Shipping Container for Olive Mill

[rox]

Seems like the cost of setting this kind of machinery up and then doing it all over again would be more than the difference of doing the final building first. How about putting in the concrete pad with the drainage and power, and throwing a tarp over the machine untill you can get the building around it? Gotta be a better way than to waste all the installation labor and supplies.

No can do see regualtions in prior post.

 

[rox]

Hi Rox,
The more I think about it, the better it sounds. I知 actually changing my mind on the container approach and thinking that it just might be the best way to go. I don稚 even think you should consider it a three year, temporary solution. You could easily add on to the container, or buy another and connect them if and when you need more space. I would build and plan for it to be a permanent part of your operation. Adding a nice roof and covering it in rock to pretty it up would be allot cheaper than building another building.

Eddie

Well it is about time Eddie!! I hope it doesn't take Steph this long to "warm" you up at night. Geesh....

 

[CurlyDave]

Rox:

More questions.

I don't see the DLE unit on the Schematic. Does it need to have a sloped floor under it, or can it be on a flat floor?

What are the dimensions of the floor scale?

I see an oil transfer pump. Is this used to transfer the oil from the centrifuge to the decanter, or can it also be used to pump oil out of the decanter and into the oil drums?

Could you double-check the handwritten notes on the Schematic? What they have labeled as the electric control panel, is noted as the "Florentine Vase" which you are not going to use. What they label as the static glass separator (decanter?) is hand labeled as control panel.

I am trying to think about material handling. There is more to this than just fitting all the equipment into the container. The olives and oil have to move in and out smoothly.

 

[rox]

Jinman:

Could you post the translation? For some reason I can't get the translation tools to work. Okay I attached it below.

Rox:

A big question I haven't seen covered before. What is the capacity of this mill? How many kilos of olives per hour does it process. How many liters of oil per hour come out?

Dave If you look at the flow chart previusly previously posted I included a pic of a typical olive crate, it is yellow. Our mill will process about 240 of these crates per day. It will press 200 kilos per hour. The big question is the yield of the olives. Some olives yield 23% of their weight in oil, some 14% of their weight in oil. Figure on the attached pic we will produce 4 of the tanks plastic you see shown. I laid a broom on a tank to give you perspective. I hope everyone can see and appreciate how clean our olive work room is. It is spotless, we want to work in a clean environment!

 

[rox]

Eddie Walker:
This will allow you to slope the floor from side to side. A one inch slope over the 8ft width of the floor is now pretty simple to do with mortar or whatever is available there. I would contact your tile guy and ask them what they use when they do a shower floor.

I think that is the way we are inclined to go. Get a channel drain made out of Stainless Steel, stick it where we want it, and it does not have to be in the exact center, and leave it to the tile guy. It is not that much of a slope to direct the fluids. Mainly we will be using squeegees on the floor. The regs do not specify a certain slope they just say it should be bowl shaped to catch the drippings. I am more inclided to go to jsut one output drain, cont' see the need of more than that. If you thinks so please write back and say why. The tile guy may be our nephew who just completed his appreticship, we'll see.

 

[tommu56]

Rox I've seen a lot of suggestions so far

I didn't read the whole thread have you looked at some thing like this on a concrete slab. that has the appropriate drainage built in.

ClearSpan Pony Wall Poly Building 20'W x 16'H x 36'L - FarmTek

or

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/Retail-Mart-Greenhousehttp://www.greenhousemegastore.com/images/Garden-grower-JR-dd.jpg

or

Summit Structures ? Sports & Athletic Facilities

tom

 

[rox]

Rox, I read all those requirements using Google Translator and they are exactly as you say. I certainly understand your challenges. I'll have more later, but here is a product I think you should consider. This product is strong enough to be used on the inside of auto carwash walls. It would meet all your code requirements and also be easy to maintain and clean.

Duro-therm Panels

I'm also thinking of other ideas like fold-down doors on the side of the container that allow access as ramps and also provide more open area inside. If you had a fold-down door you could add a canvas canopy (fold-out) above and maybe curtain walls. You could enter or exit the container by these ramped enclosures. Raising and lowering the ramps could be accomplished with ropes, pulleys, and counterweights for ease of operation (not drawn). They would also improve your ventilation tremendously.

