Tractor Shopping Observations

[Verticaltrx]

Not really true. The Ram 3500 can be obtained with a 6 speed manual. I don't know about ford or chevy. I do a lot of towing heavy loads so I prefer the automatic in my truck. Cars are another story. Fewer cars are coming with manual transmissions.

I realize that. My father just bought a new 2010 Ram 3500 cab chassis last year with the Cummins and 6spd manual. He (and myself) have been lifetime Ford owners, but since the Superduty was no longer available with a manual, he decided that he liked the new Dodge better.

My feeling is that with Dodge being the only one offering the manual, one of two things will happen. Either Ford and/or Chevy will see there still is a market for trucks with a manual transmission, and bring it back in some models, or within a couple years Dodge will drop it too. My money is on the later.

 

[danceswithdirt]

As to the original post about pushing more hp, in each tractor purchase I've made that is true. Dealers each time asked what I'm looking for then suggested I consider a size larger. Each quoted almost word for word "rarely have customers come back wishing theyd gotten a smaller tractor".

I wish my new 7040 was hst. To me it's a no brainer, great performance in a operator friendly package. You rarely go wrong with more comforts. I've 130,000 miles on my 08 f350. I used to put 55k a year on a truck. I would rather have a nice truck to sit in than a nice recliner at home. I spend more time in the truck. I ran an open IHI 55 mini ex for two weeks last year in august. Hi temps at or near 100. This was 10-12 hrs a day. By 2:30 I was sweated down, hot and tired. A mech used a heat gun and got a reading of 119 on the platform. To cool off I would get off and stand by the truck with a bottle water. It was cooler standing in the sun than on the ex under the canopy. My 4105 was just that bad, Lot of trans and hyd heat. Put one of my guys in cab and a/c, you cant cant get them out of it.

 

[jenkinsph]

I realize that. My father just bought a new 2010 Ram 3500 cab chassis last year with the Cummins and 6spd manual. He (and myself) have been lifetime Ford owners, but since the Superduty was no longer available with a manual, he decided that he liked the new Dodge better.

My feeling is that with Dodge being the only one offering the manual, one of two things will happen. Either Ford and/or Chevy will see there still is a market for trucks with a manual transmission, and bring it back in some models, or within a couple years Dodge will drop it too. My money is on the later.

I would prefer that everyone could choose the tranny of their choice too. I would also comment that Ford and Chevy automatic transmissions today are extremely good. I have the automatics in all four of my F250 to F550 trucks and really like them. I wish the engines were as good as the transmissions.

 

[danceswithdirt]

My ex brother in law was dead against any auto trans in heavy work. "No way any auto can hold up against a geared trans". He pointed out that in heavy applications like lowboys carrying huge 100k lb loads, no auto could hold up. I told him I've worked with off road trucks that weigh twice that amount empty. And they all have auto trans. Usually get 12k hrs on the tranny.

 

[ManAtArms]

I agree with many of the posters that manufacturers are selling what the consumer wants.

I'm not an expert, but I would wager that the market for a simple/heavier tractor with a bias towards ground engagement and without a loader is probably MUCH smaller today as a percentage of total sales than it was 30 years ago.

If I may draw a distinction, I bet the bulk of the sales from the likes of Kubota are going to "landowners", not necessarily "farmers". People who have some property but don't necessary need the tractor to work the earth, or even to make a living. CUTs have wide appeal and can perform a multitude of functions for a landowner. How many people here on TBN own a tractor and have less than 10 acres? 5 acres or less?

I bought my M59 as a multipurpose tool. Although I suppose it's heavy enough/geared low enough to drag an implement and work a field, I don't have much need for that function. I use the backhoe and loader nearly every day. Plow snow, push over trees, auger some fence post holes, move an outdoor furnace, dig a small foundation, build rock walls, carry mulch, maintain the gravel driveway, dig drainage trenches, tear out stumps, hold logs in the backhoe thumb for sawing firewood...the list is endless. For me a tractor is the ultimate multipurpose tool.

Now I find myself wanting a lighter tractor so I can avoid tearing up the lawn!

-mark

 

[Mike476]

How "Old School" do you want to get, we use to have to start our tractors with a hand crank.

My mother's family farm had a couple of those, can't remember what they were. I do remember at 10 or 11 years old I used to love visiting the farm in Ontario, meant we got to drive those old tractors around the fields for hours.

