Skidding winch

[Stomper]

I agree with once owning one you couldnt imagine living with out it but I just wish there was a more affordable way to do this for the home owner just looking to cut 6-10 cords a year for themselves. But I guess convenience comes at a cost.
Its too bad the belt drive one wouldnt work for light logging. It would be cheap and easy to build and I have most of the stuff laying around with exception to the belts and pulleys. Biggest trees I would be harvesting around here would be in the 14 range but most would be 10

 

[Jstpssng]

Here's a new winch for $2695, if you're within traveling range of Berlin NH. Norse 35 3 Point Hitch - 3-6 HP
I'm not sure what the shipping charges are if you live farther away. (Note that TBN drops the zero when posting links, it actually says 30-60 HP)

They've really gone up since I bought my first one. Back in 2002 I could have bought the smallest Farmi for $1200.

 

[Stomper]

Thats actually not a bad price but I live in the cold frozen north of the Canadian Precambrian shield, hence the small diameter trees. Minus 35c here today. just another day in paradise.
Thats why in a lot of my posts you will notice I have a tendency to want to build tractor attachments rather than buy. Not a lot of tractor supply places around here. Closest one is 6 hour drive south. ****, I have only two roads out of town. One road has one town between us and civilization 350km away and the other is a 325km drive just to hit the next town and its smaller than my town. The joys of remote living but I wouldnt have it any other way.

 

[John_Mc]

Here is mine I built last winter. It works great, very similar to commercial made units, I have refined the engagement mechanism since the "first pull" Homemade logging winch first pull - YouTube
I have 200 ft of cable, a 6-1 gear reduction via chain and sprockets, a clutch between the large sprocket and drum, I estimate it at about 80ft/min, it could be faster but it works as is. I started with a budget of $500. I ended up at a little over $700, still not bad for what it is. I pulled out about 8 cords this spring with it and it worked great once I got the bugs worked out. My build of it can be found here https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/386238-diy-logging-winch-build.html?highlight=
Any questions feel free to ask and good luck, it was a fun learning experience.

That looks like it's working well for you. For the sound of it, you were running at rather low engine RPM in that video, so you could get more speed if you wanted on an easy pull?

Any idea how much pull you can get with that?

 

[John_Mc]

I agree with once owning one you couldnt imagine living with out it but I just wish there was a more affordable way to do this for the home owner just looking to cut 6-10 cords a year for themselves. But I guess convenience comes at a cost.

I searched for years looking for a decent used one, since I just couldn't justify the price of new for my own use. When I went in on a partnership with some other families in my area on some more forest land, I finally bought a new one. I figured we'd get enough use out of it as a group. It's worked out well. I generally barter winch services for other help (I HATE cleaning up and moving brush when we are done. Others are gratefull enough for the winching help that I seldom have to clean up by own slash.)

Is there anyone around you'd consider going in as partners with on a winch?

Its too bad the belt drive one wouldn't work for light logging. It would be cheap and easy to build and I have most of the stuff laying around with exception to the belts and pulleys. Biggest trees I would be harvesting around here would be in the 14 range but most would be 10

I don't know... that belt drive seems to work well enough for the guy who made that winch. I doubt it's the equal of a commercially made logging winch, but it's an interesting idea. If I had most of the parts other than the belts and pulleys, and didn't mind putting some time into it, I just might start keeping my eye out for some cheap used pulleys and let that decide whether I tried to make one or not. If you have the time to put into it, it's hard to beat almost free.

 

[Stomper]

I totally agree that the belt drive one isnt even close to being in the same league as the commercial ones but I was impressed to see that it worked pretty well for him. I work at a zinc and copper mine and they have lots of old parts from from years of upgrading the milling equipment. I will scrounge around and see if I can find some old parts they are willing to give away. If I can, I will give it a go. Even if it doesnt work out it will be a fun project to try.
Im sure you would find out quite quickly how much that winch would pull because the deciding factor woul probably be the slippage of the belt system. Im thinking it would be hard to overload that winch.

 

[4570Man]

I totally agree that the belt drive one isnt even close to being in the same league as the commercial ones but I was impressed to see that it worked pretty well for him. I work at a zinc and copper mine and they have lots of old parts from from years of upgrading the milling equipment. I will scrounge around and see if I can find some old parts they are willing to give away. If I can, I will give it a go. Even if it doesnt work out it will be a fun project to try.
Im sure you would find out quite quickly how much that winch would pull because the deciding factor woul probably be the slippage of the belt system. Im thinking it would be hard to overload that winch.

The winch in the video was built pretty light duty. Understandable since it’s on a tiny tractor. I think you could upscale the concept to work on a stronger winch. You might need a power assisted tensioner but the concept is sound. They transmit a lot more power than you’ll get out of a compact or light utility tractor with belts. You could use a gearbox to reduce the drum speed and drive the gear box with belts at a 1-1 ratio to significantly reduced the toque on the belts.

 

[davedj1]

That looks like it's working well for you. For the sound of it, you were running at rather low engine RPM in that video, so you could get more speed if you wanted on an easy pull?

Any idea how much pull you can get with that?

Yes I was only running at just above an idle so yes, I could get more speed if I throttled her up. I'm still learning it's performance procedure...lol
The cable I have is only rated at 4400# so I'm not sure on actual pull. I know I pulled some pretty heavy logs if you watch this Take of the day, firewooding. - YouTube it will give you an idea of the size of some of the trees I hauled with it.
If I owned a woodlot and didn't rely on scrounging places to get firewood I would invest in synthetic rope for the winch, I have it on my Jeep and love it.
One thing I would like to change on mine is to make the spool a little shorter, the way the cable is wound naturally it only uses part of it anyway so I may experiment this winter with welding in some sides to the spool to limit it.