Jinman, unless the container company can get me some kind of a deal we prolly won't get fancy enough to do fold down doors, although I agree with you that it would be ideal. Kind of like an aircraft that lowers a cargo door. As much as I would truly love a roll up door both now and for in the future I'll prolly have to yield on it. We'll see how the olive oil sales go. I think we will have to build dirt/gravel ramps or if we can find some steel plate cheap those would be better. If we insualte at all we will most likely go with the aluminum bubble wrap and claim the steel wall of the container is the fire break. We'll have to see how that goes with the permit guy. He is not to far from us so we will be visiting him with all our plans before we buy.

 

[rox]

Tommu56, many thanks for your efforts. Good idea but not gonna meet the regulations.

 

[rox]

Rox:

The container dilemma and redesign!

So far I've heard whatever is used has to have fireproof floors and walls and not be considered a permanent structure. It is also understood that the container idea is fixed!

So, assuming the container is so designed to be supported on the four corners and has a metal floor lined with plywood and no idea of the walls other than metal on the outside.

Locate the site. Install a piling for each corner. Cut out the floor area for the press and pour a cement foundation for it. Skin the floor using concrete and put the proper slopes and drains on it. [Not very hard to do and the container should be able to support this with no problem.. Just use ordinary high strength concrete with no rebar or wire mesh for cost purposes. Cut out the doors and other access points as required and use the cutouts for fabricating the new doors. Have the doors open out wards so they do not constrict inside space. Build dirt ramps for the access doors. Cheap.
Install several ventilating fans high up one at each end. Bathroom fan would work.Install one pressurizing fan at floor level in the center of the container. Again bathroom fan. If the walls require fireproofing use a stucco or cement slap on and trowel smooth product. Don't worry about insulation.

Getting services in should be no problem as torches work on metal quite well.

Keep it as simple as possible and all will work out!

Thank yoou for your support Egon!! There are things we are still figuring out like the floor and the drains so we are not home yet, but I do agree with you, I think it is doable.

 

[rox]

Rox:

More questions.

I don't see the DLE unit on the Schematic. Does it need to have a sloped floor under it, or can it be on a flat floor?

Actually i think the press part flat and the rest sloped just after the press installation. I think the press guys installing are going to have trouble if it is not flat. The DLE is about 2 1/2 feet by 2 1/2 feet. I think it is gonna wanna be level.

What are the dimensions of the floor scale?
This is the most PIA of the whole operation and if there is any way I can afford it I would want to get 2 floor scales. They are a little bigger than an European pallet which is 100cm by 120cm. I would say they are about 130cm by 130 cm. With the pinch point we are going to have to move something on the other side of the pinch point every time, either intake or output. I think we might jsut get a hand pallet jack with a scale built inside for the output.

I see an oil transfer pump. Is this used to transfer the oil from the centrifuge to the decanter, or can it also be used to pump oil out of the decanter and into the oil drums? I am thinking the oil transfer pump you see is to pump the oil to the Florintene vase which we are eliminating in favor of a decanter. This is not shown on the schematic. This will be built and attached by the mill manfucaturer. It will be a straight line from the centrifuge to the decanter and I don't know if there will be a pump or not. The schmatic shows kind of a wide confuration with an olive oil collection tank off the centrifuge with the Florentine vase a distance from that. We believe our configuration with a decanter is going to be a straight line DLE (which is mobile) -> Hopper/Crusher -> maloxer -> Centrifuge -> Decanter.

Could you double-check the handwritten notes on the Schematic? What they have labeled as the electric control panel, is noted as the "Florentine Vase" which you are not going to use. What they label as the static glass separator (decanter?) is hand labeled as control panel. Yeah I do think your right! I hand lebels those wrong.

I am trying to think about material handling. There is more to this than just fitting all the equipment into the container. The olives and oil have to move in and out smoothly.

