, that's only for intrastate. But that's all I need.

Anyone else care to read it and see if it's correct?

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans327.pdf

 

[Rara Avis]

So the saga contiues.....


Went to the DMV today to determine what was needed to change from regular truck to Dual purpose Farm and to change the trailer from regualar trailer to Farm Trailer tags.

The truck was just renewed, starting 10/1, so swapping it around was a $5 fee and 5 minutes.

The trailer stuff needs to be mailed in around November or it will mess up the system as it goes out of registration on December 31.

BUT, the DMV had a nice little thing hanging that stated that all FARM trucks need DOT numbers. Naturally, they don't include any reference to legislation! Got the standard, "you can do it, but ..." line. I showed them the MV-1 form for registration that specifically does not include Farm in the requirement for USDOT number (unless it's for over 38,000#).

So, being paranoid, I spent day looking up stuff. Found WI Chapter Trans 327 referenced by a doc on the need for dot numbers. Here's that one
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/statepatrol/docs/new-entrant-safety-prog.pdf

It stated that ALL 10,001 and above needs a USDOT. But, actually reading the referenced documents shows that in section 327.09(7) that the provisions of this chapter don't apply to any farm truck & semi-trailer or Farm Trailer under 26,001#. Plain as day. Naturally, that's only for intrastate. But that's all I need.

Anyone else care to read it and see if it's correct?

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/trans/trans327.pdf

Yep...this is your out...
(7) The provisions of this chapter do not apply to any farm
truck or dual purpose farm truck combined with any semitrailer
or farm trailer, or any vehicle combined with a horse trailer, if the
vehicle combination痴 gross combination weight rating, registered
weight, and actual gross weight do not exceed 26,000
pounds, the vehicle combination does not include a commercial
motor vehicle described in s. 340.01 (8) (c) or (d), Stats., and the
vehicle combination is operated solely in intrastate commerce

 

[john_bud]

Paul,

Thanks, that's what I thought it was meaning, but after reading A LOT of this type of stuff my eyes were watering, ears were ringing, fingers were tingling and my brain hurt!

I have printed that whole chapter and will carry it in the truck folded around the registration.


This is what the DMV has hanging on the partition of each cubical where the counter people are.

I also found lots and lots of stuff that says that farmers need USDOT numbers. But oddly enough, only one referenced the actual statue and when I read the exceptions it is obvious that they don't --> for 26,000 and under combined weight or rated / tagged weight.

Then again, who said government employees have the time to check out the facts? I probably have 30+ hours invested in getting to this point. (and yes, I have much more time than money, so 30 hours VS a large ticket is a good investment.)

 

[WBWI]

john_bud,

This is slightly different from your issue but this just came up with a friend this week. My friend owns a combination horse/camping trailer and was told he may need a DOT number to transport his horses to a camping destination. The requirement falls into the same BS catagory as you have questioned. Hope this doesn't derail your thread.

BTW this is also in WI.

 

[john_bud]

WBWI,

See my post above with the link to trans327.pdf? Go there, print it off. Highlight the execptions where it states that vehicles pulling horse trailers are exempt. Hand it to your friend and make his day.

Section 327.9(7)
(7) The provisions of this chapter do not apply to any farm
truck or dual purpose farm truck combined with any semitrailer
or farm trailer,

or any vehicle combined with a horse trailer,

if the vehicle combination weight rating, gross combination weight rating,
registered weight, and actual gross weight do not exceed 26,000
pounds, the vehicle combination does not include a commercial
motor vehicle described in s. 340.01 (8) (c) or (d), Stats., and the
vehicle combination is operated solely in intrastate commerce.

 

[WBWI]

Thanks! Just printed it and highlighted the section you referenced.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

IN KENTUCKY...The laws have been on the books for some time, and have been intermittantly enforced, requiring DOT #'s to be plainly marked on commercial vehicles (trailer or not) over 10,001gvwr for some time. Farm use (so long as legally tagged as such) is excluded under condition of being with-in the state, cargo/vehicle is being used exclusively for farm use (i.e. not hauling your tractor to a tractor pull, or any other extra-curricular activities) , and with-in 150 miles of "home". NON commercial vehicles are also excluded from DOT #, CDL, ect. Commercial is interpreted as "recieving compensation" for any activity involving the vehicle and/or any of it's cargo. In the eyes of State Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Officers, that would include recieving a $2 plastic trophy for "best in class" at an antique tractor show. ANY compensation, of ANY description makes you commercial in their eyes. It's then up to you, your lawyer and your ability to convince a judge you AREN'T commercial. (And not many win that battle from what I hear)

Each state seems to have a yearly "point of emphasis" on one or several issues. Kentucky went on a search and destroy mission 4 years ago over DOT #'s. This year has apparently been brakes and lighting on trailers, as well as following distances on interstate highways.