 

[Stomper]

So you are saying run the belts from a shaft driven from the pto to the input shaft of a gear box and then have the winch on the output shaft of the gear box.

 

[4570Man]

So you are saying run the belts from a shaft driven from the pto to the input shaft of a gear box and then have the winch on the output shaft of the gear box.

Something like that. It would reduce the torque on the belts.

 

[WranglerX]

Seems to me on the small scale of low end of need and desire to make own , the PTO/belt driven winch with manual belt tensioner (idler) is about as simple as it gets and ideal for low production work ...Only thing I can see that would be improvement to belt drive style is a positive drive power release (push idler pulley away from belts) as clamp or some sort of "block" on cable snugs up tight to guide pulley to leverage power removal from winch drum..

Dale

 

[WranglerX]

Something like that. It would reduce the torque on the belts.

How about using a gear arrangement and spool from a failed electric winch (motor failure) and put PTO power into winch drive mechanism and all one would need to add is some sort of clutch (belts and idler tensioner) ...

Dale

 

[Stomper]

Definitely would reduce tension on the belts. Belts could also go from pto shaft up to a secondary shaft with a sprocket on the other end and chain from there up to the cable drum. Gears and chain would replace the gear box. Would be a lot cheaper than a gear box.
What kind of mechanical advantage do the commercial built winches have in the gearing of the sprockets

 

[4570Man]

Definitely would reduce tension on the belts. Belts could also go from pto shaft up to a secondary shaft with a sprocket on the other end and chain from there up to the cable drum. Gears and chain would replace the gear box. Would be a lot cheaper than a gear box.
What kind of mechanical advantage do the commercial built winches have in the gearing of the sprockets

It wouldn’t be that hard to figure out. You can determine the drum rpm if you know the diameter and the line speed. You’re right about the chains and sprockets being cheaper than a gear box. And you want your pulleys on the belt as large as space constraints allow. The bigger pulley has more surface area and takes more force to slip. Another way to gain performance aside from the obvious of adding more belts would be to increase the force on the tensioner. It really needs a compound lever like a pair of vice grips.

 

[Stomper]

Seems to me on the small scale of low end of need and desire to make own , the PTO/belt driven winch with manual belt tensioner (idler) is about as simple as it gets and ideal for low production work ...Only thing I can see that would be improvement to belt drive style is a positive drive power release (push idler pulley away from belts) as clamp or some sort of "block" on cable snugs up tight to guide pulley to leverage power removal from winch drum..

Dale

Would definitely be low production work for some guys but it would spee things up for me. Right now Its either dragging trees out with the quad to an area where I can block them up or just simply blocking them up where they lay and hauling them out in the quad trailer.

Are you saying instead of mechanically or physically engaging the idler pulley to create the winching, have tension on the belts all the time and have something to mechanically disengage the winching. If so the problem I could see in that would be if the disengaging mechanism failed there would be no way of stopping the winch in an emergency except to disengage the tractor pto.
Unless I am misunderstanding you

 

[4570Man]

How about using a gear arrangement and spool from a failed electric winch (motor failure) and put PTO power into winch drive mechanism and all one would need to add is some sort of clutch (belts and idler tensioner) ...

Dale

It’s way too delicate and too small to hold enough cable for a skidding winch.

 

[Stomper]

Here's a different take in a small light duty skidding winch for compact tractors. Its actually kind of cool, but the frame looks pretty light weight. I have been searching capstan winches also wondering if they would be the way to go for my light duty logging adventures.

Hydraulic Log Skidding Winch for Tractors - SkidWinch by Norwood Sawmills - YouTube

 

[John_Mc]

Here's a different take in a small light duty skidding winch for compact tractors. Its actually kind of cool, but the frame looks pretty light weight. I have been searching capstan winches also wondering if they would be the way to go for my light duty logging adventures.

Hydraulic Log Skidding Winch for Tractors - SkidWinch by Norwood Sawmills - YouTube

I've often wondered how well those work. They don't provide any information, such as pull rating and speed, but I guess providing that is complicated by the fact that it runs off of the hydraulic rear remotes on a tractor, so speed and pull will vary with the tractor's flow and pressure ratings for the rear remotes. Still, some recommended flow rates & pressures with example speeds and pulling power, as well as the make rated pull the system can withstand would be helpful.

The speed looks reasonable in the video: not as fast as my logging winch, but certainly faster than an electric winch.

If a Farmi or similar logging winch is not in your budget, one of these gas engine powered portable capstan winches might be of interest. They also sell a forestry kit of helpful things to use with the winch.

I've seen one of these demonstrated in a "Game of Logging" Storm Damage Clean-up class I participated in years ago. It was quite handy in that. I could see it being useful for personal logging/firewood use. I would not give up my 3 PT hitch logging winch for one of these, but I could see it being very useful for someone with not as much volume to move who could not justify the cost of a 3 pt hitch winch - or who was logging/firewooding with an ATV and wanted to up their game (both in speed and in pulling distance) from an ATV's electric winch.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

A logging winch is an investment, if you decide to sell it, you get most of your money back!

I could have spent the time building something halfazzed too, but it's a no brainer to buy something that actually WORKS "efficiently" and has some RESALE when I'm done with it!

Once you have one and use it, you will wonder why you didn't buy it waaaaay sooner!

SR

 

[Stomper]

I have never seen one before but they do seem to be a very useful and universal winch. The capstan that you posted is the one I have been researching. Definitely not going to have the pulling power your farmi has but they say its rated for 2000 pounds on a single line. Would be easy to build one like in the video and run it off the pto instead of hydraulic but that is a huge safety concern. Spinning pto shafts and rope dont go together that well.