So true Dave, so true. If you think about rasing the container up that just means we have to lift up crates of heavy olives (a ramp would help but it is still elevation from ground level) get them weighed and if we don't have storage inside the container on the intake side, move them back outside again. Press the olives, weigh the output again and then lower the oil in contaienrs back down to ground level. The closer I can get to ground level the more I'll like it. But then you have issues of having enough space to work under the container to do your hookups which is why Jinmans suggestion of side RV type hookups is so attractive.

 

[EdC]

Rox

I took some time to read the specifications you so kindly translated. My French is 30 years old and was not the good to begin with.

The aluminum insulation I am familiar with will not hold up to pressure washing at all. Also, I do not think it is fire resistant. If memory serves it is a Mylar plastic so would probably burn.

Earlier you had mentioned that you wanted to put windows and doors in the sides of the container and wondered about window frames and attaching things to the walls. The metal sheets the boxes are covered with are really thin, maybe 3 mm thick or so. They get what strength they have from the corrugations in the metal. Windows and doors would have to have a frame wide enough to cover those corrugations. The company that I dealt with, attached electrical conduit to the wall using pop rivets on the low areas (where people could run into them) because screws would stick out and be a hazard.

 

[jinman]

Jinman:

Could you post the translation? For some reason I can't get the translation tools to work.

Dave sorry, I had to go out and make some measurements for my own shop and then I had an appointment with Tony and Brett. Brett came out the winner of course.

Anyhow, I see that Rox has provided you with the translation. That Google Translate tool is very slick on my system and works perfectly. I'm very impressed.

Rox, you haven't mentioned variances to the regulations. Are they ever allowed? Would they be likely to allow a variance if you specified how long you would use the temporary setup before going to a permanent mill? Just a thought. . . .

 

[6sunset6]

Rox, Don't forget about maintaining the equipment . Seasonal use for 3-4 years may not require anything major but one never knows. You may have to pull the units out of the container to do any major work. Make sure you can do that.

 

[CurlyDave]

Rox:

Here is my first cut at a layout for your mill.

I would elevate the container about 2 feet above grade, which means you can have a loading dock at each end, one for receiving olives in crates and one for shipping out oil in drums. You may want to use the ramps I show for your own olives, but if you process anyone else's they will probably bring them in by truck, and the loading dock will be very useful here. If you bring yours in by fork lift, the dock will work nicely.

I would put radiant heaters in each end, but not heat the process section where you would have four windows, two on each side to provide ventilation.

The most controversial part of this is that I would put two partitions, with doors, in the container. The partitions allow you to heat the ends of the container without losing all your heat through the open windows in the process section. The doors, and possibly the partitions, should have windows, so you can see what is happening in the process section without actually going in.

Olives are received and weighed on the left, and dumped into the DLE unit which washes them and augers them up, through the partition (I can show you how to do this easily later) and dumps them into the hopper of the crusher/kneader. On to the centrifuge and then the decanter. Oil comes out of the decanter in a pipe which goes through the partition, and a food-grade hose, with a shut off nozzle, is used to fill the drums. You will probably need a special filling station to contain spills, which I have not shown.

The finished oil is stored in the heated section at the output end. Again you have both a loading dock for putting drums into a truck or a ramp to pull them on carts.

The elevated container also allows access to the underside of the container for maintenance of the drain in the process section.

Let me know what you think of the concept before I add in details.

The only thing I am having trouble with is that I think the floors in the receiving and shipping ends should be flat, while the floor in the process section must be bowl shaped. This means there might be a tripping hazard going through the door, although I think we can minimize it. Maybe some of the guys in the trades can help out there.

 

[EddieWalker]

Dave,

With the container elevated, it will be allot easier to get a drain in the floor. With her minimal requirements for that pitch, and wood on the floor, I'd look into renting a wood floor belt sander. I've only used them a few times, so I'm not sure of the exact name. I just tell them at the rental yard what I want. It's a giant belt sander that is used for refinishing wood floors. With some aggressive grit paper, like 40, it should sand out a bowl in the floor in just a few hours. Lots of dust, and probably not perfect, but a simple enough task.

