Satoh 650G dilemma

[sruman]

Well, I'm experiencing an overheating problem. Here's what I've done so far, but not sure what the next steps are......

It seems that my tractor will overheat. I noticed a trend that it overheats more when using the loader or PTO unit (bush hog).
I took off the return hose to the radiator, turned the tractor over and fluids came gushing out (water pump is okay).
Next I flushed the radiator, and refilled 50/50 coolant/water. Ran the loader for about 30 minutes, turned off the unit, and it was boiling over.
Next step was to check the thermostat, although I've ran before without using hydraulics much and it didn't overheat. Do you think it is only partially opening (thermo)?

 

[oliver28472]

Are the fins in the radiator clear? If so you could try flushing it. Going to do mine today. I use distilled water and dishwashing soap, the kind you use in the dishwasher, not liquid dawn etc. After that try the thermostat. On your loader controls, the sticks are returned to neutral right? If none of that works, pull the radiator and take it to the radiator shop.

 

[sruman]

Yep, fan is in good shape, radiator is clean (I blew it out with air hose, although it was already pretty clean). Belts are new, and tight.
I know that it's not rocket science, as the cooling system is pretty basic, but before I start buying parts, I'm hoping to test and pin point the issue.
Thermostat seems the likely target.

In case anyone was wondering, when running, no smoke at all, runs smooths at all times. Just overheats when I use hydraulics (so it seems).

Where is the thermostat located on these units? It looks like it could be on the top return hose housing? Thoughts?

 

[sruman]

ok. Tested the thermostat on the stove, and it opened up. I'm going to replace now that I have it apart. What else could cause and overheating issue. Pump works. Thermostat tested ok. Radiator is clean. I'm baffled.

Since I know next to nothing about hydraulics, I had the level in the "till" position while using the loader. Would that matter?????

Also, the radiator is painted blue, all of it, even the fins where the air is pulled through. Would that impact the cooling??

I'm know I'm reaching, but I don't know what else it could be.

any thoughts out there???????

 

[oliver28472]

It could be that the flues in the radiator are clogged. May need to be rodded out by a rad shop. I think they take the top and bottom off to do that. If it comes to having it re-cored, tell them to leave off the paint. I've been having more overheating on my little D1450FD. I am in the process of installing a gauge. Then I'm going to flush it. I found another port to put the sensor in for the gauge so I will have a light and a gauge. I change my coolant at least every other year and it looks new.

 

[sruman]

Thanks. I think installing a guage will help with further damage resulting from overheating. Great idea.

I'm still mulling over why it is overheating in the first place. Is there another way to see if a head gasket is blown other than a pressure test? I've been reading and that is the only other explanation.

Can you retro the 650G's with a bigger radiator? The stock one does seem awfully small. Just a thought.

 

[sruman]

You know, I did remove the radiator tonight, took it to the garden hose, and there was a fair amount of pressure spraying back out where the hose was hooked up (could this be clogged flues??). Not sure how quickly is should flow through the radiator, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[284 International]

Your radiator should pass the flow of a garden hose without backing up. A shop should be able to rod it out for you, which is the correct fix. Some may recommend a radiator flush, but it's not going to dissolve all the deposits, plus it only works where it can flow. Just take it to a shop for a rodding and be done with it. Good luck, sounds like you've figured this one out.

 

[oliver28472]

Right, don't put it back on without a trip to the shop.

 

[sruman]

This is a cool site. Thanks for you help.
Radiator will be fixed prior to getting the ole girl fired back up.

 

[sruman]

I had the radiator re-cored, but still getting light on the dash for water temperature warning.

Could this be caused by the sending unit? Possibly bad? Just to make sure I have the right one, is it located just under the carb, on the right side of the engine? There are water lines coming from the water pump that seems to go into this part, and I assume that this is the sending unit, is this right?

 

[sruman]

Ok. Need a few points of clarification.

1. What thermostat should be in the engine? 180?
2. Are there different sending units? Anyone have a part #?
3. Are there two hydraulic filling caps; one under the seat, and one by the gear shift?

 

[knothead541]

The thermostat part# NAPA 323-180.
Don't have a sending unit #.
The hydraulic oil (JD 303 or equal) is filled under the seat but the cap by the gear shift is for gear oil (80w-90) in the transmission. Fill level is determined by a plastic cap on the left side of the tranny by the foot rest.

 

[rallen1]

Does anyone know the radiator cap pressure rating for this tractor? Mine is now in multiple pieces. It still holds pressure, but I would like to replace it before it doesn't!

Robert

 

[sruman]

So, if I understand you correctly, I should drain the hydraulic/tranny universal fluid from the case, refill with 80-90 gear oil, until it starts to come out of the plug hole on the left side by the foot rest? Then add a tad more to top the ole girl off.

 

[sruman]

Sorry for the extra reply (see above), but if anyone know the Napa part for the temp sensor/sending unit, it would be greatly appreciated. I confirmed that mine is bad, since when I start the tractor cold, if flickers on the tach on and off. I'm going to replace, but can't find the proper exchange part #.
I'm heading to advanced auto, and auto zone with the used part and see if they can match it up. Hopefully, someone will give me a part # before then.

Thanks in advance. This is a very helpful forum. One of the best.

 

[sruman]

ok. Re-cored the radiator, replaced the temp sending unit, and my light is still coming on. I'm not a smart man, but if there is a 180 degree thermostat in the tractor, and the standard temp sensor is a 180 degree sensor, wouldn't the light stay on? Something's not making sense with this logic.
I saw on NAPA part site, that there are two thermostat's for that engine: a 160 and a 180. I would assume that the thermostat should be slightly lower temp than what the sensor is rated at. Unless there some other logic behind it.

any insight? Am I making sense?

 

[mit]

does the light ever go off? is the sender switch working ? is there flow in the radiator? is the engine running too lean?

 

[sruman]

The light flickered before replacing the sending unit. If I pull the wire of the sending unit, it goes out completely, and doesn't come back on. So it appears there is not a short in the wire.
I cannot see into the radiator to see if there is flow. I did test the water pump by taking off the top hose and there was definitely water flow.
Is it possible that there is something clogged in the engine block? Is there anyway to test this? Or is it highly unlikely that's an issue?
One thing worth noting is that when they re-cored the radiator, the mechanic said there was a good bit of corrosion/blockage in the original radiator core.
I'm running out of ideas at this point.

Also, not sure about running "lean". Engine purrs like a kitten, no smoke at any time. Just don't want to risk anything until I get this cooling thing taken care of.

 

[sruman]

Okay. Have the Satoh 650G tore apart again. Not sure what's up. I also pulled the water pump off to make sure that it is working and it appears in good shape: Impeller spins, fins are all the same, hard to imagine that these go bad, but it was worth looking at.

Here's a question though, try and follow pertaining to the temp sensor issue:

there to two hoses: one from the water pump, and another from the thermostat housing, that run to a tee. From there, the coolant would travel through an intake through the engine ( I would suspect that this is what is circulating the coolant before the thermo opens up). Now, at this intake mentioned above, is where the temp sensor is located.

Is that the proper location for this to be? Was it modified to be here, or is this correct location?

Are there any specs to the water pump (since it is off) that I need to be aware of? If there is, please let me know, and I'll replace before putting it back together.

Other than this, I'm going to replace with a brand new thermostat, just in case. Would it hurt to put in a 160 or 170 degree vs the 180 spec?