I spoke with my "insider" at the Ky CVE office yesterday, questioning him about any new regs about to be sprung upon us at Jan. 1. No NEW laws, but a few older ones will be focused upon in 2008. (hint...Ky commercial truckers, have your med card up to date)

Oddly enough, you can tow/haul almost ANYTHING without ANY restriction, if the tow vehicle qualifies as an RV.

 

[Builder]

Guys,

Just spoke w/ rep from DOT. Said you only need a DOT number if you're doing interstate commerce (crossing state borders) and over 10,000 lbs .

 

[john_bud]

Guys,

Just spoke w/ rep from DOT. Said you only need a DOT number if you're doing interstate commerce (crossing state borders) and over 10,000 lbs .

For your state. The other 49 may differ. Some like WI, enfore the interstate commerce on all intrastate activity as well.

jb

 

[Farmwithjunk]

For your state. The other 49 may differ. Some like WI, enfore the interstate commerce on all intrastate activity as well.

jb

Same here. Kentucky requires DOT registration and visible DOT #'s on truck and trailer for any commercial vehicle over 10,001, regardless of crossing state lines or not. It's been that way for years, just recently being enforced . From what I'm told by DOT officer, that's the way it is in all states, just selectively interpreted and enforced in many. DOT (federal) regs read the same, regardless of which state you're reading them in. How each state chooses to interpret and enforce varies a great deal.

 

[Builder]

For your state. The other 49 may differ. Some like WI, enfore the interstate commerce on all intrastate activity as well.

jb

Fair enough.

In PA, it's not required unless you leave the state to do business.

It's crazy that you guys with a dually pickup need DOT numbers splattered all over your nice new trucks and my behemoth dump truck needs nothing.

 

[john_bud]

Well, actually your dump truck probably needs USDOT numbers too as I imagine it is over 26,001 and you probably are towing over 10,001.

Remember, it's not just the ticket for not having the DOT numbers. They can then also ticket you for not having the rest of the DOT stuff! (safety inspections, log book, medical card, commercial insurance, etc). Sort of like piling on in football. I have no idea of what all they can do, as every trooper I spoke with had a different take.



On edit----------------

I think you may need to look into your requirements a little more. Unless your dump truck and trailer combine to less than 17,000.

PENNSYLVANIA-BASED COMMERCIAL VEHICLES
REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS
Pennsylvania is one of 59 jurisdictions in North America who are members of the International Registration Plan (IRP). Except for Alaska and Hawaii, all other states and the District of Columbia are members of the IRP. In addition, the Canadian Provinces of Alberta, British Columbia, Manitola, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec, Prince Edward Island and Saskatchewan participate in the plan.

The IRP applies to vehicles that operate through (interstate) or within (intrastate) any of the member jurisdictions and that are used for the transportation of persons for hire or are designed, used or maintained for
transportation of property. The plan covers motor vehicles with a gross weight or registered gross weight in excess of 26,000 pounds, combinations with a gross weight in excess of 26,000 pounds and motor vehicles
having three or more axles, regardless of weight.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-pacv.pdf




Also-

INTRASTATE DRIVERS operating a commercial motor vehicle with a GVWR - gross vehicle weight rating or GCWR - gross combination weight rating of 17,001 pounds or greater must have on their person, a medical examiners certificate or photographic copy stating they are qualified to operate a commercial motor vehicle. The driver must have been medically certified within the previous 24 months
Motor Carrier Assistance Program

 

[Rara Avis]

Well, actually your dump truck probably needs USDOT numbers too as I imagine it is over 26,001 and you probably are towing over 10,001.

Remember, it's not just the ticket for not having the DOT numbers. They can then also ticket you for not having the rest of the DOT stuff! (safety inspections, log book, medical card, commercial insurance, etc). Sort of like piling on in football. I have no idea of what all they can do, as every trooper I spoke with had a different take.

Here is an example of what they can do....

The list of 12 violations included, no in truck fire extinguisher (the one in the trailer doesn't count), insufficient warning devices (triangles), no record of duty status, driver failing to retain previous 7 days log, driver vehicle inspection report, operating a CMV without a periodic inspection (got that one twice), not being licensed for type of vehicle being operated, no drivers medical certificate on driver's possession, no pretrip inspection and finally a log violation. Also we did not a DOT number displayed or an ID number or name on the side of the truck. Fortunally, I was only cited for three of those offensed, officer no.394's printer ran out of paper, my lucky day. He also informed me I was now "out of service until qualified" and had it not been 97 degrees outside he would have pulled us off the road.

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