Eddie

 

[CurlyDave]

Dave,

With the container elevated, it will be allot easier to get a drain in the floor. With her minimal requirements for that pitch, and wood on the floor, I'd look into renting a wood floor belt sander. I've only used them a few times, so I'm not sure of the exact name. I just tell them at the rental yard what I want. It's a giant belt sander that is used for refinishing wood floors. With some aggressive grit paper, like 40, it should sand out a bowl in the floor in just a few hours. Lots of dust, and probably not perfect, but a simple enough task.

Eddie

The drain and the loading docks were the primary reasons I am thinking of elevating the container. With all the solids that are going to be washed down there, I think being able to get to it for maintenance is necessary. Especially when your season is only 6 weeks long. Any delay in fixing a blockage is going to be costly.


I am thinking the drain should be in the center of the floor -- put it at the side and you are constantly walking in it, in the center the machinery straddles it, and you can't walk there because of the machinery.

The size and shape depends on whether vinyl is OK. If it is, either your idea of sanding, or just splitting sheets of plywood and just using sleepers under them will work. Make the drain wide enough so that a standard shower drain can be installed in the flat bottom. The exact design awaits clarification from rox on the workability of vinyl.

 

[jinman]

Dave, I'm thinking the floor material will be dependent on what are the definitions of waterproof and fireproof according to local regulations. Of course, center drains will work, but I'm thinking the materials to be drained will not drop directly below the machines, but in the spaces between/beside them. I'm betting that in the open mills, drains are not located below machines, but in central open areas because working to get materials in a drain below the machines could be difficult. What do you think?

I like your design for segmenting the inside of the container and also raising it so that you can build an earthen ramp or just back a trailer up to the container like a loading dock and move the materials in/out without having to lift them, or only slightly lift them.

For doors, the simplest might be a swing door, but that takes up space. A pocket door or sliding door suspended from a rail could slide out of the way down the wall and not take up extra space; maybe even an accordian door.

I found this specification for a container online. It doesn't have illustrations, but there is a lot of useful info here for details of container constuction. For example, the plywood flloor is treated and 28mm (1.10") thick. Other materials and strength specifications are also relevent to this topic.

Container Specs

 

[doxford jim]

For the main floor drain, possibly a satellite dish might work - set in concrete of course, with that section of the wooden floor removed. Easily maintained, repaired and painted. Connection to drain pipes would be easily achieved if the container is off the ground say 2ft. Being elevated allows for good and easy maintenance to all that might be run under the container. If a perimeter skirt is built around the base, weather and cold can be kept at bay and still allow easy access via a couple of small doors.

Just a thought - I can't better the other obvious good points already mentioned.

Sure hope it all comes together nicely for you.

Jim

 

[charlz]

While the theme here is short term cost savings it appears all of this material and work will be a throw-away in the long run. Exception being the re-use of the container. I would try to build this such that more of it is re-used and built upon for the future building.

The key building code seems to be the floor.

Here is what I would look at:

Plan on pouring a pad for the container with the sloped floor,drain etc. with knee walls/whatever you call them around the pad. Cut the floor completely out of the container and place it on the knee walls. The walls are high enough to raise the container to make head room for roll-up doors of sufficient height.

The positioning and slope of this pad is such that it can become the 'center section' of the future building. Remove the lengthwise knee walls, pour a new pad and footings/knee walls to the left and a new pad and footings/knee walls to the right and voila! you have the footprint of the 'end state' building. At that time the container is moved to a new concrete pad somewhere on the property and used for storage. Original swinging doors are replaced and the rollup doors, lights etc are used in the new building framed up on the expanded pad.

The concrete is going to add to the short-term cost but with the floor requirement and the ability re-use it in the future I think it would be worth it.

 

[charlz]

Now that I am at the house and can look at the pics easier I have to wonder if those 'swimming pool' blocks couldn't be used to make the 'knee walls' in my proposal further cutting down on the costs?

If I read the drawing right one of the hoppers the olives go into is 1.46m or about 4.5 feet high. This seems to be the press and not the 'DLE'. Is the 'DLE' hopper the same height? How will olives be loaded into the hopper(s)?