I have an old 135 that does most of what I need done, doubt I'll ever get rid of it but I am looking for a newer tractor with a loader for chores. As far as HST, I wouldn't hesitate but honestly am leaning towards Dyna on a MF 1660, a bit of the best of both worlds and leaps ahead of what I'm driving now (no power steering or loader and a standard two range 6/2 tranny).

 

[Depmandog]

I think most of you are misunderstanding the nature of my original post.

I'm not saying they are none out there. What I'm talking about is TRENDS, wait a few years and see how many real farming type tractors are left that are under 50HP and 50 grand.

The auto manufactures are trying to sell as many units as possible, while keeping costs as low as possible. Their answer to this is to have as few sub sub assembly lines feed the least amount of sub assembly lines giving the consumer more gizmos but less options.

The last vehicle we bought, you basically had three options. Plain which had PS, PB, AC, AM/FM/CD, V-6, 4sp Auto and a bunch of other stuff but the outside looked plain (black grill no chrome)

The middle option had a few exterior trim pieces, an enhanced sound system, and a few other creature comforts.

The top option package looked sharp in the outside and had factory nav, and DVD players.

Several thousand separated each option package.

Back to the manufactures: to eliminate errors, the workers are not expected to "think". They don't want them be responsible for reading a build sheet to see this car gets an ash tray or the coin holder. Everything is built in sub assemblies with the worker doing "robotic" work, same thing over and over.

To compensate we get three options: stuff, more stuff and loaded. You want "onions" - you gotta buy the loaded package.

To compensate - you have the dealers offering the add-ons. Oh you know the isn't efficient or cost effective to you the buyer, but to the company it is.

I think the trend will be the same for tractors.

 

[CaptJCHill]

I think you are right on and on a side note,I have seen auto dealerships adding the next trim levels'chrome grill,stripes ,wheels etc.

John

 

[TripleR]

My mother's family farm had a couple of those, can't remember what they were. I do remember at 10 or 11 years old I used to love visiting the farm in Ontario, meant we got to drive those old tractors around the fields for hours.

I have an old 135 that does most of what I need done, doubt I'll ever get rid of it but I am looking for a newer tractor with a loader for chores. As far as HST, I wouldn't hesitate but honestly am leaning towards Dyna on a MF 1660, a bit of the best of both worlds and leaps ahead of what I'm driving now (no power steering or loader and a standard two range 6/2 tranny).

We still have some old Ford 600's, one of which I grew up driving and my brothers still use them, age and disability kicked me off them a few years ago. I was fascinated by our power steering on our Ford 841 then Case 995. My father in law bought our first "modern loader tractor" in 86/87 and boy was I loved that state of the art thing, 12F/3R and two lever loader. We still have it, but I can't drive it either, but my brother LOVES it.

Then we got a synch shuttle Case with cab, then 8640 with hydro shuttle to go with our 5030 HST. I am sure there will come a time when these will be "old school" as that is a moving target.

Right now I primarily run an HST and hydro shuttle and like both of them.

 

[MrWhippy]

The auto manufactures are trying to sell as many units as possible, while keeping costs as low as possible. Their answer to this is to have as few sub sub assembly lines feed the least amount of sub assembly lines giving the consumer more gizmos but less options.

The last vehicle we bought, you basically had three options. Plain which had PS, PB, AC, AM/FM/CD, V-6, 4sp Auto and a bunch of other stuff but the outside looked plain (black grill no chrome)

The middle option had a few exterior trim pieces, an enhanced sound system, and a few other creature comforts.

The top option package looked sharp in the outside and had factory nav, and DVD players.

Several thousand separated each option package.

Back to the manufactures: to eliminate errors, the workers are not expected to "think". They don't want them be responsible for reading a build sheet to see this car gets an ash tray or the coin holder. Everything is built in sub assemblies with the worker doing "robotic" work, same thing over and over.

To compensate we get three options: stuff, more stuff and loaded. You want "onions" - you gotta buy the loaded package.

To compensate - you have the dealers offering the add-ons. Oh you know the isn't efficient or cost effective to you the buyer, but to the company it is.

I think the trend will be the same for tractors.

Exactly this.

Our 1 Ton dually is a good example. We wanted diesel, automatic transmission and heated seats (Does wonders for a back after all day at a horse show, day after day followed by long drives).

That wasn't an available pattern. So, we got DVD, XM, Leather, and sunroof confused2 at no charge, just so the dealer could get us in the truck.

(btw, the sunroof is a PITA)